Choosing framework

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Mark Levison, May 23, 2008.

  1. Mark Levison

    Mark Levison Guest

    I'm helping a friend who is going to be creating a new web app a hand
    navigating the technology maze. So far I've steered him in the direction
    of Ruby because it seems that a small team can build a good web app
    quickly in it. So far so good. I've read a most of the Pick Axe book and
    it’s great as far as it goes.

    But now I'm stuck how do I evaluate the various frameworks? Rails? Merb?
    I like the agnostic approach of Merb and am concerned that Rails has
    already chosen the UI library (the ORM tool, etc.) for me. But I know so
    little at this stage I may be missing the boat. Where do I go to learn
    more? The ideal would be I write small web app in each framework to get
    sense of what works. But this is unpaid work and I have a family so that
    option is right out.

    I’ve found the following post at InfoQ:
    http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/11/forgotten-ruby-web-frameworks - it at
    least mentions other frameworks. But even that news item makes no real
    attempt at comparison. Are there any good comparisons of the frameworks
    out there?

    Where would you start?
    Mark Levison
    Agile Software Development Coach
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Aperture vs. Lightroom - best comparisons
    http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2007/02/aperture_vs_lig.html
    Customer Retention Department - Vonage Customer Service Sucks
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    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
     
    Mark Levison, May 23, 2008
    #1
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  2. Mark Levison

    Sam Smoot Guest

    On May 23, 12:39 pm, Mark Levison <> wrote:
    > I'm helping a friend who is going to be creating a new web app a hand
    > navigating the technology maze. So far I've steered him in the direction
    > of Ruby because it seems that a small team can build a good web app
    > quickly in it. So far so good. I've read a most of the Pick Axe book and
    > it’s great as far as it goes.
    >
    > But now I'm stuck how do I evaluate the various frameworks? Rails? Merb?
    > I like the agnostic approach of Merb and am concerned that Rails has
    > already chosen the UI library (the ORM tool, etc.) for me. But I know so
    > little at this stage I may be missing the boat. Where do I go to learn
    > more? The ideal would be I write small web app in each framework to get
    > sense of what works. But this is unpaid work and I have a family so that
    > option is right out.
    >
    > I’ve found the following post at InfoQ:http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/11/forgotten-ruby-web-frameworks- it at
    > least mentions other frameworks. But even that news item makes no real
    > attempt at comparison. Are there any good comparisons of the frameworks
    > out there?
    >
    > Where would you start?
    > Mark Levison
    > Agile Software Development Coach
    > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Blog:http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/
    > One Year of Scrum: Lessons Learnedhttp://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2007/10/one-year-of-scr.html
    > Aperture vs. Lightroom - best comparisonshttp://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2007/02/aperture_vs_lig.html
    > Customer Retention Department - Vonage Customer Service Suckshttp://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2007/06/customer_retent.html
    > --
    > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.


    Mark,

    You'll find more tutorials and fewer issues on the Rails side of
    things, so if it's a simple site, there will be less pain there.

    On the other hand, I think the support you receive on IRC for Merb and
    DataMapper is second-to-none, so issues that you do run into have a
    good chance of being addressed quickly. If it were me, I'd go down
    this path, but if you're more concerned with getting the job done and
    out of the way as quickly as possible, and hackability/scalability/
    performance isn't that important, then I'd probably stick with Rails
    at this point.
     
    Sam Smoot, May 23, 2008
    #2
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  3. Mark Levison

    James Britt Guest


    > On the other hand, I think the support you receive on IRC for Merb and
    > DataMapper is second-to-none, so issues that you do run into have a
    > good chance of being addressed quickly. If it were me, I'd go down
    > this path, but if you're more concerned with getting the job done and
    > out of the way as quickly as possible, and hackability/scalability/
    > performance isn't that important, then I'd probably stick with Rails
    > at this point.


    #ramaze is one of the most active channels I've been on, and have been
    amazed by how fast I can get help. Very responsive and friendly
    community, and Ramaze is a rockin' framework.


    I don' think it would be that hard to try some simple apps in Merb,
    Ramaze, Camping, etc to get a feel for their differences.

    They all seem to play well with a variety of template systems and
    ORMS; Sequel is popular in the Ramaze world, DataMapper may be the
    more likely choice with Merb (and I'm still partial to Og)

    James
     
    James Britt, May 24, 2008
    #3
  4. Mark Levison

    Mark Wilden Guest

    On May 23, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Mark Levison wrote:

    > But now I'm stuck how do I evaluate the various frameworks? Rails?
    > Merb?
    > I like the agnostic approach of Merb and am concerned that Rails has
    > already chosen the UI library (the ORM tool, etc.) for me. But I
    > know so
    > little at this stage I may be missing the boat. Where do I go to learn
    > more? The ideal would be I write small web app in each framework to
    > get
    > sense of what works. But this is unpaid work and I have a family so
    > that
    > option is right out.


    I would just start with Rails. 1) If another framework is better, that
    means a lot of people are wrong (which is possible). 2) There is the
    most information and help available for Rails. 3) Knowing Rails means
    knowing the one framework that most people have heard of, and to which
    other frameworks are compared.

    The important thing is to just dive in, and not worry too much about
    picking the absolute best framework. Ruby/Rails are agile, and that
    means doing the simplest thing that could possibly work.

    ///ark
     
    Mark Wilden, May 24, 2008
    #4
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    Hash: SHA1

    Mark Levison wrote:
    |
    | But now I'm stuck how do I evaluate the various frameworks? Rails? Merb?

    Short answer: Yes.

    Long answer: Test them, by building the same (or very similar)
    application in all candidates.

    Also, keep in mind that Rails has the most options (and tutorials and
    general information) on deployment.

    ~From JRuby in an application server, to the classic mod_proxy + Mongrel,
    to PAssenger/mod_rails

    Most of those (except mod_rails) will work for Merb and other
    frameworks, too, but getting the information might be trickier.

    | I like the agnostic approach of Merb and am concerned that Rails has
    | already chosen the UI library (the ORM tool, etc.) for me. But I know so
    | little at this stage I may be missing the boat. Where do I go to learn
    | more? The ideal would be I write small web app in each framework to get
    | sense of what works. But this is unpaid work and I have a family so that
    | option is right out.

    Well, limit yourself to an hour or two to evaluate one framework, and
    see how far you get with each. Mind you, you'll still be using up time
    just by reading about the different frameworks.

    Also: This isn't time you lost, but time invested: You know more, and
    can thusly approach similar questions easier and with a bit of
    expertise. Which, to me, counts more than just saying "I've read a
    couple of articles and three books on the topic".

    | I’ve found the following post at InfoQ:
    | http://www.infoq.com/news/2007/11/forgotten-ruby-web-frameworks - it at
    | least mentions other frameworks. But even that news item makes no real
    | attempt at comparison. Are there any good comparisons of the frameworks
    | out there?
    |
    | Where would you start?

    Testing them, and getting some hands on experience with the frameworks.

    - --
    Phillip Gawlowski
    Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan
    Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com

    ~ "I suppose the secret to happiness is learning to appreciate the
    moment."
    - -Calvin
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    Phillip Gawlowski, May 24, 2008
    #5
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