CLPM - a help group?

A

Adam Worrall

John said:
So you worked at a voluntary help desk that had no obligation to function?

That's not what I said. We were not obligated to give help, but we did
so because we wanted to. We weren't even paid for the time spent there
(though we were paid for other things outside of the desk.)

- Adam
 
A

Adam Worrall

Michael said:
Why the ^%*!& are you still arguing this?

Because it's the truth. I wouldn't have thought that anyone would have a
problem with that...

- Adam
 
J

John Bokma

Adam Worrall said:
That's not what I said. We were not obligated to give help,

How did it function is you all were not obligated to give help? Of course
we're not talking here about help out of the scope of the help desk.
but we did
so because we wanted to.

And you could come and go when ever you wanted, stay away without calling
in sick. Do nothing the whole day, being rude at everybody without a
single problem?
 
M

Martijn Lievaart

There you go again. This does not really apply to a _volunteer_ help
desk where you are _not_ obligated to answer _anything_, which _how_
_this_ _group_ _functions_.

That's not how a volunteer help desk functions, so stop pretending it is.

(And you have been explained this several times already so I'm not going
to explain it again).

M4
 
J

John Bokma

Adam Worrall said:
wrong. I was merely stating a fact about how this and many other group
function.

This group *functioning* like a help desk, doesn't make it one. So there
is no problem at all if someone here states that this group is *not* a
helpdesk, simply because it isn't.

A nail can function like a screw, but that doesn't make a nail a screw,
even though you have used one time a nail to replace a missing screw.
 
J

Justin C

So, it's ok for you and others to make a particular assumption but it's
not for someone of the opposing view? Why the double standard?

OK. Let's test your assumption that that there are persons (excluding
yourself) that think this is a help group.

ALL THOSE WHO THINK THIS NEWSGROUP IS NOT FOR PERL DISCUSSION, BUT IS A
FORUM FOR HELPING PEOPLE WITH PERL PROBLEMS SAY AYE!

Justin.
 
J

Justin C

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

Appearances can be deceptive... things aren't always as you see them...
sometimes you have to step back to see the bigger picture.... sometimes
you just want an argument and will walk into a room and antagonise
everyone in it.

Take your pick, I don't care, I'm only here for entertainment value...
well, apart from the perl discussion.

I have not run away from anything, so please do not imply otherwise.
Eh?


Why, because _you_ saw that's right? That alone doesn't mean it _the_
correct, or the only correct course of action. _Not_ giving up is
sometimes the better approach, and giving up here only tells that the
wrong side has been allowed to win.

Look, when you can explain yourself in English come back and try again.
Until that time I can only make assumptions about what you are trying to
say, and as you do not appear to be happy that people make assumptions,
I'll wait until I can be certain of your meaning before I reply.

You seem intent on implying my intent :) My goal here is/was not to make
as many enemies as possible, but it's clear one cannot voice against
what may be the status-quo in some people's eyes, without getting buried
by the very people who think they own the news group, which is quite
laughable in and of itself.


Thanks, but I know how to find help when I need it.


So what? Then why are you reading it. Weather or not the thread is
boring to you, who are you dictate to others how to proceed in a thread?

Oh dear.
A thread is for everyone, not just you. If you don't like a way a
thread is going, than _don't_ _read_ _it_. It's very simple.

I think I'll do better than that.

<PLONK>

(yeah, I know, should have done it ages ago, shouldn't have get drawn
in).

In fact, this sort of thing exactly proves me point about the certain
type of people on Usenet who which to push their will on others, which
really has no place in a peer to peer environment. There is no central
government, and people who act like they are the president is what's the
problem here.

I've been here several years, and I know there are quite a few who have
been here a lot longer. I've never found it to be as you say it is, I've
always found this group very civil. But then I'm not the sort of person
to walk into a room and start telling the people in it what they are and
aren't before I've been introduced.

Justin.
 
A

Adam Worrall

Justin said:
OK. Let's test your assumption that that there are persons (excluding
yourself) that think this is a help group.

That wasn't the point and you know it. The point was it functions like a
_volunteer_ help desk, not a paid one. But, by all means, feel free to
continue wallowing in your own ignorance.

- Adam
 
A

Adam Worrall

Justin said:
Appearances can be deceptive... things aren't always as you see them...
sometimes you have to step back to see the bigger picture.... sometimes
you just want an argument and will walk into a room and antagonise
everyone in it.

I antagonized no one, I merely stated an observation. which was no less
valid than anyone else's, as it describes how the group functions, no
matter how much you feel you must deny it.

- Adam
 
A

Adam Worrall

Martijn said:
That's not how a volunteer help desk functions, so stop pretending it is.

Yes it is. I've been on one, so I've been speaking from first hand
experience, so don't tell me how one functions. You just posted in one.
(And you have been explained this several times

So have you. And reiterating a falsehood over and over doesn't make it
any more true, so please spare us all the superior
you-must-listen-to-us-because-we-are-never-wrong routine.

- Adam
 
A

Adam Worrall

John said:
This group *functioning* like a help desk, doesn't make it one. So there
is no problem at all if someone here states that this group is *not* a
helpdesk, simply because it isn't.

See the difference here? I never sait it *was* one, I said it acted like
one. I wasn't attempting to make an authoritarian position, yet you
seem to have no problem doing that your self, sayign that "it isn't",
when you clearly have no authority to say that, just as I or anyone has
no place to say it is.
A nail can function like a screw, but that doesn't make a nail a screw,
even though you have used one time a nail to replace a missing screw.

