change your password day

Discussion in 'Java' started by Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    The Australian government recommends changing your passwords at least
    twice a year. They even have a "change your password day", I think in
    early June. Does anyone know exactly when it is, how you compute when
    it is, and when it was first "celebrated"?

    Oddly I could not discover this with 30 minutes of Googling and
    sending an email to the government department.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "The telephone is the greatest single enemy of scholarship; for what our intellectual forebears used to inscribe in ink now goes once over a wire into permanent oblivion."
    ~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (born: 1941-09-10 died: 2002-05-02 at age: 60)
    Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2009
    #1
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  2. Roedy Green

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > The Australian government recommends changing your passwords at least
    > twice a year. They even have a "change your password day", I think in
    > early June. Does anyone know exactly when it is, how you compute when
    > it is, and when it was first "celebrated"?
    >
    > Oddly I could not discover this with 30 minutes of Googling and
    > sending an email to the government department.


    And this is relevant for Java because ??

    Arne

    PS: http://www.minister.dbcde.gov.au/media/speeches/2009/020
    Arne Vajhøj, Sep 15, 2009
    #2
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  3. Roedy Green wrote:
    > The Australian government recommends changing your passwords at least
    > twice a year. They even have a "change your password day", I think in
    > early June. Does anyone know exactly when it is, how you compute when
    > it is, and when it was first "celebrated"?


    There's a website that describes all this, but I can't seem to log into it.
    Mike Schilling, Sep 15, 2009
    #3
  4. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:46:50 -0700, "Mike Schilling"
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    someone who said :

    >
    >There's a website that describes all this, but I can't seem to log into it.


    I found that. I wrote to them. Seems for a government website to
    require a secret password to get public info.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "The telephone is the greatest single enemy of scholarship; for what our intellectual forebears used to inscribe in ink now goes once over a wire into permanent oblivion."
    ~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (born: 1941-09-10 died: 2002-05-02 at age: 60)
    Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2009
    #4
  5. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:40:32 -0400, Arne Vajhøj <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >And this is relevant for Java because ??


    Because passwords are crucial to the management of Java-based
    websites. They are part of the skillset required of all Java
    programmers.

    They are not off-topic is the same sense cheap blue jeans, knock off
    watches or sex toys are.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "The telephone is the greatest single enemy of scholarship; for what our intellectual forebears used to inscribe in ink now goes once over a wire into permanent oblivion."
    ~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (born: 1941-09-10 died: 2002-05-02 at age: 60)
    Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2009
    #5
  6. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:40:32 -0400, Arne Vajhøj <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >
    >And this is relevant for Java because ??


    If you interpreted the topic guidelines rigidly, you could only
    discuss the Java language and the standard class libraries. 3rd party
    libraries, optional libraries, algorithms, JSP... would all be off
    topic. This would be pretty dull and repetitive.

    Someone could not ask about *.tld files for tags for example because
    they are XML, not Java.

    In my view, newsgroups represent a community that have a common pool
    of knowledge. It makes sense to ask questions from that common pool.
    That view admits a broader permissible range of topics.

    Once a conversation gets going, drift is inevitable. That's where you
    are most likely to learn something new.

    To avoid wasting others's time, I think it important to reveal the
    topic clearly in the title line. Then people can easily avoid the
    topic if it is not of interest. Quite often I bypass posts ON topic.
    The sort of title that deserves mild censure is "I need help" or
    "Program not working". Usually this signifies a clueless newbie who
    has no idea what his problem is.

    I get more steamed than most by ads for completely unrelated good
    posted. Some people seem even more annoyed by mildly off topic posts
    than by these pests.

    There have been days go by without a new topic introduced. Under these
    low traffic conditions, I don't think it necessary to be rigid. I
    notice the more specific groups have withered away, and people are
    asking their JDBC questions for example in comp.lang.java.programmer.
    If the traffic increases, then it would be appropriate to push that
    stuff back into its own newsgroup and tighten up topic specificity.

