content management

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Vince Morgan, Apr 7, 2007.

  1. Vince Morgan

    Vince Morgan Guest

    Hi,
    recently I was given the task of redesigning the layout of a
    companies website.
    Having completed the layout, a problem has begun to raize it's head. My
    programming experience prior to this has been with compiled executables.
    Having said that, you may understand why I have never had to consider
    content management.
    From month to month, and at other intervals, the content of some pages will
    change. Text, pics etc. The persons responsible for changing it have no
    knowledge of the underlying html and css, and to my horror recently began
    recreating the front page with some piece of %$$# html editor in order to
    update it.
    Admittedly I did realize that the content would change from time to time,
    but I am a newbie in this field and had/have, no idea how to guide them in
    this regard.
    Currently I am managing the changing content personaly while I find a
    solution, but this cannot continue, as I'm sure you understand.
    I'm sure that those of you here with much more experience than I have to
    deal with this on a regular basis and some guidance in this regard would be
    very highly appreciated.
    TIA
    Vince Morgan
    Vince Morgan, Apr 7, 2007
    #1
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  2. Vince Morgan wrote:
    > Hi,
    > recently I was given the task of redesigning the layout of a
    > companies website.
    > Having completed the layout, a problem has begun to raize it's head. My
    > programming experience prior to this has been with compiled executables.
    > Having said that, you may understand why I have never had to consider
    > content management.


    IMHO you need to contact a professional webdesigner. It's never good
    practice to start a redesign without considering all the needs the new
    website should satisfy. This is not a question of having a CMS or not,
    but more a question of project-management you are facing. You don't need
    to start from scratch, but I would ask a professional webdesign agency
    to deal with it.

    HTH
    bernhard


    --
    www.daszeichen.ch
    remove nixspam to reply
    Bernhard Sturm, Apr 7, 2007
    #2
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  3. Vince Morgan

    Vince Morgan Guest

    "Bernhard Sturm" <> wrote in message
    news:ev86bs$6a2$...

    > IMHO you need to contact a professional webdesigner. It's never good
    > practice to start a redesign without considering all the needs the new
    > website should satisfy. This is not a question of having a CMS or not,
    > but more a question of project-management you are facing. You don't need
    > to start from scratch, but I would ask a professional webdesign agency
    > to deal with it.
    >
    > HTH
    > bernhard


    I should explain.
    I was originaly engaged to write and rewrite some scripts and forms for this
    companies database. Parts of the website are dynamic (php) and I was asked
    to fix a problem at the backend.
    The site was originally created by a webdesign company that specializes in
    database integration etc. However, with all undue respect the site was
    rubbish in the extreme. The code was almost purely html 1, even thought it
    was written in 2005, and the php looked as though a child had written it.
    Yes, they got shafted.
    They asked me to make an additional page and liked the layout, so piece by
    piece I ended up redoing most of the front end.
    Web technologies are not my thing and I didn't plan to or expect to find
    myself doing this.
    However, that was then, and now I need to find a solution.
    As much as I agree with your sentiments, it's not an option.
    Regards,
    Vince Morgan
    Vince Morgan, Apr 7, 2007
    #3
  4. Vince Morgan

    Chaddy2222 Guest

    On Apr 8, 12:03 am, "Vince Morgan" <>
    wrote:
    > "Bernhard Sturm" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:ev86bs$6a2$...
    >
    > > IMHO you need to contact a professional webdesigner. It's never good
    > > practice to start a redesign without considering all the needs the new
    > > website should satisfy. This is not a question of having a CMS or not,
    > > but more a question of project-management you are facing. You don't need
    > > to start from scratch, but I would ask a professional webdesign agency
    > > to deal with it.

    >
    > > HTH
    > > bernhard

    >
    > I should explain.
    > I was originaly engaged to write and rewrite some scripts and forms for this
    > companies database. Parts of the website are dynamic (php) and I was asked
    > to fix a problem at the backend.
    > The site was originally created by a webdesign company that specializes in
    > database integration etc. However, with all undue respect the site was
    > rubbish in the extreme. The code was almost purely html 1, even thought it
    > was written in 2005, and the php looked as though a child had written it.
    > Yes, they got shafted.
    > They asked me to make an additional page and liked the layout, so piece by
    > piece I ended up redoing most of the front end.
    > Web technologies are not my thing and I didn't plan to or expect to find
    > myself doing this.
    > However, that was then, and now I need to find a solution.
    > As much as I agree with your sentiments, it's not an option.

    If you already know PHP and if you are already useing a DB for parts
    of the site. Then just make a CMS (content management system), or just
    install one and customise it for your needs. Drupal and PHP Website
    are ment to be good, I have used Mambo a little in the past, but some
    will be better then others and customiseing them can be a pane.
    The other option for more static things would be an includes type
    system and to just use a decent WYSIWYG editor, such as KompoZer (the
    unofficial bug fix for NVU.
    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc
    Chaddy2222, Apr 7, 2007
    #4
  5. Vince Morgan wrote:

    > They asked me to make an additional page and liked the layout, so piece by
    > piece I ended up redoing most of the front end.
    > Web technologies are not my thing and I didn't plan to or expect to find
    > myself doing this.


    Hmmm.. I don't want to be offensive, but I have heard such stories in
    the past quite many times. It's the typical story of an 'organically'
    grown structure of a website.
    The needs of a website change, and nobody wants to spend some money,
    because someone 'handy' and half-knowledgable is at hands to 'fix' or to
    adapt the site to the grown needs.

