CLPM - a help group?

[Adam Worrall]

Today it is grey.

The clouds are grey, the sky is still blue.

You miss my point. I can observe that CLPM does not behave like a help
desk. That does not mean I am "legislating" what CLPM participants may
do. Whether my observation is right or wrong has no bearing on this.

but in saying that "CLPM does not behave like a help desk" you are wrong
in that it depends on what kind of help desk. It is in fact comparable
to a volunteer based help service, where no one is obligated to help,
but do so out of their own goodness and willingness to help.

Tad probably has it right, some posters presume that readers are under
some obligation to answer their questions by supplying ready-made
solutions.

While it may seem _some_ readers may think that way (and that that might
be just a mistaken perception) but it doesn't change that this group,
like many others, functions as a volunteer help service.

You often see "if you can't answer my question just shut up" from
posters new to a newsgroup when faced with a pointer to a FAQ or a
criticism of their posting style.

I don't see much of that at all. You seem to be taking what is actually
a minority case and posing it as a majority example. More often than
not, what I see is some level of gratitude, even if it's just a simple
"thanks." I'm sorry that you do not see this.

- Adam

 

[Tad J McClellan]

I leaves us with a charter that doesn't say it is or isn't a "help
desk", and anyone attempting to make authoritative claims it no better
than a DNS server giving responses for a domain it is not responsible for.

And you are making an authoritative claim that is a help desk.

It is OK for you to make claims, but not OK for other to make claims?

Who died and made you king?

Which is wrong,

There you go with the authoritative claims again.

Your wisdom is greater than anyone else who is here, that is clear.

So you have nothing left to prove. We will all do as you say immediately.

Thanks for saving our newsgroup.

 

[Tad J McClellan]

The clouds are grey, the sky is still blue.

And this newsgroup is still not a help desk.

 

[Adam Worrall]

No disrespect intended, but I don't think you've ever spent any time on
a volunteer-run help desk before. Oh wait, you post in clpm

I've sat on volunteer help desks and paid help desks.[/QUOTE]

I've sat on actual volunteer help desks myself about 11 years ago in a
national park. Usually people would either come in or walk in and if we
had the answer we would freely provide it, but we didn't have to do. We
weren't paid. We were just there to help the Park service.

You might say that you mean no disrespect, but **** you.

Really, am I supposed to be impressed? I was being quite civil, so I'm
not sure why you felt this was warranted. I fact, you of all people I
had always thought as one of the better mannered people around here, and
not someone who devolves into a 3rd grader's tantrum. Guess CLPM
continues to never cease to amaze me.

You said it, you mean it, and you're too much of a pussy to
stand by what you typed and posted.

Ok what the hell are you talking about here? How have I not stood by
everything I've said? I don't know where all your hostility is coming
from but now you're just creating fiction.

But no matter. You're just another shithead who won't be around in a
year when I'm still answering questions and helping people.

Tell me, does it surprise you at all that this news group gets the
reputation that it keeps getting, and that the behavior you just
displayed does absolutely nothing to help. I would expect you, the FAQ
maintainer of all people, to present yourself in the way you yourself
would like to be treated, rather than attempting to refute an argument
with a "**** you."

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

And you are making an authoritative claim that is a help desk.

Wrong. I said it acts just like a volunteer based help desk, like the
one I once worked in. That's that the same as saying it _is_ a help desk.

It is OK for you to make claims, but not OK for other to make claims?

I didn't make the claim. The point was that people like yourself make
the opposite claim, and yet it's ok for you to do it?

Who died and made you king?

What about yourself? What about all the times you have said it _wasn't_
a help desk? How is that any different than if I had made the claim you
said I did (which I didn't - see above.)

There you go with the authoritative claims again.

You once again snipped the context and changed what I said:

"Which is wrong, because clpmisc functions as a volunteer help service."

I don't see how you can dispute this, as it is exactly how this and most
technical groups function; people ask questions, and anyone who wants to
answers, but no one _has_ to answer.

Your wisdom is greater than anyone else who is here, that is clear.

And you ability to snip relevant context to make it sound like I said
something different than what I said is even more clear.

So you have nothing left to prove. We will all do as you say immediately.