    I also think that people who post a lot should be given more latitude.
    It would not make sense to join some other newsgroup where they are
    unknown and ignorable just to ask one question, when they strongly
    suspect someone in their home territory knows the answer. If they
    have never posted before, and they ask an off-topic question, best to
    send them to a different group where they can become established and
    ask similar questions.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "The telephone is the greatest single enemy of scholarship; for what our intellectual forebears used to inscribe in ink now goes once over a wire into permanent oblivion."
    ~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (born: 1941-09-10 died: 2002-05-02 at age: 60)
    Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2009
    #6
  7. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:04:29 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    someone who said :

    >
    >Here's a hint: if you on a regular basis find yourself having to defend
    >posts described by others as "off-topic" (and you do), you really should
    >consider that your idea of "on-topic" really isn't the same as the rest of
    >the community's, and that you should try harder to keep your off-topic
    >impulses under control.


    You could either plonk me or delete those threads. You don't. Ask
    yourself why.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "The telephone is the greatest single enemy of scholarship; for what our intellectual forebears used to inscribe in ink now goes once over a wire into permanent oblivion."
    ~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (born: 1941-09-10 died: 2002-05-02 at age: 60)
    Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2009
    #7
  8. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:04:29 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    someone who said :

    >
    >The same thing could be said for paying your bills on time. That doesn't
    >make it relevant for the Java programming newsgroup.


    I get the impression your motive in debate is primarily putting others
    down. The topic is almost irrelevant.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "The telephone is the greatest single enemy of scholarship; for what our intellectual forebears used to inscribe in ink now goes once over a wire into permanent oblivion."
    ~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (born: 1941-09-10 died: 2002-05-02 at age: 60)
    Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2009
    #8
  9. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:39:14 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    someone who said :

    >> yourself why.

    >
    >I already explained that: killfiling you doesn't get rid of the threads,
    >because unlike the regular spam, people still reply to your posts.


    does not your newsreader let you mark a thread as "ignore"?
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "The telephone is the greatest single enemy of scholarship; for what our intellectual forebears used to inscribe in ink now goes once over a wire into permanent oblivion."
    ~ Dr. Stephen Jay Gould (born: 1941-09-10 died: 2002-05-02 at age: 60)
    Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2009
    #9
  10. On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:17:29 +0100, Sabine Dinis Blochberger wrote:

    > On that note, an article I find interesting:
    > <http://www.baekdal.com/articles/Usability/password-security-usability>
    >
    > Too bad alot of places don't allow spaces.
    >

    Good article. Thanks for posting the link.

    When it comes to stopping automated cracks, I always liked a trick that
    DEC's VMS used: after three consecutive failed login attempts the login
    program stopped trying to apply the username/password combo but went on
    prompting - this way the would be cracker never knew he was getting
    nowhere and, because this was in the dial-up era, ended up with a big
    phone bill as well. The account remained locked out until the sysadmin
    reset it.


    --
    martin@ | Martin Gregorie
    gregorie. | Essex, UK
    org |
    Martin Gregorie, Sep 15, 2009
    #10
  11. Roedy Green

    Dave Searles Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:04:29 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
    > <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    > someone who said :
    >
    >> The same thing could be said for paying your bills on time. That doesn't
    >> make it relevant for the Java programming newsgroup.

    >
    > I get the impression your motive in debate is primarily putting others
    > down. The topic is almost irrelevant.


    I concur.
    Dave Searles, Sep 15, 2009
    #11
  12. Roedy Green

    Wojtek Guest

    Roedy Green wrote :
    > In my view, newsgroups represent a community that have a common pool
    > of knowledge. It makes sense to ask questions from that common pool.
    > That view admits a broader permissible range of topics.


    Except that this is not a pub. It is more like a "Birds of a Feather"
    discussion.

    In a pub the topics can be far ranging. In BoF the topics are held to
    the BoF purpose.

    Besides, you have a ready made, high traffic (I think) site for things
    like this, where YOU have the option of naming the topic groups.

    Set up a forum, start these types of topics, and enjoy.

    --
    Wojtek :)
    Wojtek, Sep 15, 2009
    #12
  13. Roedy Green

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:40:32 -0400, Arne Vajhøj <>
    > wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >> And this is relevant for Java because ??

    >
    > Because passwords are crucial to the management of Java-based
    > websites.


    Check the name of the group.

    It says PROGRAMMING.

    Best practices for server admins belong in another group.

    Most likely not in a Java group at all, since the problem
    is not specific for Java at all.

    > They are part of the skillset required of all Java
    > programmers.


    So is finding the power-on key on the PC and using a fork
    to put food in the mouth.

