Choosing the right framework

Discussion in 'Python' started by Carsten Gehling, Jul 16, 2003.

  1. Oh how often this subject may come up...

    The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
    possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
    Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
    webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)

    I stand now at the point where I must choose a framework for my web
    application development. I've skimmed a few: mod_python, pso and Zope.
    However, I cannot decide on which to choose.

    I've read descriptions and comments on
    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming to get other's
    opinions. The user comments are sparse though, so I've decided to ask here.

    I like the ideas behind Zope. For instance the "long running process"
    feature that improve performance and retain scripts between requests, among
    other things. I do not, however, like the design of the management
    interface, it would not appeal to my customers. I'm not yet knowledgable
    enough about Zope, to know if this can be changed. Anyone who can elaborate?
    (MaxM don't answer "Plone"... ;-)

    mod_python seems the choice, if I want the feature of retaining scripts in
    memory between requests and want to write my own managemen interface. I
    don't know, if it allows for application variables (variables shared
    globally between sessions).

    pso looks like the framework that is easiest to deploy. If run under
    mod_python, it also retains scripts in memory, but does it allow for the
    aforementioned application variables? And does the performance match up
    compared to mod_python and Zope?

    It'll probably be run behind an Apache httpd server, so I guess Twisted is
    out of the question.

    What is your preferred framework? And why?

    To those who would ask "What do you want to do with it", the answer is:
    General purpose web application development. Porting (enhancing) of my
    existing CMS (built in PHP - it's badly in need of a rewrite, so the time is
    right for changing to Python).

    I am to start on a new web project in the beginning of next week, and I
    would like to use this opportunity to make the switch from PHP to Python.
    Which is why I ask and don't just spend 2+ more weeks to dig further into
    the above mentioned frameworks before making the decision.

    - Carsten
     
    Carsten Gehling, Jul 16, 2003
    #1
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  2. Carsten Gehling wrote:

    > Oh how often this subject may come up...
    >
    > The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
    > possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
    > Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
    > webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)


    Where do you want to store your data? [relational database, text files,
    ZODB, Berkley DB, pickles, ...]

    If you don't need ZODB (object database), I would not use Zope.

    I would use quixote.

    thomas
     
    Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=, Jul 16, 2003
    #2
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  3. Carsten Gehling

    Peter Hansen Guest

    Thomas G├╝ttler wrote:
    >
    > Carsten Gehling wrote:
    >
    > > Oh how often this subject may come up...
    > >
    > > The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
    > > possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
    > > Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
    > > webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)

    >
    > Where do you want to store your data? [relational database, text files,
    > ZODB, Berkley DB, pickles, ...]
    >
    > If you don't need ZODB (object database), I would not use Zope.


    Even if you want ZODB, you can always use the standalone one, and still
    skip Zope, if that's what you want.
     
    Peter Hansen, Jul 16, 2003
    #3
  4. Carsten Gehling

    David McNab Guest

    On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:54:16 +0200, Carsten Gehling paused, took a deep
    breath, then came out with:

    > Oh how often this subject may come up...
    >
    > The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
    > possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
    > Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
    > webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)
    >
    > I stand now at the point where I must choose a framework for my web
    > application development. I've skimmed a few: mod_python, pso and Zope.
    > However, I cannot decide on which to choose.


    I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
    posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.

    You might like to visit http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb and have a
    look.

    Cheers
    David
     
    David McNab, Jul 17, 2003
    #4
  5. Carsten Gehling

    Peter Hansen Guest

    David McNab wrote:
    >
    > I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
    > posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.
    >
    > You might like to visit http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb and have a
    > look.



    David, I had to post instead of reply, since you of course have
    hidden your email address. I hope you get this.

    You are using the refuse.com domain for your fake address. This
    is very inappropriate, as that is a real domain for a real company.

    Please switch to the proper approach: append ".invalid" to your
    address. This is the *defined* way to form a domain name which
    is guaranteed to be invalid.

