could anyone recommend a tool and a book for web-make

Discussion in 'HTML' started by lixiaoyao, Jul 12, 2006.

  1. lixiaoyao

    lixiaoyao Guest

    hi all
    I am beginner for html, I want to make a website for myself, could
    anyone recommend a tool for it and also an introduction book? I
    appreciate it.
    Thanks
    B
     
    lixiaoyao, Jul 12, 2006
    #1
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  2. lixiaoyao

    BlueC Guest

    lixiaoyao wrote:
    > hi all
    > I am beginner for html, I want to make a website for myself, could
    > anyone recommend a tool for it and also an introduction book? I
    > appreciate it.
    > Thanks
    > B


    If you are serious about learning HTML then use a simple text editor.
    Notepad will do to start with. I personally like Crimson Editor because
    it is free, stable, fast, and has many nice functions, others will like
    other applications. It's horses for courses.

    Personally I think if you are trying to learn HTML you should steer well
    clear of WYSIWYG editors like Dreamweaver. If you just want to learn how
    to build a website and don't care about the HTML then WYSIWYG is useful,
    but you won't ever understand HTML properly that way.

    *Don't go anywhere near FrontPage or other MS products, they don't
    produce correct HTML.*

    I have never read a HTML book (I have bought them, but I don't learn
    well from books, I learn from doing) and I think www.w3schools.com is
    hard to beat for the beginner trying to learn HTML and CSS (and more).

    --
    BC
     
    BlueC, Jul 12, 2006
    #2
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  3. lixiaoyao

    Andrew Guest

    On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 23:18:11 +0100, BlueC <> wrote:

    >lixiaoyao wrote:
    >> hi all
    >> I am beginner for html, I want to make a website for myself, could
    >> anyone recommend a tool for it and also an introduction book? I
    >> appreciate it.
    >> Thanks
    >> B

    >
    >If you are serious about learning HTML then use a simple text editor.
    >Notepad will do to start with. I personally like Crimson Editor because
    >it is free, stable, fast, and has many nice functions, others will like
    >other applications. It's horses for courses.
    >
    >Personally I think if you are trying to learn HTML you should steer well
    >clear of WYSIWYG editors like Dreamweaver. If you just want to learn how
    >to build a website and don't care about the HTML then WYSIWYG is useful,
    >but you won't ever understand HTML properly that way.
    >
    >*Don't go anywhere near FrontPage or other MS products, they don't
    >produce correct HTML.*
    >
    >I have never read a HTML book (I have bought them, but I don't learn
    >well from books, I learn from doing) and I think www.w3schools.com is
    >hard to beat for the beginner trying to learn HTML and CSS (and more).


    Hi,

    Dreamweaver has received at the most grudging praise from many using
    this NG but I think if many tried the current version (version 8, the
    last before the Adobe takeover!) they would perhaps regret their faint
    praise. The program has come a long way.

    While not the best program for anybody learning HTML from scratch,
    more so because of the complexity of the program itself, if it is used
    correctly and with a sound background knowledge of HTML it will
    produce excellent sites that are standards compliant.

    It is a bit like owning a chain-saw: you can carve up a beautiful
    forest and send it for chipping, or with sufficient skill you can
    create a sculpture from a block of wood.

    Andrew.

    PS Could Adobe/Macromedia send me money for this plug? Please??
    --

    Andrew
    http://people.aapt.net.au/~adjlstrong/
     
    Andrew, Jul 13, 2006
    #3
  4. In article <>,
    Andrew <sorry.no.email@post_NG.com> wrote:

    > It is a bit like owning a chain-saw: you can carve up a beautiful
    > forest and send it for chipping, or with sufficient skill you can
    > create a sculpture from a block of wood.