Why is it you and various others who support your side can assert what
is and isn't right yet when you see someone else doing the same for the
opposite for what you believe, it is suddenly wrong? Why the double
standard?

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

And this newsgroup is still not a help desk.

There you go again. In your other post you complained about me asserting
what is and isn't right in this group (which was false), and here you
are doing just that. Who is acting like a king here? What makes you an
authority on weather or not this is a help desk (despite the fact that
it functions just like a _volunteer_ help desk) ?

- Adam

 

[Ron Bergin]

The clouds are grey, the sky is still blue.

I hope that you don't apply that same type of "logic" and observation
to your programing. If you do, then you're a really poor programmer.

Right now the sky above me is "black", and at other times I see a
redish-orange sky. Based on your statement, one can only assume that
you have no clue as to why or how the sky and or clouds appear as blue
or grey or whatever. If you didn't know and refuse to see that the
sky can appear as different colors, then you will never be able to see
that CLPM is not a helpdesk.

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

Adam Worrall wrote:

<rant omitted>

According to Google Groups you've made no contribution to this newsgroup
in the last decade. You now pop up and your only action is to start
telling regular contributors how they should be behaving.

Bye.

 

[Charlton Wilbur]

AW> Why is it you and various others who support your side can
AW> assert what is and isn't right yet when you see someone else
AW> doing the same for the opposite for what you believe, it is
AW> suddenly wrong? Why the double standard?

Because Tad and the "various others who support [his] side" are people
who have spent years posting to clpm and who are responsible, in part
for making it what it is; and you appear, as near as I can tell, to just
have shown up for this particular thread.

Charlton

 

[Charlton Wilbur]

AW> I would expect you, the FAQ maintainer of all people, to present
AW> yourself in the way you yourself would like to be treated,
AW> rather than attempting to refute an argument with a "**** you."

Were you making an actual argument, rather than simply a ludicrous and
insulting attempt at proof by repeated assertion, you might be
correct.

Charlton

 

[Adam Worrall]

AW> Why is it you and various others who support your side can
AW> assert what is and isn't right yet when you see someone else
AW> doing the same for the opposite for what you believe, it is
AW> suddenly wrong? Why the double standard?

Because Tad and the "various others who support [his] side" are people
who have spent years posting to clpm and who are responsible, in part
for making it what it is;

Yes, they are exactly responsible for making this ng into what it was
become...

and you appear, as near as I can tell, to just have shown up for
this particular thread.

No, I've been around but in recent years I have refrained from checking
this group for the same reasons many other good people stopped.

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

I hope that you don't apply that same type of "logic" and observation
to your programing. If you do, then you're a really poor programmer.

Actually, I find appropriately attributing aspects of a given object to
where they belong to be a vital virtue.

Right now the sky above me is "black", and at other times I see a
redish-orange sky.

Ok, true, but that's an actual color of the sky. When it's cloudy, it's
the cloud's color you see, not the sky's. When you look at a brilliant
sun-set, that _is_ the color of the sky at that given time.

If you didn't know and refuse to see that the sky can appear as
different colors,

I never said it couldn't be different colors. Don't mix things like this.

then you will never be able to see that CLPM is not a helpdesk.

Once again, it depends on what kind of help desk. It happens to function
as a voluntary (or volunteer) type of help desk, and I know this from
personal experience having participated on one.

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

Adam Worrall wrote:

<rant omitted>

According to Google Groups you've made no contribution to this newsgroup
in the last decade. You now pop up and your only action is to start
telling regular contributors how they should be behaving.

On the contrary, I did no such thing. I commented on my dislike for the
regular contributors stance that they take that unless we do as _they_
say, we are not part of the "community." And I have good reasons for
leaving this news group years ago. People like you and the "regular
contributors" make it very clear why many good people left this group.

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

AW> I would expect you, the FAQ maintainer of all people, to present
AW> yourself in the way you yourself would like to be treated,
AW> rather than attempting to refute an argument with a "**** you."

Were you making an actual argument, rather than simply a ludicrous and
insulting attempt at proof by repeated assertion, you might be
correct.

Are you kidding me? I was entirely civil. I presented my argument. I
haven't simply repeated myself (but sometimes when it falls on death
ears one has little recourse than to repeat themselves at some level.)

