Carrer advice : Java and Mainframe...

[Mirlitone]

Hi there,

i just graduated in C.S. i've carried out internship in JAVA J2SE
Swing.
As i'm looking for a job, a firm told me about how different J2SE is
from J2EE, Telling me that they are not abble to fill a J2EE spot with
a J2SE newcomer.
On top of that, they offered me an opportunity in mainframe dev, with
cobol, PL/I and stuff.

I've a few questions :

1/ do you think that i can write J2EE on my resume instead of J2SE,
learning J2EE all alone in my room for a couple of week ?
2/ Have you ever heard about JAVA on Mainframes ? Do you think that
being experienced in mainframe can make me get a developper position on
this technology ?
3/ Is developping JAVA on mainframe different from JAVA on PC ?

Thanks for your insights.

 

[Dag Sunde]

Hi there,

i just graduated in C.S. i've carried out internship in JAVA J2SE
Swing.
As i'm looking for a job, a firm told me about how different J2SE is
from J2EE, Telling me that they are not abble to fill a J2EE spot with
a J2SE newcomer.
On top of that, they offered me an opportunity in mainframe dev, with
cobol, PL/I and stuff.

I've a few questions :

1/ do you think that i can write J2EE on my resume instead of J2SE,
learning J2EE all alone in my room for a couple of week ?

No!

Note that J2EE is not about a different language, but a formalized framework
and rule-set for development, and a blueprint of what the different servers
etc. belonging to that framework have to support. Ie. Enterprise Beans,
Servlet
containers, etc...

But it is so huge a ruleset/framework that there is no way you can absorb
it well enough to actually do paid work with it in a couple of weeks.

2/ Have you ever heard about JAVA on Mainframes ? Do you think that
being experienced in mainframe can make me get a developper position on
this technology ?

According to yourself they didn't offer you to use Java on a Mainframe, they
offered you to use "Cobol, PL/I and stuff"...

3/ Is developping JAVA on mainframe different from JAVA on PC ?

I would guess its the same difference a between programming Java on Linux
and Windows.

That said, I don't even know if you get Java on Mainframes...

 

[Thomas Schodt]

2/ Have you ever heard about JAVA on Mainframes ? Do you think that
being experienced in mainframe can make me get a developper position on
this technology ?

Define mainframe.
I suspect IBM AIX can do Java.
I know HP (was Compaq, was Tandem) NSK systems can do Java.

3/ Is developping JAVA on mainframe different from JAVA on PC ?

Java is Java.
On a PC, you will often be doing GUI stuff, on large systems you are
more likely to be doing database and/or comms.

 

[James Yong]

Hi there,

i just graduated in C.S. i've carried out internship in JAVA J2SE
Swing.
As i'm looking for a job, a firm told me about how different J2SE is
from J2EE, Telling me that they are not abble to fill a J2EE spot with
a J2SE newcomer.
On top of that, they offered me an opportunity in mainframe dev, with
cobol, PL/I and stuff.

I've a few questions :

1/ do you think that i can write J2EE on my resume instead of J2SE,
learning J2EE all alone in my room for a couple of week ?
2/ Have you ever heard about JAVA on Mainframes ? Do you think that
being experienced in mainframe can make me get a developper position on
this technology ?
3/ Is developping JAVA on mainframe different from JAVA on PC ?

Thanks for your insights.

Hi Mirlitone,

First, you don't know about J2EE. One option you can choose is to take up
the mainframe job while honing your J2EE skills. When the right time comes,
it will be easier for you to make the switch to J2EE in the company.
When that time comes, your experience will be rather broadbased.

Regards,
James Yong

 

[Chris Smith]

I've a few questions :

And I'll answer one of them.

1/ do you think that i can write J2EE on my resume instead of J2SE,
learning J2EE all alone in my room for a couple of week ?

It depends. It's very sad that this company has told you that the job
requires "J2EE" and yet they think they've actually said something
meaningful. If you can find out more about the skills required, then
you might be able to make a plan.

Developing with servlets and JSPs could certainly be picked up in a few
weeks if you're rather swift at learning new technologies. Developing
with EJBs almost certainly can't.

Unfortunately, it looks from where I'm standing that the company isn't
interested in finding out if you can pick up the necessary skills to
work on their project in a couple weeks. Even if you learn all of the
J2EE technologies like the back of your hand (which is definitely not a
two-week job, if its even possible), you will probably still have a hard
time convincing these people... just because you're the same person who
showed up two weeks ago not understanding what J2EE is.

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation

 

[Rogan Dawes]

Define mainframe.

For most people, "mainframe" refers to IBM S/390 class systems.

I suspect IBM AIX can do Java.

AIX is not "mainframe". AIX is Unix.

I know HP (was Compaq, was Tandem) NSK systems can do Java.



