Compensating the Firefox - MSIE gap

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Thorben Grosser, Feb 19, 2005.

  1. Hello NG again,

    after messing a bit around, I got a quite satisfying result on my page
    which works good for both, MSIE and Firefox. Now I rebuilt the page in
    my CMS and checked it again for HTML4 vailidity and got a positive
    result. In fact, HTML-Conform always meant for me: Looks good on every
    browser.

    http://gosingen.dyndns.tv/ce-page/

    If you look at this link, it actually doesn't at all. Any explainations
    whats actually wrong or how to work it out?

    so long
    Thorben
    Thorben Grosser, Feb 19, 2005
    #1
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  2. On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:09:36 +0100, Thorben Grosser <> wrote:

    > Hello NG again,
    >
    > after messing a bit around, I got a quite satisfying result on my page which
    > works good for both, MSIE and Firefox. Now I rebuilt the page in my CMS and
    > checked it again for HTML4 vailidity and got a positive result. In fact,
    > HTML-Conform always meant for me: Looks good on every browser.
    >


    No, html is for structuring your content. Has nothing to do with looks, although
    mistakes can influence looks because they cause wrong rendering.
    Besides, how do you make your pages look good in Lynx, in other plaint text
    browsers, in braille browsers or in aural browsers? Well structured and valid
    pages guarantee that they can be accessed and used in all sorts of browsers.

    > http://gosingen.dyndns.tv/ce-page/
    >
    > If you look at this link, it actually doesn't at all. Any explainations whats
    > actually wrong or how to work it out?
    >


    Well, for one: the page is in quirks mode:
    <http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/doctypes.html>
    <http://diveintomark.org/archives/2002/05/29/quirks_mode>

    Secondly, never expect to be able to render a pixel perfect design exactly the
    same in all browsers out there. Just make sure it works everywhere (correct
    markup) and looks nice in the modern and mainstream graphical browsers (for
    other OS than just Windows too). It doesn't really matter if it looks the same
    in various browsers or not, because your visitor has the habit of coming to your
    pages with just one browser anyway. If it works in that browser and looks kinda
    nice, it's fine with that visitor, so it should be fine for you too.

    What helps is to make a page design as flexible and fluid as possible:
    <http://www.google.com/search?q=liquid+OR+fluid+design>

    What also helps is to internalise the idea that your control on how your pages
    are rendered is actually very little. All one can do is provide properly
    structured and meaningful markup and some nice CSS to create the looks and feel
    for the mainstream graphical UA.

    --
    ,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
    | weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
    `-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
    Barbara de Zoete, Feb 19, 2005
    #2
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  3. Barbara de Zoete wrote:

    > Besides, how do you make your pages look good in Lynx, in other plaint
    > text browsers, in braille browsers or in aural browsers? Well


    so far. sometimes people overestimate or understand wrong the use of
    html, actually in lynx the page looks quite good I think :) well, the
    navigation doesnt properly show up the difference between menue and sub
    menue, but, for this kind of page, lynx is quite neglectable.

    >> http://gosingen.dyndns.tv/ce-page/
    >>
    >> If you look at this link, it actually doesn't at all. Any
    >> explainations whats actually wrong or how to work it out?

    > What helps is to make a page design as flexible and fluid as possible:
    > <http://www.google.com/search?q=liquid+OR+fluid+design>


    very very very good :)

    BUT: my point still is: I started the page with a sketch
    (http://gosingen.dyndns.tv/cinevent/website/) which looked fine in both,
    MSIE and Firefox. As I have learned through the years doing websites,
    most people are using one of both. At least my "clientele". Now I pushed
    it to my CMS without changing too much. And now it looks weird in MSIE.
    So that damn CMS (which acutally works quite good, phpWcms, worth a try)
    must have changed something. The point is, I dont know what and I have
    no idea how to figure it out. Perhaps I lack of imagination :)

    thorben
    Thorben Grosser, Feb 19, 2005
    #3
  4. Thorben Grosser

    rf Guest

    "Thorben Grosser" <> wrote

    > http://gosingen.dyndns.tv/ce-page/
    >
    > If you look at this link, it actually doesn't at all.


    It "actually doens't" what at all? That sentence does not scan.

    Which browser are you having problems with. What is the problem, in detail,
    or are we to guess.

    > Any explainations
    > whats actually wrong or how to work it out?


    The first thing I see is that you have an invalid doctype (a missing URL).
    This puts IE into quirks mode and who knows what happens there.

    You also should be writing to the strict doctype for new pages.

    <looks further down>

    Oh my. You used dreamweaver to generate this, didn't you. Well you can
    expect what you get then :)
    rf, Feb 19, 2005
    #4
  5. rf wrote:
    > The first thing I see is that you have an invalid doctype (a missing URL).


    The URL in the Doctype is optional (for PUBLIC Doctypes), so it isn't
    invalid but it does have the side effect of ...

    > This puts IE into quirks mode and who knows what happens there.


    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
    David Dorward, Feb 19, 2005
    #5
  6. On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:24:27 +0100, Thorben Grosser <> wrote:

    > Barbara de Zoete wrote:
    >
    >> Besides, how do you make your pages look good in Lynx, in other plaint text
    >> browsers, in braille browsers or in aural browsers? Well

    >
    > so far. sometimes people overestimate or understand wrong the use of html,


    Better be careful with this. I for one am very sure I understand fully the
    proper use of html. More likely people underestimate the actual power of html:
    giving meaning to elements and structuring pages in to firm constructs that are
    accessible to all that want to get to the content.
    Using tables for layout purposes is a sign one underestimates.

    > actually in lynx the page looks quite good I think :) well, the navigation
    > doesnt properly show up the difference between menue and sub menue,


    There you go.

    > but, for this kind of page, lynx is quite neglectable.
    >


    Sure. If you insist.

    > BUT:


    Please don't shout.

    > my point still is: I started the page with a sketch which looked fine in both,
    > MSIE and Firefox.


    There is no point to explain where it started, is there? After all, it is the
    end product you are not happy with. If you still have them both, run them
    through a proper text editor to find what the differences are between the two
    files. Or do you expect someone to do that for you?

    > And now it looks weird in MSIE.


    And you tried putting IE back to standards mode, like I suggested you could try
    in my previous post, right?


    --
    ,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
    | weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
    `-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
    Barbara de Zoete, Feb 19, 2005
    #6
  7. Barbara de Zoete wrote:

    >> BUT:

    >
    >
    > Please don't shout.


    sorry. a million times sorry for that :)

    >> And now it looks weird in MSIE.

    >
    >
    > And you tried putting IE back to standards mode, like I suggested you
    > could try in my previous post, right?


    well yes, I did. And I played around with that CSS thingie and had to
    notice that MSIE and FF have both very different opinions on it. Thanks
    a lot for your advice, there were some great ideas I will now work on :)

    t
    Thorben Grosser, Feb 19, 2005
    #7
  8. Thorben Grosser

    Fred Guest

    Check your print preview in FireFox
    It's a bit funky


    On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:09:36 +0100, Thorben Grosser
    <> wrote:

    >Hello NG again,
    >
    >after messing a bit around, I got a quite satisfying result on my page
    >which works good for both, MSIE and Firefox. Now I rebuilt the page in
    >my CMS and checked it again for HTML4 vailidity and got a positive
    >result. In fact, HTML-Conform always meant for me: Looks good on every
    >browser.
    >
    >http://gosingen.dyndns.tv/ce-page/
    >
    >If you look at this link, it actually doesn't at all. Any explainations
    >whats actually wrong or how to work it out?
    >
    >so long
    >Thorben
    Fred, Feb 19, 2005
    #8
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