color coding of text

[Arne Vajhøj]

There are many reasons people post to Usenet Joerg, maybe they would
like to start a conversation with like minded people but don't know how
to start, maybe they are trying to make some friends, maybe they are not
experienced with search engines and don't know how to sift the wheat
from the chaff. Maybe they are just starting out on Usenet and don't
understand the protocols yet.

A first response of RTFM is not really helpful is it.

And the relevance is?

I mean Lew actually did post a link to the FM and the
exact position in the FM discussing the topic.

It is almost impossible to be more helpful I would say.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Here's the thing, Robert. If we knew that every poster to this NG was a
professional programmer, then even though RTFM is unprofessional, you
could probably tenuously justify saying it. After all, career
programmers should be doing some research before asking questions.

But we don't know that every poster here is a pro. I'll bet quite a few
are not. You might have a guy who works a shitty job who is looking to
improve his marketability by learning a programming language on his own,
for example. Or a parent trying to keep up with her kid's homework.
Under these circumstances using the term RTFM is unhelpful.

Absolutely.

But then Lew did not only post RTFM in his first post.

He also posted a link to the exact page in the manual
with the answer.

That should be pretty useful for the non-pro reader
segment.

(the fact that the page had the answer to the question
in th emessage body and not what OP wanted which was
in the subject muddies the water a bit, but still)

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Plenty of others, including myself managed to reply without giving it
large with the smart arse attitude.

Actually you did not.

In this thread you have posted:
* 1 reply with some general thoughts about editors
which is not really related to OP's question
* 4 replies with various personal attacks
so you seems to be the one in this thread with by far
the worst track record on politeness.

Arne

 

[Lew]

I mean Lew actually did post a link to the FM and the
exact position in the FM discussing the topic.

It is almost impossible to be more helpful I would say.

Furthermore, I found that link by following the more general
search link that I also provided.

Which general search link, and the rest of the FM aforementioned,
do, indeed, answer the "real" question that "don" so politely
wants answered. No matter what the "real" question is.

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

Furthermore, I found that link by following the more general
search link that I also provided.

Which general search link, and the rest of the FM aforementioned,
do, indeed, answer the "real" question that "don" so politely
wants answered. No matter what the "real" question is.

All true, no question. But it would probably help just to provide the
info, and dispense with RTFM. The latter is an abrasive extra dig, and
putting it out there as an acronym is evading the fact that it means
Read The Fucking Manual.

I've never used the term professionally, because it's unprofessional.
It's hackerish and unpleasant.

AHS

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

All true, no question. But it would probably help just to provide the
info, and dispense with RTFM. The latter is an abrasive extra dig, and
putting it out there as an acronym is evading the fact that it means
Read The Fucking Manual.

I've never used the term professionally, because it's unprofessional.

I doubt that Lew does use it professionally.

But is it relevant? Usenet is a different context from work. The
time to respond is different, the code produced is different - so
would it be surprising that language used is different?

Arne

 

[Lew]

Not the highlight color, the *text* color!

I bet you don't speak to people like that in person.

You set up a meeting and I will not only tell you "RTFM"
to your face, I'll throw in a "GIYF" for free.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Read the post again, no RTFM, no abuse, no smart arse comments.


I speak as I find. Get used to it

Maybe you should get used to how Lew posts ...

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 06/01/2013 08:30 AM, Robert Klemme wrote:
On 01.06.2013 10:06, lipska the kat wrote:
On 31/05/13 21:43, Lew wrote:
On Friday, May 31, 2013 1:34:38 PM UTC-7, don wrote:

The advice is sound. Follow it. Get over yourself.

Why can't you just give advice?
Why do you always feel it necessary to behave like
a total arsehole?

[snip]

But then Lew did not only post RTFM in his first post.

He also posted a link to the exact page in the manual
with the answer.

Irrelevant, the link would have sufficed, no need for RTFM

Lew thougth it would be relevant to refer to the concept
of the Fine Manual.

You are welcome to disagree, but his decision what goes
in his reply.

Given how many people have stated that they find his behavior
unacceptable there are two possible reasons for it.

1. He is deliberately being objectionable.
2. He is too thick to realize his mistake.

There is a pretty long history of using RFTM on usenet.

It is not something unique for Lew.

Arne

 

[markspace]

There is a pretty long history of using RFTM on usenet.

It is not something unique for Lew.

For example, it's codified in Eric Raymond's FAQ How to Ask Questions
the Smart Way.

<http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

"RTFM and STFW: How To Tell You've Seriously Screwed Up

"There is an ancient and hallowed tradition: if you get a reply that
reads “RTFM”, the person who sent it thinks you should have Read The
Fucking Manual. He or she is almost certainly right. Go read it.

"RTFM has a younger relative. If you get a reply that reads “STFW”, the
person who sent it thinks you should have Searched The Fucking Web. He
or she is almost certainly right. Go search it.

 

[Robert Klemme]

But we don't know that every poster here is a pro. I'll bet quite a few
are not. You might have a guy who works a shitty job who is looking to
improve his marketability by learning a programming language on his own,
for example. Or a parent trying to keep up with her kid's homework.
Under these circumstances using the term RTFM is unhelpful.

The fact that someone is new to (Java) programming is unrelated to his
ability to deal with unhelpful replies or even inappropriate language.
You make it sound (to me at least) a bit like every programming newbie
is also a newbie when it comes to social interaction. I prefer to
assume persons I interact with to being adult until proven otherwise.

Btw, I'm all for politeness and respect but I think that trying to
police a public forum without access control is bound to fail - worst
case it leads into the opposite direction of the one intended (as
another branch of this discussion exemplifies).

Kind regards

robert

 

[Robert Klemme]

On 01/06/13 23:41, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

I speak as I find. Get used to it

I can't help but point out how ironic this is: you started out asking
someone to improve their language to prevent "lowering the tone of the
group" and end up by asking one "idiot" to "piss off" and suggesting to
"get used to" your language to another.

I guess that also serves as a strong indication that this type of
discussion does not help improving things...

Cheers

robert

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Btw, I'm all for politeness and respect but I think that trying to
police a public forum without access control is bound to fail - worst
case it leads into the opposite direction of the one intended (as
another branch of this discussion exemplifies).

Besides the limited chances of success there is also the question
of where to draw the line.

Object to a term that has been widely used for decades, because
a letter in it *may* represent the word "Fucking" seems to be a
very strict policy. Somewhat out of touch with reality on
the internet in 2013.

Arne

 

[Joerg Meier]

[snip]

You are not helping either by labelling people as thugs just because you
don't like them.

Piss off Lars you idiot.

Good job proving Lars right. Frankly, I find Lew considerably less grating
than you "holier than thou" knights who use him as an excuse to put others
down. Nobody likes Netcops. The nonstop arguments you guys start over Lew's
really comparatively mild attitude problems are a lot more disruptive to
this groups health than simply ignoring him would be.

Liebe Gruesse,
Joerg

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Well this is all very interesting I'm sure.

Trying to intellectualize this issue only serves to entrench this sort
of behavior.

I only ever respond in kind, check it out, it's easy enough.
I couldn't care less what your academics say, there is simply no need
for a first response of RTFM.

Trying to obfuscate the issue by turning it around and making it my
problem doesn't phase me one bit, I know I'm right.

It's called 'having the courage of ones convictions'

Sounds exactly like Lew!



Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

[snip]

You are not helping either by labelling people as thugs just because you
don't like them.

Piss off Lars you idiot.

Good job proving Lars right. Frankly, I find Lew considerably less grating
than you "holier than thou" knights who use him as an excuse to put others
down. Nobody likes Netcops. The nonstop arguments you guys start over Lew's
really comparatively mild attitude problems are a lot more disruptive to
this groups health than simply ignoring him would be.

The funny thing is that Lew can occasionally be extremely harsh, but
in this thread he only used a few RTFM.

Arne

 

[Lew]

I only ever respond in kind, check it out, it's easy enough.
I couldn't care less what your academics say, there is simply no need
for a first response of RTFM.

Unless of course you want to give the one single piece of advice that will
help the OP the most.

 

[Lew]

If you don't think a topic worthy of your time why do you bother to respond.

Interrogatives should end in a question mark ("?").

Your premise is false, so the conclusion does not follow. Not only
did I find the topic worthy of my time, I provided a query which I
personally vetted, pulled the single most relevant link from the
search results from that query and provided it, and gave the one single
piece of advice that would help the OP the most: RTFM.

Read the *FUCKING* manual!

A simple link to a relevant resource would suffice.

Actually, no, it wouldn't. Give a man a fish, and you only feed him
for one meal. I gave him a fishing line and showed him how to fish.

I just can't see the point of all the snarky comments.

Then for God's sake, stop making them!

There's nothing "snarky" about giving the one single piece of advice
that will help the OP the most. Just because you keep saying over
and over again that the comment was "snarky" just because you personally
have a bug up your ass about me doesn't make it true.

Have you tried reading the fucking manual yourself, Mr. Hides-Behind-an-
Anonymous-Handle? Didn't you find it actually empowered you to do so?

 

[Rajiv Gupta]

The threads title "color coding of text" might've been a clue…

Just sayin.

BTW, telling someone to "RTFM" is abusive.

Period.

That is why you don't say it to someone's face.

Get over it.

Don't worry about him. He is just a pedant who appears to have become
stuck in a Java warp and hasn't progressed to more advanced and
productive programming languages. He can't be much good as a programmer
either, because he spends way too much time on usenet being a prick.

Rajiv