Java is Java.
On a PC, you will often be doing GUI stuff, on large systems you are
more likely to be doing database and/or comms.

Depending on the environment within the mainframe, you may have to learn
a bunch of new concepts, typically to do with file organisation, but
possibly also dealing with authorisation to perform various actions.

I suspect that Java on the mainframe runs within a "Unix-like" (Posix)
environment, so any Unix experience that you have would translate fine
to Java in the Posix env.

However, as a different poster pointed out, the job offer was not Java
on mainframe, but rather Cobol/PL1, etc . . .

To the original poster: Don't get your hopes up . . . .

Rogan

 

[HalcyonWild]

As i'm looking for a job, a firm told me about how different J2SE is
from J2EE, Telling me that they are not abble to fill a J2EE spot with
a J2SE newcomer.
On top of that, they offered me an opportunity in mainframe dev, with
cobol, PL/I and stuff.

I suppose they actually have a mainframe opening which they are not
able to fill, and they want to force you into it. . Apply with other
companies.
In fact knowing J2SE means you are closer to J2EE than Mainframes. When
they say COBOL, you have no chance of Java. YOu can learn j2ee at home,
but interviewers are smart enough to figure out how much you have
actually worked on J2ee. They will know you have knowledge, but will
figure out how much you have actually worked on it professionally.
Stick to your core skills at the beginning of your career. Master one
technology. Later you can start acquiring other skills. This is my
viewpoint though. It isnt easy (not impossible though) to shift to J2ee
2 years down the line working on COBOL and PL/1 on mainframes. My
suggestion would be Java. (Disclaimer) If you are interested in working
on Mainframes, go ahead. Many obituaries have been written for
mainframes, but they are still around. Talk to some programmers in
person and take an informed decision. All the very best.

 

[Ian Pilcher]

On top of that, they offered me an opportunity in mainframe dev, with
cobol, PL/I and stuff.

I recommend that you consider this seriously. Most large businesses
still run a lot of their critical processes on mainframe systems. The
people maintaining these systems and applications are approaching
retirement age, so these could be some very valuable skills.

Note, however, that COBOL, PL/1, and the mainframe environment in
general are *very* different from C, Java, UNIX, and the other
technologies that you've probably been exposed to thus far.

1/ do you think that i can write J2EE on my resume instead of J2SE,
learning J2EE all alone in my room for a couple of week ?

Absolutely not.

2/ Have you ever heard about JAVA on Mainframes ? Do you think that
being experienced in mainframe can make me get a developper position on
this technology ?

Mainframes (OS/390 and z/OS) have had JVMs for years. Java can also
run on Linux on zSeries hardware.

If you're job involves maintaining older applications written in PL/1
and COBOL, you're going to have to make the effort to maintain and
expand your Java skills. The combination of the two skill sets should
position you very well.

3/ Is developping JAVA on mainframe different from JAVA on PC ?

I don't think that anyone "develops Java on mainframes". You would
generally do the development on a Windows or Linux PC and then deploy
the application to the mainframe. From what you wrote, however, the
position you're being offered does not involve Java development.

HTH

 

[Roedy Green]

1/ do you think that i can write J2EE on my resume instead of J2SE,
learning J2EE all alone in my room for a couple of week ?

Absolutely not. It is a much bigger task than learning J2SE.

Further J2EE has many pieces. Very few people are familiar with all of
it.

See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/j2ee.html

 

[Roedy Green]

However, as a different poster pointed out, the job offer was not Java
on mainframe, but rather Cobol/PL1, etc . . .

On the other hand, getting your foot in the door is 90% of the battle.
I remember one keypunch "girl" who used to correct the syntax errors
of the programmers, handing back both the corrected cards and the
cards as requested. This got her noticed and she became a programmer.

 

[Roedy Green]

just because you're the same person who
showed up two weeks ago not understanding what J2EE is.

The key is to show samples of your work. Happily you an do a
tremendous lot of experimenting on a very tight budget.

 

[Roedy Green]

If you're job involves maintaining older applications written in PL/1
and COBOL, you're going to have to make the effort to maintain and
expand your Java skills. The combination of the two skill sets should
position you very well.

The company will always be asking itself -- how much longer can we go
on the legacy system before a total rewrite. What they need is a
painless way to gradually retire the old code. The people who can do
that have to be expert in both the old and new.

 

[zero]

The company will always be asking itself -- how much longer can we go
on the legacy system before a total rewrite. What they need is a
painless way to gradually retire the old code. The people who can do
that have to be expert in both the old and new.

Most companies have invested thousands of man hours in COBOL code, and are
not going to throw that away any time soon. Instead, they are looking for
COBOL & mainframe programmers to continue developping the back-end, and use
Java, VB & .NET for the presentation layer.

That's my experience anyway.