    Frankly, I don't know DW. I do have a background in HTML and CSS. Your
    analogy doesn't address a third case. You can kickback and saw yourself
    if you don't know what you're doing or are careless. Otherwise, it's a
    great analogy :)

    leo

    --
    <http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
     
    Leonard Blaisdell, Jul 13, 2006
    #4
  5. lixiaoyao

    Donna Guest

    In my class our text wasn't quite this book, but same publisher and
    similar
    http://www.samspublishing.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=076866635X&rl=1

    My text is called Sams Teach Yourself Web Publishing with HTML and
    XHTML in 21 days.

    this was my college text and I thought this book worked great. Look
    around on the website above for this book. As a companion I used a
    Dummies book, I ove the one I have, don't have it handy though, but
    it's like 7 books combined into 1, it has a book on HTML, one on JAVA,
    one on Dreamweaver, another on multimedia files on your website,
    another on Front Page, antoher one on XML, and I can't remember what
    the last one is. But it's all included in one big book, saves space
    and it great to keep on hand.

    Good luck!
    Donna

    lixiaoyao wrote:
    > hi all
    > I am beginner for html, I want to make a website for myself, could
    > anyone recommend a tool for it and also an introduction book? I
    > appreciate it.
    > Thanks
    > B
     
    Donna, Jul 13, 2006
    #5
  6. lixiaoyao

    Andy Dingley Guest

    lixiaoyao wrote:

    > I am beginner for html, I want to make a website for myself, could
    > anyone recommend a tool for it and also an introduction book? I


    Tools:

    VERY SIMPLE editors. Don't use a WYSIWYG tool like DreamWeaver,
    because it's expensive and you don't need it.

    If you begin with very simple sites and never code anything you don't
    understand, then you'll build simple sites reasonably easily. You'll
    also become far more expert at really understanding HTML (it's not
    hard) and you'll make better sites. Now you won't make a complex site
    overnight, but then you're a beginner and you have to start somewhere.

    HTMLKit and NVU are worth looking at, but I just use very simple text
    editors like jEdit, Eclipse and TextPad. (these tools are free too!)

    Frontpage (anything web-related from M$oft) is just a badly-done tool
    and should be avoided at all costs.


    Books:

    Elizabeth Castro's HTML book.

    Lie & Bos' CSS book.

    The newish "Head First" series of books are very good and there's a
    HTML / XHTML / CSS book in the series. I'd take a good look at that.


    Advice:

    Code in HTML 4.01 Strict

    Ignore XHTML and XML

    Code well-formed and valid code, and use a validator.

    Learn CSS from the very beginning and always write good 2006-style
    code. Avoid 1997-style HTML 3.2 and <table> layout.

    Don't code things you don't understand.

    Don't code non-standard HTML with funny extensions for M$oft.

    Don't confuse MySpace or geocities with web hosting.

    Code for the standard, view and test in a standard compliant browser
    (try FireFox) and worry about IE afterwards

    Don't trust old books or websites. Almost all HTML tutorials are bad,
    obsolete or both.

    Keep reading this newsgroup and c.i.w.a.h because they're the best
    resources around.
     
    Andy Dingley, Jul 13, 2006
    #6
  7. lixiaoyao

    Chaddy2222 Guest

    Andy Dingley <> wrote:
    > lixiaoyao wrote:
    >
    > > I am beginner for html, I want to make a website for myself, could
    > > anyone recommend a tool for it and also an introduction book? I

    >
    > Tools:
    >
    > VERY SIMPLE editors. Don't use a WYSIWYG tool like DreamWeaver,
    > because it's expensive and you don't need it.
    >
    > If you begin with very simple sites and never code anything you don't
    > understand, then you'll build simple sites reasonably easily. You'll
    > also become far more expert at really understanding HTML (it's not
    > hard) and you'll make better sites. Now you won't make a complex site
    > overnight, but then you're a beginner and you have to start somewhere.
    >
    > HTMLKit and NVU are worth looking at, but I just use very simple text
    > editors like jEdit, Eclipse and TextPad. (these tools are free too!)


    I actually use both NVU and HTML-Kit, they are both good, (but for
    there own reasons).
    I also use Notepad for very simple editing.
    By the way, NVU is actually WYSIWYG.

