Chrome for Android does not support JAVA

[Arne Vajhøj]

You're assuming everyone has stable, non-infected pc's. The whole point
of the cloud, insofar as I can tell, to avoid annoying support calls
which end in either "reboot" or "re-install".

That is not a common reason given.

The beauty of AJAX, etc, is in terms of support. It's a complex way of
getting away from Windows, to which people will go to extraordinary
lengths.

Windows has not really lost significant market market share.

And given that it with Windows 8 planned to be releases
in October will be possible to write Windows desktop apps
in HTML5/CSS/JS, then that combo is fine for Windows.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I am starting to think that this whole idea of 'running applications
in the cloud' will never work as well as running an application
on the desktop.

It is 10+ years since many apps moved to web apps.

And whether the web app is hosted in house or in the cloud
does not have functional impact.

So it will work for many apps.

But there are probably also some apps that it will not work for.

If I see the same thing with a choice of an applet or a jar file
that I can download first and run on the PC, I now go for the jar
file choice.

The speed of the internet these days makes downloading things
not an issue any more.

People now think HTML5/Javascript is the next big thing, where
everyone will write their wonderful advanced 20 million lines
applications in HTML5 and Javascript.

May be for simple games and basic app this will work, but
for advanced applications where good and robust performance
is important, running things directly on the desktop/computer
will always be better than running things inside yet another
software application like the browser.

HTML5/CSS/JS will still be mostly presentation layer.

For that purpose performance will be good enough for many
apps.

Arne

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

That is not a common reason given.

Not having to worry about the infrastructure is in fact one of the most
common reasons for going to the cloud. If you look at IaaS, PaaS, SaaS
(or any others of the derivative ?aaS's) all of them relieve you of some
degree of worry about (read "support for") some aspect of IT.

[ SNIP ]

AHS

 

[Thufir]

Not having to worry about the infrastructure is in fact one of the most
common reasons for going to the cloud. If you look at IaaS, PaaS, SaaS
(or any others of the derivative ?aaS's) all of them relieve you of some
degree of worry about (read "support for") some aspect of IT.

Exactly. That Windows is prevalent is undoubtedly an indirect reason for
all this cloud stuff -- it expressly avoids dealing with Windows
directly. Instead you deal with the browser. Which, of course, is where
ActiveX extensions come in...

If everyone was on an iMac or something reliable and secure, then desktop
apps would rule, is my point. Or, to turn that question around: *why*
medium sized businesses like their stuff in the cloud? Only because it
eliminates the local pc as a problem, I say.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Not having to worry about the infrastructure is in fact one of the most
common reasons for going to the cloud. If you look at IaaS, PaaS, SaaS
(or any others of the derivative ?aaS's) all of them relieve you of some
degree of worry about (read "support for") some aspect of IT.

Not worrying about infrastructure is indeed a common
reason.

But I have never heard about not having to reboot or
reinstall client side Windows as a common reason.

Arne

 

[Roedy Green]

I am starting to think that this whole idea of 'running applications
in the cloud' will never work as well as running an application
on the desktop.

Google is pulling the same stunt that Microsoft did long ago. They are
creating a variant jar file for to run Java apps on their platform.
They don't want apps developed for Android universally available.

They have more excuse than MS did. You can't very will implement
Swing on a cell-phone, at least not this week.


--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
When you were a child, if you did your own experiment
to see if it was better to put to cocoa into your cup first
or the hot milk first, then you likely have the programmer gene..

 

[Silvio Bierman]

Exactly. That Windows is prevalent is undoubtedly an indirect reason for
all this cloud stuff -- it expressly avoids dealing with Windows
directly. Instead you deal with the browser. Which, of course, is where
ActiveX extensions come in...

If everyone was on an iMac or something reliable and secure, then desktop
apps would rule, is my point. Or, to turn that question around: *why*
medium sized businesses like their stuff in the cloud? Only because it
eliminates the local pc as a problem, I say.

First of all iMac and Linux (which I use) desktops are hardly more
secure than a Windows desktop. That is all in the numbers. The more
users the more security mishaps, largely because such a user base is
attractive to hackers. The fact that the average non-Windows users are
more techy than their counterparts and are therefore more security aware
further amplifies this.

The Cloud has little or nothing to do with that. It may even introduce
more security hazards than it circumvents.

The Cloud is mostly about having the same functionality AND data on all
devices you may use. The desktop at work, the old PC at home, your
phone, the shiny new tablet you bought your wife, your friends high end
TV you can now use to show him something you did at work, the PC in the
Internet cafe during your vacation, etc. etc.

The Cload makes verything be about your data and what you do with it
instead of the devices (and to a large extent the applications) you
happen to use at any moment in time.

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

Not worrying about infrastructure is indeed a common
reason.

But I have never heard about not having to reboot or
reinstall client side Windows as a common reason.