    None of the 3 are on topic.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Sep 16, 2009
    #13
  14. Roedy Green

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:40:32 -0400, Arne Vajhøj <>
    > wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
    >> And this is relevant for Java because ??

    >
    > If you interpreted the topic guidelines rigidly, you could only
    > discuss the Java language and the standard class libraries. 3rd party
    > libraries, optional libraries, algorithms, JSP... would all be off
    > topic. This would be pretty dull and repetitive.
    >
    > Someone could not ask about *.tld files for tags for example because
    > they are XML, not Java.


    This is comp.lang.java.programmer not comp.lang.c - if the question
    is about Java programming it is considered on topic - if it involves
    Java programming, then most likely none will complain.

    But password policies are way off topic.

    > In my view, newsgroups represent a community that have a common pool
    > of knowledge. It makes sense to ask questions from that common pool.
    > That view admits a broader permissible range of topics.


    According to your logic then we should only have one big group
    for all usenet.

    We do not. For good reasons. People follow groups because they
    are interested in a specific topic.

    People read cljp because they are interested in Java programming.

    If they were interested in server administration, then they would
    read another group.

    > To avoid wasting others's time, I think it important to reveal the
    > topic clearly in the title line. Then people can easily avoid the
    > topic if it is not of interest.


    Topics should be descriptive.

    But that does not make off topics OK.

    > I get more steamed than most by ads for completely unrelated good
    > posted. Some people seem even more annoyed by mildly off topic posts
    > than by these pests.


    There is no point in replying to regular spam, because the posters
    does not read it.

    You obviously read replies.

    > There have been days go by without a new topic introduced. Under these
    > low traffic conditions, I don't think it necessary to be rigid.


    The traffic in cljp is relative high - around 2000-4000 posts
    per months.

    But even if it had been 2-4 posts per months, then server admin
    posts would still be off topic and should not be posted here.

    > I also think that people who post a lot should be given more latitude.


    You could just as well argue that people that post a lot should
    know what is on and off topic a lot better.

    :)

    Anyway I strongly disagree with the elitarian view that there
    are A and B users and that the rules only applies to B users.

    > It would not make sense to join some other newsgroup where they are
    > unknown and ignorable just to ask one question, when they strongly
    > suspect someone in their home territory knows the answer.


    Given the years of experience several people in cljp has, then
    it is most likely that someone will know the answer to most
    IT questions.

    But it is highly disrespectful to post the questions here anyway.
    They read here to read about Java. If they were interested in
    in seeing questions about server admin, then they would also
    be capable of reading a relevant group.

    > If they
    > have never posted before, and they ask an off-topic question, best to
    > send them to a different group where they can become established and
    > ask similar questions.


    Same for those that have made 10000 posts.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Sep 16, 2009
    #14
  15. Roedy Green

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:04:29 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
    > <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    > someone who said :
    >> Here's a hint: if you on a regular basis find yourself having to defend
    >> posts described by others as "off-topic" (and you do), you really should
    >> consider that your idea of "on-topic" really isn't the same as the rest of
    >> the community's, and that you should try harder to keep your off-topic
    >> impulses under control.

    >
    > You could either plonk me or delete those threads. You don't. Ask
    > yourself why.


    It is a poor defense for off topic posts that readers can just
    use their kill file.

    They should not have to. You should stay on topic.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Sep 16, 2009
    #15
  16. Roedy Green

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:04:29 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
    > <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    > someone who said :
    >> The same thing could be said for paying your bills on time. That doesn't
    >> make it relevant for the Java programming newsgroup.

    >
    > I get the impression your motive in debate is primarily putting others
    > down. The topic is almost irrelevant.


    Actually explaining why server admin questions are off topic in cljp
    is on topic.

    Unlike the question bout server admin.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Sep 16, 2009
    #16
  17. Roedy Green

    David Segall Guest

    Roedy Green <> wrote:

    >The Australian government recommends changing your passwords at least
    >twice a year. They even have a "change your password day", I think in
    >early June. Does anyone know exactly when it is, how you compute when
    >it is, and when it was first "celebrated"?
    >
    >Oddly I could not discover this with 30 minutes of Googling and
    >sending an email to the government department.