    >
    > Frontpage (anything web-related from M$oft) is just a badly-done tool
    > and should be avoided at all costs.

    Yes, I agree.
    Though IE works ok if you disable items such as ActiveX and JS, but I
    offten disable images as well.

    >
    > Books:
    >
    > Elizabeth Castro's HTML book.
    >
    > Lie & Bos' CSS book.
    >
    > The newish "Head First" series of books are very good and there's a
    > HTML / XHTML / CSS book in the series. I'd take a good look at that.
    >
    >
    > Advice:
    >
    > Code in HTML 4.01 Strict
    >
    > Ignore XHTML and XML
    >
    > Code well-formed and valid code, and use a validator.

    That should be the W3C validator by the way, http://validator.w3.org
    Don't bother with any other validator, they are not actually any good
    and will cost you money.

    >
    > Learn CSS from the very beginning and always write good 2006-style
    > code. Avoid 1997-style HTML 3.2 and <table> layout.
    >
    > Don't code things you don't understand.


    Interesting advice, but sounds good though.

    >
    > Don't code non-standard HTML with funny extensions for M$oft.


    I agree.

    > Don't confuse MySpace or geocities with web hosting.


    Good advice.

    > Code for the standard, view and test in a standard compliant browser
    > (try FireFox) and worry about IE afterwards



    Also, don't code stuff in Quirks mode.

    >
    > Don't trust old books or websites. Almost all HTML tutorials are bad,
    > obsolete or both.

    Here is a case in point.
    http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.htmlgoodies.com/&amp;ss=1&amp;outline=1

    I found it very amuseing that a site teaching people about HTML could
    have 128 errors, in it's HTML, (and that was only the index page).

    > Keep reading this newsgroup and c.i.w.a.h because they're the best
    > resources around.

    Yes, I couldn't agree more.
    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc
     
    Chaddy2222, Jul 13, 2006
    #7
  8. In article <>,
    "Chaddy2222" <> wrote:
    > Andy Dingley <> wrote:
    > > Code well-formed and valid code, and use a validator.

    > That should be the W3C validator by the way, http://validator.w3.org
    > Don't bother with any other validator, they are not actually any good
    > and will cost you money.


    I beg to differ. =) The W3C's validator is definitely the gold standard,
    but there are a number of other validators available that use the same
    technology behind the scenes and are not to be dismissed. They might
    even offer features that the W3C Validator doesn't. For instance, the
    WDG validator (http://htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/index.html.en) gives
    extra warnings that the W3C Validator doesn't and can validate up to 100
    pages at once, and mine (see my sig) can validate an entire site, does
    link checking along the way and has some other nice features too. This
    doesn't make one better than the other; they just serve different needs.

    You're right that there are some products of dubious merit that call
    themselves validators, but there's no need to paint with such a broad
    brush.

    Other than this quibble, I agree with all of the other excellent advice
    posted so far in this thread.

    Cheers

    --
    Philip
    http://NikitaTheSpider.com/
    Whole-site HTML validation, link checking and more
     
    Nikita the Spider, Jul 13, 2006
    #8
  9. lixiaoyao

    Joe Guest

    In article <>,
    says...

    >

    <snip>
    >
    > Advice:
    >
    > Code in HTML 4.01 Strict

    .... with a proper DTD/doctype
    >
    > Ignore XHTML and XML
    >
    > Code well-formed and valid code, and use a validator.

    either an online one, or Liam Quinns.
    >
    > Learn CSS from the very beginning and always write good 2006-style
    > code. Avoid 1997-style HTML 3.2 and <table> layout.
    >
    > Don't code things you don't understand.

    I'd say halleluhyah - but I can't spell it. WRite it *large*
    >
    > Don't code non-standard HTML with funny extensions for M$oft.
    >
    > Don't confuse MySpace or geocities with web hosting.
    >
    > Code for the standard, view and test in a standard compliant browser
    > (try FireFox) and worry about IE afterwards

    First Opera, then Moz/FF, then IE
    >
    > Don't trust old books or websites. Almost all HTML tutorials are bad,
    > obsolete or both.