I'm not the one who replied, displaying argumentative skills of a 10
year old. I've seen more intelligent rebuttals from Paris Hilton for
pete's sake.

- Adam

 

[Dr.Ruud]

Adam Worrall schreef:

How can a _volunteer_ service be _obligated_ to do anything? They are
volunteers...

They will be sent away when they don't. You are not contributing so you
should really leave now.

*plonk*

 

[Martijn Lievaart]

Are you kidding me? I was entirely civil. I presented my argument. I
haven't simply repeated myself (but sometimes when it falls on death
ears one has little recourse than to repeat themselves at some level.)

I'm not the one who replied, displaying argumentative skills of a 10
year old. I've seen more intelligent rebuttals from Paris Hilton for
pete's sake.

Well that sums it up. As Paris Hilton can make NO intelligent rebuttals,
you've betrayed yourself for what you are.

But seriously, you think a newsgroup should change the way it works
because you feel like it. You keep repeating the same non arguments. You
think you make an intelligent argument, when in fact, you display the
social skill level of a 10 year old.

That kind of behavior can even make Brian say the F word. If he hadn't,
someone else would have.

You are welcome to return here once you've acquired some social clue,
until then, please FOAD.

M4

 

[sln]

Well that sums it up. As Paris Hilton can make NO intelligent rebuttals,
you've betrayed yourself for what you are.

But seriously, you think a newsgroup should change the way it works
because you feel like it. You keep repeating the same non arguments. You
think you make an intelligent argument, when in fact, you display the
social skill level of a 10 year old.

That kind of behavior can even make Brian say the F word. If he hadn't,
someone else would have.

You are welcome to return here once you've acquired some social clue,
until then, please FOAD.

M4

Well, I'm glad you have made the summation and its over.
I've read the FAQ for along time now, so I can only say
thanks to BDF. Unless your in his shoes, you havn't walked
the mile.

The point by Adam meanwhile, at its heart, isin't dissing
BDF, or any other people who provide help.

Apparently, Adam's objection is about 'control', as some of us here
(not me), he contends seek to 'control' the how/why/whatfor the
daily manutia that glows from this group.

Am I right on that Adam?

sln

 

[Adam Worrall]

Adam Worrall schreef:


They will be sent away when they don't. You are not contributing so you
should really leave now.

And you people complain when someone starts dictating policy... what the
hell do you call this?

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

But seriously, you think a newsgroup should change the way it works
because you feel like it.

When did I say that? All I said was that it functions like a _volunteer_
help desk, and people like Tad completely twisted what I said. I never
said I wanted to change the group, that was a big assumption made by
someone(s) other than myself.

That kind of behavior can even make Brian say the F word. If he hadn't,
someone else would have.

I don't know, but it certainly wasn't warranted and it's not my fault he
lost control of his faculties of a simple comment.

You are welcome to return here once you've acquired some social clue,

How about you acquire some reading comprehension skills and start
thinking for yourself instead of allowing people like Tad to do the
thinking for you based on things I didn't actually say.

- Adam

 

[Adam Worrall]

Well, I'm glad you have made the summation and its over.
I've read the FAQ for along time now, so I can only say
thanks to BDF. Unless your in his shoes, you havn't walked
the mile.

For the record, I respect Brain, and I have been in those shoes before,
and there really wasn't any reason for his profane outburst, but I don't
think any less of him. I know we all have our down days.

The point by Adam meanwhile, at its heart, isin't dissing
BDF, or any other people who provide help.

Apparently, Adam's objection is about 'control', as some of us here
(not me), he contends seek to 'control' the how/why/whatfor the
daily manutia that glows from this group.

You've completely lost what I said and instead listening to people who
want to believe their own view. Yes, there are people here who seem to
expect that you follow their every whim, or I'm sure there wouldn't be
someone to bring such a topic up every month or so.

For the record, my beef was that some people say this isn't a "help
desk" and all I really said was this news group, like many others,
operates just like a volunteer help desk, and this is true, because it's
the same thing the regular contributors have said over the years in
different words.

The fact that I said it in a wording _they_ didn't approve of
demonstrates exactly that they in fact expect a level of obedience -
they tell you something and they act like you should never question what
they say.

/me waits for the next handful of lemmings to reply and deny all this.

- Adam