    I'm in Australia and had never heard of this "day" but since
    Google takes into account the source of the query finding the
    information you requested was easy for me
    <http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25591599-15306,00.html>.
    The inaugural date was 5 June 2009. You will have to ask Senator
    Conroy's office <http://www.minister.dbcde.gov.au/> or department
    when, or if, the day will be repeated.
    David Segall, Sep 16, 2009
    #17
  18. Roedy Green

    Wojtek Guest

    Roedy Green wrote :
    > I also think that people who post a lot should be given more latitude.


    Group : comp.lang.java.programmer
    Computing time : 00:03:42
    Statistics : from 1991.02.05 to 2009.09.16

    ***** Users with most messages *****
    num| Name | Nb Msg | size | or. | %
    ----|-----------------------------|--------|------------|-----|--------|
    1 | Roedy Green | 10,018 | 19,438,158 | 738 | 6.18%
    |
    2 | Lew | 9,606 | 25,665,679 | 222 | 5.92%
    |
    3 | Arne Vajhøj | 6,136 | 14,326,454 | 19 | 3.78%
    |
    4 | Andrew Thompson | 5,211 | 10,777,113 | 311 | 3.21%
    |
    5 | Oliver Wong | 2,627 | 6,976,008 | 102 | 1.62%
    |
    6 | Patricia Shanahan | 2,284 | 5,944,951 | 30 | 1.41%
    |
    7 | Chris Uppal | 2,259 | 5,381,696 | 95 | 1.39%
    |
    8 | Daniel Pitts | 2,251 | 6,258,700 | 78 | 1.39%
    |
    9 | Mark Space | 1,987 | 4,902,131 | 32 | 1.23%
    |
    10 | Mike Schilling | 1,729 | 4,422,652 | 35 | 1.07%
    |
    11 | Andreas Leitgeb | 1,441 | 3,102,448 | 31 | 0.89%
    |
    12 | Tom Anderson | 1,392 | 4,294,710 | 15 | 0.86%
    |
    13 | Eric Sosman | 1,377 | 4,253,920 | 17 | 0.85%
    |
    14 | | 1,371 | 4,890,108 | 2 | 0.85%
    |
    15 | Knute Johnson | 1,205 | 3,328,341 | 53 | 0.74%
    |
    16 | Joshua Cranmer | 1,170 | 2,995,254 | 17 | 0.72%
    |
    17 | Stefan Ram | 1,145 | 2,746,456 | 75 | 0.71%
    |
    18 | Thomas Hawtin | 1,143 | 2,754,991 | 67 | 0.70%
    |
    19 | Gordon Beaton | 1,061 | 1,882,607 | 32 | 0.65%
    |
    20 | Twisted | 1,035 | 3,807,710 | 28 | 0.64%
    |

    --
    Wojtek :)
    Wojtek, Sep 16, 2009
    #18
  19. Roedy Green

    Wojtek Guest

    Roedy Green wrote :
    > They even have a "change your password day",


    This is a terrible idea.

    Black hats will know when you change your password and ANYTHING which
    gives them more information is a Bad Thing(tm)

    We rotate our passwords, but the exact number of days between changes
    is sightly randomized.

    --
    Wojtek :)
    Wojtek, Sep 16, 2009
    #19
  20. On Sep 16, 11:02 am, Wojtek <> wrote:
    > Roedy Green wrote :
    >
    > > I also think that people who post a lot should be given more latitude.

    >
    > Group : comp.lang.java.programmer
    > Computing time : 00:03:42
    > Statistics : from 1991.02.05 to 2009.09.16
    >
    > ***** Users with most messages *****
    >  num| Name                        | Nb Msg | size       | or. | %
    > ----|-----------------------------|--------|------------|-----|--------|
    >  14 |        |  1,371 |  4,890,108 |   2 |  0.85%
    > |
    >  20 |Twisted                    |  1,035 |  3,807,710 |  28 |  0.64%


    Yikes, and even though I hardly post here anymore.

    What's Oliver Wong doing in position number 5? Nobody by that name
    posts here, and I don't recall anyone with that name except for a
    comp.emacs flamer that paid a brief visit four or five years ago.
    There's no way that nut posted over 2500 articles in one flamewar.

    Of course, combining my own entries puts me in the number six spot and
    bumps Patricia down to number seven.

    Fewer posts than Oliver Wrong, and more of them on topic.
    Jerry Gerrone, Sep 16, 2009
    #20
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