    Yes!!!
    >
    > Keep reading this newsgroup and c.i.w.a.h because they're the best
    > resources around.
    >


    Excellent advise.
     
    Joe, Jul 14, 2006
    #9
  10. Joe wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >


    >> Don't code things you don't understand.

    > I'd say halleluhyah - but I can't spell it. WRite it *large*


    hallelujah

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jul 14, 2006
    #10
  11. lixiaoyao

    freemont Guest

    On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:10:03 -0700, Andy Dingley <>
    wrote:

    > Code in HTML 4.01 Strict
    >
    > Ignore XHTML and XML


    Why this bit?

    --
    "Because all you of Earth are idiots!"
    ¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> freemont© <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯
     
    freemont, Jul 14, 2006
    #11
  12. freemont wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:10:03 -0700, Andy Dingley <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Code in HTML 4.01 Strict
    >>
    >> Ignore XHTML and XML

    >
    > Why this bit?
    >



    Search the group your will find it discussed to death. Not need to
    reiterate here.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Jul 14, 2006
    #12
  13. lixiaoyao

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    Nik Coughlin, Jul 14, 2006
    #13
  14. lixiaoyao

    Chaddy2222 Guest

    Nikita the Spider wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > "Chaddy2222" <> wrote:
    > > Andy Dingley <> wrote:
    > > > Code well-formed and valid code, and use a validator.

    > > That should be the W3C validator by the way, http://validator.w3.org
    > > Don't bother with any other validator, they are not actually any good
    > > and will cost you money.

    >
    > I beg to differ. =) The W3C's validator is definitely the gold standard,
    > but there are a number of other validators available that use the same
    > technology behind the scenes and are not to be dismissed. They might
    > even offer features that the W3C Validator doesn't. For instance, the
    > WDG validator (http://htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/index.html.en) gives
    > extra warnings that the W3C Validator doesn't and can validate up to 100
    > pages at once, and mine (see my sig) can validate an entire site, does
    > link checking along the way and has some other nice features too. This
    > doesn't make one better than the other; they just serve different needs.
    >
    > You're right that there are some products of dubious merit that call
    > themselves validators, but there's no need to paint with such a broad
    > brush.


    Ok, I see what you mean, perhaps I should have said use a proper HTML
    validator, such as the one from the W3C.
    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc/about-us.html
     
    Chaddy2222, Jul 14, 2006
    #14
  15. lixiaoyao

    Andy Dingley Guest

    freemont wrote:
    > On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:10:03 -0700, Andy Dingley <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Code in HTML 4.01 Strict
    > >
    > > Ignore XHTML and XML

    >
    > Why this bit?


    No benefits at all unless you're doing something really quite advanced.

    Not possible to deploy it widely as XML.

    Doing it competently without XML (appendix C) is hard and complex.

    It's too fashionable to advocate XHTML blindly (CIW are doing it) and
    the OP is a beginner who might otherwise be misled.
     
    Andy Dingley, Jul 14, 2006
    #15
  16. lixiaoyao

    freemont Guest

    On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:24:06 -0700, Andy Dingley wrote:

    >
    > freemont wrote:
    >> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:10:03 -0700, Andy Dingley
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > Code in HTML 4.01 Strict
    >> >
    >> > Ignore XHTML and XML

    >>
    >> Why this bit?

    >
    > No benefits at all unless you're doing something really quite advanced.
    >
    > Not possible to deploy it widely as XML.
    >
    > Doing it competently without XML (appendix C) is hard and complex.
    >
    > It's too fashionable to advocate XHTML blindly (CIW are doing it) and the
    > OP is a beginner who might otherwise be misled.


    Thanks you two, I had no idea. Very interesting stuff. From now on 4.01
    Strict it is.

    --
    "Because all you of Earth are idiots!"
    ¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> freemont© <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯
     
    freemont, Jul 14, 2006
    #16
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