    -Peter
     
    Peter Hansen, Jul 17, 2003
    #5
  6. Carsten Gehling

    Max M Guest

    Carsten Gehling wrote:


    > I like the ideas behind Zope. For instance the "long running process"
    > feature that improve performance and retain scripts between requests, among
    > other things. I do not, however, like the design of the management
    > interface, it would not appeal to my customers. I'm not yet knowledgable
    > enough about Zope, to know if this can be changed. Anyone who can elaborate?
    > (MaxM don't answer "Plone"... ;-)



    Have you thought about running Python under .asp ?? I have made a few
    medium sized projects that way, and after aligning my methods to using
    Python in combination with .asp it was quite good.

    Another thing. If you find Plone to be too specific, you could just
    plain cmf.

    But it is quite easy to rewrite the interface of a Zope product.

    Even though Zope and especially Plone are hard to get into they buy you
    a lot of leverage. And you are competing with people who do know Zope/Plone.


    regards Max M
     
    Max M, Jul 17, 2003
    #6
  7. Carsten Gehling

    David McNab Guest

    On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:35:00 -0400, Peter Hansen paused, took a deep
    breath, then came out with:

    > You are using the refuse.com domain for your fake address. This
    > is very inappropriate, as that is a real domain for a real company.


    OK - thx for pointing this out to me.

    I've changed my posted email address to something I consider far more
    appropriate.

    Cheers
     
    David McNab, Nov 27, 2003
    #7
  8. Carsten Gehling

    David McNab Guest

    On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:54:16 +0200, Carsten Gehling paused, took a deep
    breath, then came out with:

    > Oh how often this subject may come up...
    >
    > The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
    > possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
    > Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
    > webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)
    >
    > I stand now at the point where I must choose a framework for my web
    > application development. I've skimmed a few: mod_python, pso and Zope.
    > However, I cannot decide on which to choose.


    I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
    posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.

    You might like to visit http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb and have a
    look.

    Cheers
    David


    > I've read descriptions and comments on
    > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming to get other's
    > opinions. The user comments are sparse though, so I've decided to ask here.
    >
    > I like the ideas behind Zope. For instance the "long running process"
    > feature that improve performance and retain scripts between requests, among
    > other things. I do not, however, like the design of the management
    > interface, it would not appeal to my customers. I'm not yet knowledgable
    > enough about Zope, to know if this can be changed. Anyone who can elaborate?
    > (MaxM don't answer "Plone"... ;-)
    >
    > mod_python seems the choice, if I want the feature of retaining scripts in
    > memory between requests and want to write my own managemen interface. I
    > don't know, if it allows for application variables (variables shared
    > globally between sessions).
    >
    > pso looks like the framework that is easiest to deploy. If run under
    > mod_python, it also retains scripts in memory, but does it allow for the
    > aforementioned application variables? And does the performance match up
    > compared to mod_python and Zope?
    >
    > It'll probably be run behind an Apache httpd server, so I guess Twisted is
    > out of the question.
    >
    > What is your preferred framework? And why?
    >
    > To those who would ask "What do you want to do with it", the answer is:
    > General purpose web application development. Porting (enhancing) of my
    > existing CMS (built in PHP - it's badly in need of a rewrite, so the time is
    > right for changing to Python).
    >
    > I am to start on a new web project in the beginning of next week, and I
    > would like to use this opportunity to make the switch from PHP to Python.
    > Which is why I ask and don't just spend 2+ more weeks to dig further into
    > the above mentioned frameworks before making the decision.
    >
    > - Carsten
     
    David McNab, Nov 27, 2003
    #8
  9. Carsten Gehling

    Peter Maas Guest

    David McNab schrieb:
    > I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
    > posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.


    looks good. But the online documentation links are broken.

    Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

    Peter Maas

    --
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
    Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Peter Maas, Nov 27, 2003
    #9
  10. Carsten Gehling

    Ville Vainio Guest

    [OT] Re: Choosing the right framework

    David McNab <> writes:

    > I've changed my posted email address to something I consider far more
    > appropriate.


    I don't think riaa has a user 'plenty_of_messages'... Why not try
    something like or ?

    --
    Ville Vainio http://www.students.tut.fi/~vainio24
     
    Ville Vainio, Nov 27, 2003
    #10
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