Fallacy; I nor anyone tried to say that this nail was a screw, but that
it was acting just like one.

I don't know why some of you have to get your nickers in such a pathetic
twist over the dumbest of subjects, expending an incredible amount
effort just to avoid admitting you may be wrong. If you all would loose
the superiority complex and pitch-fork-and-torch mob mentality for 20
seconds you'd see you had this figured quite the wrong way.

- Adam
 
A

Adam Worrall

John said:
How did it function is you all were not obligated to give help? Of course
we're not talking here about help out of the scope of the help desk.

How many times do I have to explain it to you before you get it? We
weren't paid, we were there on our own time. How is this any different
than how a news group generally functions?
And you could come and go when ever you wanted, stay away without calling
in sick. Do nothing the whole day, being rude at everybody without a
single problem?

That's a rather loaded assumption on your part. Why are you assuming we
would come in to be rude? And after I already explained to you that we
had volunteered to help. I mean, I didn't say it was 100% like CLPM, but
that CLPM in general functions in a similar way.

- Adam
 
S

Sherm Pendley

Adam Worrall said:
That's a rather loaded assumption on your part. Why are you assuming
we would come in to be rude?

Why are you assuming that the word "rude" is the only part of John's
message that's relevant?

You keep pointing out that you were not required or expected to be
there, and that's true - as far as it goes. But, once you *were*
there, you were expected to provide help. You were not free to simply
chat. That's what makes a help desk different than this group - here,
we *are* free to simply chat about random Perl topics, ignoring
questions if we don't feel like being helpful today.
I mean, I didn't say it was 100% like
CLPM, but that CLPM in general functions in a similar way.

No, in fact it doesn't. A help desk is where someone can go with the
expectation of having their questions answered directly and without
digression. This is nothing more nor less than a group of people who
happen to be talking about Perl. A lot of people do receive help here,
but no one is entitled to it.

sherm--
 
J

John Bokma

Adam Worrall said:
John Bokma wrote:

Fallacy; I nor anyone tried to say that this nail was a screw, but
that it was acting just like one.

OK, acting as in "false behavior; pretense". Hence it is not a help desk.
(You have one day left, by the way).

So, no fallacy of mine. I just call this nail not a screw, while you
prefer to go on and on how you can sometimes use a nail like a screw.
 
J

John Bokma

Adam Worrall said:
That's a rather loaded assumption on your part. Why are you assuming
we would come in to be rude?

You understand what an example is?
And after I already explained to you that
we had volunteered to help. I mean, I didn't say it was 100% like
CLPM, but that CLPM in general functions in a similar way.

In a similar way is not identical. So there is nothing wrong with people
explaining that this is NOT a helpdesk. It's easier than to write: this is
not a helpdesk, but it in general functions in a similar way like the
voluntary helpdesk Adam Worrall worked at.

But you probably all knew that when you started this trolling. I wonder if
you Perl skills are even close to your command of the English language.
And if you ever could be arsed to contribute in a useful way.

Since your behavior has been trolling, I doubt it.
 
S

Stephan Bour

Sherm Pendley wrote:
::
::: John Bokma wrote:
::::
:::: And you could come and go when ever you wanted, stay away without
:::: calling in sick. Do nothing the whole day, being rude at everybody
:::: without a single problem?
:::
::: That's a rather loaded assumption on your part. Why are you assuming
::: we would come in to be rude?
::
:: Why are you assuming that the word "rude" is the only part of John's
:: message that's relevant?

I can't believe you are asking this. Why are you defending John Bokma when
he clearly made an utterly blind assumption.


:: You keep pointing out that you were not required or expected to be
:: there, and that's true - as far as it goes. But, once you *were*
:: there, you were expected to provide help.

Why are you trying to reinvent someone else's (Adam Worrall's in this case)
experiences, after he already stated that they were not required to give
help. You can't say if anyone on that desk was expected to do anything, as
you were not there, so please do not pretend to be informed about something
you don't know to be true. It make is look like you have some sort of
ulterior agenda.


:: You were not free to simply chat.

You don't know that. They have been able to chat, who knows. I don't, and
neither do you.


:: That's what makes a help desk different than this group

But not necessarily that help desk - you weren't there so you can't reliably
say it was different. Adam Worrall clearly said it functioned in much the
same as this group, so why invent all these other possibilities and ignore
that?


:: we *are* free to simply chat about random Perl topics, ignoring
:: questions if we don't feel like being helpful today.

Again, Worrall already claimed that the desk functioned similarly, please
stop blatantly ignoring what someone else said.


::: I mean, I didn't say it was 100% like
::: CLPM, but that CLPM in general functions in a similar way.
::
:: No, in fact it doesn't.

You Don't Know That (tm)


:: A help desk is where someone can go with the expectation of having
:: their questions answered directly and without digression.
:: This is nothing more nor less than a group of people who
:: happen to be talking about Perl. A lot of people do receive help
:: here, but no one is entitled to it.

Again, you ignored what he has said regarding the desk he was on. You seem
clearly intent on inventing your own version of what he said and completely
ignoring everything else, and then basing all of your points on that
alternate reality.



Stephan.
 
S

Stephan Bour

John Bokma wrote:
::
:: [nothing]

Or rather what you don't want to hear.

:: Ah, another well-known shit stain of this group, I see.

It's nice to see that you obviously endorse the inventing alternate
realities to make points about people...


Stephan.
 
J

John Bokma

^^^^

You couldn't have made my point more clear.
It's nice to see that you obviously endorse the inventing alternate

yeah, the inventing alternate, whatever, shit stain. *ploink*
 

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