Confused

J

Jim Scott

Just downloaded the latest version (0.9 for Win). Very promising.
Seems to have some bugs though:
- I can't specify ";" as delimiter in the conversion of text to tables
- After applying a class to a paragraph and pressing the Enter key, the
class is duplicated in the new paragraph
- In 'Preferences' chosen for 'CSS instead of HTML'. When creating a two
row/two column table however I had to remove all the HTML-attributes in the
dialogue. Result:
<table style="text-align: left; width: 100%;" border="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="undefined"
valign="undefined"></td>
<td align="undefined"
valign="undefined"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align="undefined"
valign="undefined"></td>
<td align="undefined"
valign="undefined"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>


I can set up *everything* in Notepad :)


Use the target attribute:
<base target="xxx"> in the head section
or <a href="start.htm" target="xxx">
Replace xxx with the name of the target frame

Thank you.
Yes Nvu is still buggy and the one you quote re:valign etc is a pain, but
it's only version 0.9. Did you spot the built in CSS editor?
It also won't edit frames, but now I can live with that and I'm not sure FP
did.
One nice thing is that it will Validate directly from tools so bugs like
you mentioned can be fix quickly.
 
T

Travis Newbury

kchayka said:
Hey, aren't you the one who was whining in another thread about flexible
layouts because you always use full-size windows?

Nope, I was the one that said they always had their browser window open
to full screen and I did not like needing to change it to be able to see
a flexible design. I never said I did not change the browser size to
make it readable. As a matter of fact if you go over the thread you
will see where I stated it was not a big deal to change it, and that is
what I usually did. You obviously missed my point in that thread, which
was pointing out the inconsistency of the use of the statement "Don't
touch my browser" which is thrown around here so often.

So how do you feel about it? Do you simply do what you have to do to
make it readable or do you just leave the site, never to return because
the [insert something here] was not exactly like you wanted it to be?
 
J

Joel Shepherd

Travis Newbury said:
So how do you feel about it? Do you simply do what you have to do to
make it readable or do you just leave the site, never to return because
the [insert something here] was not exactly like you wanted it to be?

If I 'need' the content and don't think it likely to get it elsewhere,
I'll adjust things a bit (which can mean disabling stylesheets, etc.: no
guarantee the page author 'wins').

If I'm likely to find similar content elsewhere, I will leave an
annoying site, no question. E.g., if I'm poking around for a recipe for
dinner, there is no reason to put up with crap: I'll find a recipe
somewhere else. If the site is annoying, but not painfully so, I might
stay, but will mentally flag it as a site to avoid if possible.
Naturally, this evaluation happens in a split second: it takes much
longer to describe it than it does to apply it.

Note, though, it's not a question of things not being exactly how I'd
like. E.g., I don't especially like patterned or dark-colored
backgrounds, but if the text is easily readable I won't go running off.
But, if I have to squint, or scroll horizontally, or deal with a bunch
of distractions, or wait forever for the page to load, yeah: that's
annoying and I will bail if possible.
 
T

Travis Newbury

Joel said:
If I'm likely to find similar content elsewhere, I will leave an
annoying site, no question...

I agree, but very rarely do I find a site that is annoying enough to
have me leave.
...But, if I have to squint, or scroll horizontally, or deal with a bunch
of distractions, or wait forever for the page to load, yeah: that's
annoying and I will bail if possible.

Squinting, I press "crtl +" and the issue is usually resolved. The
horizontal scrolling is a pain in the butt and I would probalby leave.
But since I have my browser full screen that almost never happens. And
I live for the distractions (like flash etc....) I think they are fun
and I actually enjoy seeing how people use them. But then one man's
distractions are another man's... um... well they are another man's
something. As far as waiting is concerned. I leave pretty quick if a
page does not come up fast.
 
K

kchayka

Travis said:
So how do you feel about it? Do you simply do what you have to do to
make it readable or do you just leave the site, never to return because
the [insert something here] was not exactly like you wanted it to be?

It depends on the site, how bad the design breaks or how annoying the
[insert something here] is, and how badly I want their particular content.

Google groups is a good example of a horrible design that I am willing
to fight because they have content I can't get elsewhere.

The only other thing I'm willing to put up with is microfonts, an
*extremely* common problem. If text zoom doesn't break the layout, I
might hang around even if I have to adjust the window size a bit, but it
depends on the content. If I can get it elsewhere, I'd just as soon go.

For most other things, I'm likely to go elsewhere as soon as the [insert
something here] reveals itself.
 
K

kchayka

Nico said:
An average website has a menu column on the left or on top taking 20-30% of
the screen. No difference compared with a frame for the thumbs.

There is a difference, though.

Without frames, you can scroll the navbar column off screen so you can
probably fit a large image within the viewport.

Can't do that with frames.
 
J

joy beeson

(This is not to say I don't agree with what Lauri said, only that I
don't put anywhere near the importance on it as others seem to on being
slightly inconvenienced)

As has been said elsethread, it all depends on who your
audience is. An e-mail correspondent recently demanded
that I translate all the arcane, obscure, geekly technical
terms I'd used in my latest message so that he could get
some inkling as to what I'd said.

One of those obscure terms was "browser". Another was
"light bulb", as in "I use PC-Write because trying to read
with a 21st-Century word processor is like trying to read
the logo on a light bulb." (Yes, gang, I *do* dial the
brightness down. Backlit letters just don't cut it.)

If such a person comes to your Web page, he is not going to
"do something" without step-by-step directions.

Joy Beeson
 
T

Travis Newbury

kchayka said:
Google groups is a good example of a horrible design that I am willing
to fight because they have content I can't get elsewhere.

Google groups blows. We are in complete agreement there!
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Thomas said:
Question from a total novoice: What is GoogleBot?

That would be the crawler .. spider .. robot .. from Google that
visits your web pages in order to index them, so they will/might
appear at google.com when someone enters keywords that your pages use.
 
A

Andy Dingley

That would be the crawler .. spider .. robot .. from Google that
visits your web pages in order to index them,

One of two (at least) crawlers from Google. The one used to drive
AdSense is different.

If you run a message board with AdSense ads on it, then you might
allow the main indexer to crawl it, but you should probably bar the
AdSense crawler. Otherwise there's a risk of comments you don't
control influencing the AdSense content you're serving.
 
M

Michael De Tomaso

How about a google to google :)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&oi=defmore&q=define:Googlebot

Definitions of Googlebot on the Web:
a.. the crawler Google uses on a daily basis to find and index new web
pages.
abelgraphics.co.uk/seo/glossary.php

b.. Google, Inc. , is a U.S.-based corporation, established in 1998, that
manages the Google search engine. Google is headquartered at the
"Googleplex" in Mountain View, California, and employs over 3,000 workers.
Google's CEO Dr. Eric Schmidt, formerly CEO of Novell, took over when
co-founder Larry Page stepped down.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlebot
- take care M.D.
 

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