Arne

I didn't have it narrowed down to "client side", Arne. If it is narrowed
down to that then I don't know if we're talking about a common reason or
just a reason. It's certainly not an insignificant reason: it's a short
step from desktop virtualization inside your own organization to the
Desktop-as-a-Service variant of SaaS. If that isn't a common reason now
for "cloud" it surely will be soon.

AHS

 

[Richard Maher]

On 4/1/2012 2:39 PM, Nasser M. Abbasi wrote:
HTML5/CSS/JS will still be mostly presentation layer.

For that purpose performance will be good enough for many
apps.

For others the ability to share global memory in the form of Applet static
variables across multiple tabs in a browser instance can be considered the
Mutt's nuts! Multiplexing and multi-threading all tab/server communication
over a single high-performance and secure binary TCP/IP Socket is also rich
functionality-viagra for those who know how to take advantage of a
persistent, full-duplex, network connection.

But everyone is obviously free to continue to throw happiness away with both
hands.

Arne

Cheers Richard Maher

 

[Thufir]

For others the ability to share global memory in the form of Applet
static variables across multiple tabs in a browser instance can be
considered the Mutt's nuts! Multiplexing and multi-threading all
tab/server communication over a single high-performance and secure
binary TCP/IP Socket is also rich functionality-viagra for those who
know how to take advantage of a persistent, full-duplex, network
connection.

Can you expand on that a bit with a use case? By tab/server you mean
client server?

The user has n tabs open on the browser to the same web app?


-Thufir

 

[Richard Maher]

Can you expand on that a bit with a use case? By tab/server you mean
client server?

The user has n tabs open on the browser to the same web app?

Yes! Multiple instances of an Applet in a single browser instance sharing
Static class variables. In my case a Socket from a factory. (*With Single
Sign-On!*)

-Thufir

Cheers Richard Maher

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Google is pulling the same stunt that Microsoft did long ago. They are
creating a variant jar file for to run Java apps on their platform.

Not a jar file.

They don't want apps developed for Android universally available.

That does not seem as a logical explanation.

You can't very will implement
Swing on a cell-phone, at least not this week.

It is technically possible.

See software like http://www.apogee.com/ !

But the UX is probably not that great.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I didn't have it narrowed down to "client side", Arne.

Well what started it was this:

# annoying support calls which end in either "reboot" or "re-install"

And while it does happen that support call on desktop Windows from an
end user may end with one of these two options, then it would surprise
me if a support call on Windows server from a sysadm ended with one
of those.

If it is narrowed
down to that then I don't know if we're talking about a common reason or
just a reason. It's certainly not an insignificant reason: it's a short
step from desktop virtualization inside your own organization to the
Desktop-as-a-Service variant of SaaS. If that isn't a common reason now
for "cloud" it surely will be soon.

I don't think DaaS is mainstream now.

It could become.

But I am a bit skeptical. The PC has been doomed many times. But the
thin clients or whatever they call it a particular year has never really
gotten traction.

Remember back when Larry Ellison said that the NC would kill
the PC.

I think people actually like their PC's!

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

For others the ability to share global memory in the form of Applet static
variables across multiple tabs in a browser instance can be considered the
Mutt's nuts! Multiplexing and multi-threading all tab/server communication
over a single high-performance and secure binary TCP/IP Socket is also rich
functionality-viagra for those who know how to take advantage of a
persistent, full-duplex, network connection.

True.

But there are a lot of apps that don't need what you describe.

Arne

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

[snip]

But I am a bit skeptical. The PC has been doomed many times. But the

^
Insert "said to be".

thin clients or whatever they call it a particular year has never really
gotten traction.

Remember back when Larry Ellison said that the NC would kill
the PC.

I think people actually like their PC's!

I think they like having something to own. "My data is here!"
vs. "My data is Over There, oops, no, Over There."

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[Nasser M. Abbasi]

I think people actually like their PC's!

"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home."

Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation.

I guess he also believed in "cloud" computing as well.

--Nasser

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

On 4/2/2012 7:02 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home."

Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation.

I guess he also believed in "cloud" computing as well.

No, it is just that there was no perceived need for computers in
the home. In these days of computer saturation, that may be hard to
understand, but it was so.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home."

Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation.

I guess he also believed in "cloud" computing as well.

He believed in time sharing computers.

And the widely spread quote may have been out of
context - at least that is the claim at:
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/kenolsen.asp

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

There was not even a perceived need for *computing* in the home.

The quote is from 1977.

The same year as Apple introduced the Apple II.

Arne

 

[Gene Wirchenko]

He believed in time sharing computers.

And the widely spread quote may have been out of
context - at least that is the claim at:
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/kenolsen.asp

Thank you for the link. That makes a lot more sense. There
still are silly computer quotes. The one I really like is:

Popular Mechanics, March 1949, p. 258: "Where a calculator on the
ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and weighs 30 tons,
computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and perhaps
weigh 1 1/2 tons."

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko