Combining The Best Of Python, Ruby, & Java??????

Discussion in 'Python' started by Tim Daneliuk, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. Tim Daneliuk

    Tim Daneliuk Guest

    Tim Daneliuk, Jun 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. Tim Daneliuk

    Guest

    , Jun 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. Tim Daneliuk

    Ravi Teja Guest

    Ravi Teja, Jun 13, 2006
    #3
  4. wrote:
    > Scala seems terse and fast enough, few examples:
    >
    > http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4sandbox/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=psyco&lang2=scala
    >
    > Bye,
    > bearophile


    Static typing, type inference, "sequence comprehensions"...
    Looks that there's a new crop of programming languages on top of the
    main .NET and JAVA with these characteristics.
    This one seems to be following the trend initiated by Nemerle and Boo.
    The good thing about these languages is that they offer the performance
    of static languages, with the feel of dynamic ones.
    Thanks to their local type inference, you don't have to declare types
    or return types so often, and with generics, type castings are also
    reduced to a minimum.
    Anyway, I think that from a python programmer perspective, those
    looking for a static language for .NET or Mono would find Boo more
    appealing.
    For example, I use it for writing extenssions for Ironpython when I
    need more performance.
    =?iso-8859-1?q?Luis_M._Gonz=E1lez?=, Jun 13, 2006
    #4
  5. Tim Daneliuk

    Paul McGuire Guest

    "Tim Daneliuk" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > So it is claimed:
    >
    >

    http://www.infoq.com/news/Scala--co...-;jsessionid=CC7C8366455E67B04EE5864B7319F5EC
    >
    > Has anyone taken a look at this that can provide a meaningful contrast
    > with Python?


    Ok, here's the Hello World example from the Scala website:

    object HelloWorld {
    def main(args: Array[String]) = {
    Console.println("Hello, world!")
    }
    }

    Opening and closing braces?
    "def main(args: Array[String])"?
    Console.println?

    About the only Pythonic thing I can see here is the "def" keyword.
    Otherwise, it looks too much like Java - no, thanks!

    -- Paul
    Paul McGuire, Jun 13, 2006
    #5
  6. Tim Daneliuk

    Ravi Teja Guest

    > Ok, here's the Hello World example from the Scala website:
    >
    > object HelloWorld {
    > def main(args: Array[String]) = {
    > Console.println("Hello, world!")
    > }
    > }
    >
    > Opening and closing braces?
    > "def main(args: Array[String])"?
    > Console.println?
    >
    > About the only Pythonic thing I can see here is the "def" keyword.
    > Otherwise, it looks too much like Java - no, thanks!
    >
    > -- Paul


    Don't be too harsh on it though. It is a language built for the
    JVM/CLR. The author perhaps intended the library to be natural to the
    users of the respective SDKs regardless of its' aesthetics and it
    explicitly seems to provide a unified API for Java and .NET. Of course,
    that is nothing new. Many languages have interchangeable backends for
    these platforms these days but there seems to be a specific focus on
    that here. The syntax does resemble Java/C#, which is also important if
    you want buy in from the Java/C# crowd.

    But semantically it is a proper functional language. The features may
    not attract Python users who might prefer Boo/Jython/IronPython. But it
    does offer something to disillusioned Groovy users.

    But on the other hand, there are some neat features even for Python
    programmers.
    Tail recursion
    Pattern matching
    Currrying
    Macros
    Concurrency
    Native XML support

    Of course, you can get by without some of these in Python with
    workarounds, libraries or hacks.
    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/496691
    http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0309/ (in 2.5)
    http://logix.livelogix.com/ (offline)
    Ravi Teja, Jun 13, 2006
    #6
  7. > But semantically it is a proper functional language. The features may
    > not attract Python users who might prefer Boo/Jython/IronPython. But it
    > does offer something to disillusioned Groovy users.


    Are they disillusioned? Just wondering.

    Diez
    Diez B. Roggisch, Jun 13, 2006
    #7
  8. Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
    > > But semantically it is a proper functional language. The features may
    > > not attract Python users who might prefer Boo/Jython/IronPython. But it
    > > does offer something to disillusioned Groovy users.

    >
    > Are they disillusioned? Just wondering.
    >
    > Diez


    Whay talking about disillutioned programmers?
    These are tools, not religions...
    I love python, and I like it more everyday. And with the advent of
    Pypy, its future looks brighter than ever.
    But I also find very interesting these new options that are coming up.
    Although I'm not a professional programmer (not even a serious
    aficionado), I love to be able to translate my python skills very
    easily to .NET through Boo, for example.
    I even find it more appealing than Ironpython, because it was created
    from the ground up to take advantage of the CLR.
    On the other hand, porting pure python to .NET is in many aspects like
    trying to fit a square on a circle (I don't know if this sentence makes
    sense in english...).
    Because many of the design choices taken by GvR back in the early
    nineties were surely conditioned by the platform he chose to write
    python, which is the c language.
    The good thing is that python is having a lot of influence in these new
    languages.
    As far as I could see, even C# 3.0 is showing up some pythonic traits.
    =?iso-8859-1?q?Luis_M._Gonz=E1lez?=, Jun 13, 2006
    #8
  9. Tim Daneliuk

    Ravi Teja Guest

    Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
    > > But semantically it is a proper functional language. The features may
    > > not attract Python users who might prefer Boo/Jython/IronPython. But it
    > > does offer something to disillusioned Groovy users.

    >
    > Are they disillusioned? Just wondering.


    Nah! Just a poor passing attempt at humor. Groovy is a great language
    too. I should watch out. Maybe Groovy programmers have knives too :).
    http://cardboard.nu/blog/2005_02_02/gosling_on_jvm_scripting.html
    Ravi Teja, Jun 13, 2006
    #9
  10. Tim Daneliuk

    Ravi Teja Guest

    Luis M. González wrote:
    > Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
    > > > But semantically it is a proper functional language. The features may
    > > > not attract Python users who might prefer Boo/Jython/IronPython. But it
    > > > does offer something to disillusioned Groovy users.

    > >
    > > Are they disillusioned? Just wondering.
    > >
    > > Diez

    >
    > Whay talking about disillutioned programmers?
    > These are tools, not religions...
    > I love python, and I like it more everyday. And with the advent of
    > Pypy, its future looks brighter than ever.
    > But I also find very interesting these new options that are coming up.
    > Although I'm not a professional programmer (not even a serious
    > aficionado), I love to be able to translate my python skills very
    > easily to .NET through Boo, for example.
    > I even find it more appealing than Ironpython, because it was created
    > from the ground up to take advantage of the CLR.
    > On the other hand, porting pure python to .NET is in many aspects like
    > trying to fit a square on a circle (I don't know if this sentence makes
    > sense in english...).
    > Because many of the design choices taken by GvR back in the early
    > nineties were surely conditioned by the platform he chose to write
    > python, which is the c language.
    > The good thing is that python is having a lot of influence in these new
    > languages.
    > As far as I could see, even C# 3.0 is showing up some pythonic traits.


    I did not realize the flame potential of that remark. Just to clarify,
    I have no criticism of any kind on Groovy. I mentioned Groovy since
    Scala, the original topic of the thread addresses the needs of the same
    group (a modern language with a Java friendly syntax). I am not a
    language bigot. Note that I am defending Scala, a new language, in this
    thread so far. I do not want this thread to break into a language war
    from my remark. I hope that Python gets some of the features listed in
    my above post in it's own unique Pythonic way eventually. The
    discussion perhaps is more constructive if we can see some good in
    Scala that is worth adopting.
    Ravi Teja, Jun 13, 2006
    #10
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