    However, as a professional myself, this is not a fruitful way and leads
    to a lot frutstration. Guranteed. As you just seem to witness. The fact,
    that you state that 'web technologies are not my thing' should give you
    a warning. If it's not your 'thing' then why are you trying to do it? In
    many terms this is unwise, and you will provoke probably more harm than
    doing good for the company in question. IMHO: ask them to spend some
    money on it, hire a pro and let him do it.
    It's all a question of priority: if they think of themselves as
    professionals in their business, then they should also work with
    professionals. If this is not the case, and they don't consider the site
    as important for them, then you are on the perfect right track :)

    cheers
    bernhard


    --
    www.daszeichen.ch
    remove nixspam to reply
    Bernhard Sturm, Apr 7, 2007
    #5
  6. Vince Morgan

    Vince Morgan Guest

    "Chaddy2222" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If you already know PHP and if you are already useing a DB for parts
    > of the site. Then just make a CMS (content management system), or just
    > install one and customise it for your needs. Drupal and PHP Website
    > are ment to be good, I have used Mambo a little in the past, but some
    > will be better then others and customiseing them can be a pane.
    > The other option for more static things would be an includes type
    > system and to just use a decent WYSIWYG editor, such as KompoZer (the
    > unofficial bug fix for NVU.
    > --
    > Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc
    >

    Thanks Chad, I'll check them all out ASAP.
    Regards,
    Vince
    Vince Morgan, Apr 8, 2007
    #6
  7. Vince Morgan

    Vince Morgan Guest

    "Bernhard Sturm" <> wrote in message
    news:ev8cm3$kr0$...
    > Hmmm.. I don't want to be offensive, but I have heard such stories in
    > the past quite many times. It's the typical story of an 'organically'
    > grown structure of a website.
    > The needs of a website change, and nobody wants to spend some money,
    > because someone 'handy' and half-knowledgable is at hands to 'fix' or to
    > adapt the site to the grown needs.
    >
    > However, as a professional myself, this is not a fruitful way and leads
    > to a lot frutstration. Guranteed. As you just seem to witness. The fact,
    > that you state that 'web technologies are not my thing' should give you
    > a warning. If it's not your 'thing' then why are you trying to do it? In
    > many terms this is unwise, and you will provoke probably more harm than
    > doing good for the company in question. IMHO: ask them to spend some
    > money on it, hire a pro and let him do it.
    > It's all a question of priority: if they think of themselves as
    > professionals in their business, then they should also work with
    > professionals. If this is not the case, and they don't consider the site
    > as important for them, then you are on the perfect right track :)
    >
    > cheers
    > bernhard

    No offence taken Bernhard.
    I'll relate a short story if I may. Well, I guess I'm going to anyway :)
    The director of this company has a son who is a C/C++ programmer. He is
    responsible for coding, and hiring for a relatively large firm that writes
    secure transactional software for financial institutions.
    Some time back the director told me that his son had told him that he had
    recently interviewed over a half dozen candidates for a position as a C
    coder. One of these candidates had been coding in C for ten years, and all
    of them had impressive qualifications.
    He presented them with a block of code consisting of four interelated
    functions and asked them to spot the errors. These were very basic errors
    that any C programmer should spot immediately.
    None, and I do mean not one, found any whatsoever..
    I do not consider myself a C programmer, I write mainly C++ and thought I
    had probably forgotten most of what I had learned of C long ago. However, I
    spotted the errors immediately, and to his (son's) embarrasment also noticed
    that he had used an incorrect type for a string length parameter that wasn't
    meant to be one of the errors. I still don't consider myself a professional
    C programmer by a long shot.

    The company paid good money for the site in question and to be perfectly
    honest it was a piece of &*$@# by any standards.
    So, I think you may be able to understand why this company has very little
    faith in "profesional" web developers
    My previous experience with html was in the days when a child could learn
    all there was to know in the time it takes to peel an orange, and prior to a
    certain very large software develloper trying to continualy re-invent the
    web wheel for their own commercial purposes. I lost interest rapidly when
    that began to happen. And I am to this day quite disgusted with what they
    have "achieved" in this regard, and the pain and grief it has caused to real
    profesionals like yourself. This is the primary reason I consider it "not
    my thing".

    As I mentioned previously, I was asked to have a look at an apparently small
    problem with some php code on this companies web site. It wasn't difficult
    to fix, but having now looked through some of the script I couldn't help
    noticing how porely written it was. I then began to look into the html, and
    was appalled.
    Having related the above I'm sure that you can understand why this company
    has very little faith today in web devellopers.
    I do realize that there are some extremely articulate and profesional web
    devellopers out there, as there are also excellent C programmers, however,
    as my dad once said, "there are a lot of fish in the ocean, but sometimes
    there's a lot of water between them".

    Your are right Bernhard, no doubt about it. And I've had my share of grief
    already with this. But I was offered the job of fixing it, and foolishly
    perhaps,I accepted the challenge. I'm afraid I am now in this now to the
    end, and as much as I agree with your sentiments and judgement, I need to
    learn the solutions whether I like it or not.

    Thank you again,
    Regards,
    Vince
    Vince Morgan, Apr 8, 2007
    #7
  8. Vince, you may want to check out some Open Source content management
    solutions. I use a lot of open-source server-side stuff like PHPBB and
    PHPLIST, also OpenOffice's suite of apps.

    OS is slowly "coming of age".

    Not sure where CMS is at right now, wrt open source, but it may be worth
    checking out.

    Here's one: http://opensourcecms.com/
    Another: http://plone.org/
    And good ol' Joomla: http://www.joomla.org/


    OR: go to GetAFreelancer.com or any other contact-bid placement center and
    hire a coder in India to write you a CMS system from scratch. Competition
    is big, prices small.
    Simply Confusing!, Apr 8, 2007
    #8
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