Creating a popup window

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Pete, May 21, 2005.

  1. Pete

    Pete Guest

    Hi, I have searched Google & the newsgroups for how to create a popup window
    but can't find exactly what I want. What I want is to create a new popup
    window (if this is the correct term) when someone clicks on a hyperlink in
    my webpage *****without using Javascript or VBScript etc*****


    What I have now is

    <html><body>this is some text in my html code that I use and when someone
    clicks on <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk>BBC</a> the browser navigates to
    the BBC website. What I would like it to do is popup a new browser window
    with BBC website but leave my page underneath and still
    visible.</body></html>

    Can this be done?

    Thank you
    Peter
     
    Pete, May 21, 2005
    #1
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  2. Pete

    Els Guest

    Pete wrote:

    > Hi, I have searched Google & the newsgroups for how to create a popup window
    > but can't find exactly what I want. What I want is to create a new popup
    > window (if this is the correct term) when someone clicks on a hyperlink in
    > my webpage *****without using Javascript or VBScript etc*****
    >
    >
    > What I have now is
    >
    > <html><body>this is some text in my html code that I use and when someone
    > clicks on <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk>BBC</a> the browser navigates to
    > the BBC website. What I would like it to do is popup a new browser window
    > with BBC website but leave my page underneath and still
    > visible.</body></html>
    >
    > Can this be done?


    You can "pop up" a new window, yes (if the user hasn't changed the
    settings on his/her browser to avoid it).
    But you can't set the size of that window, it will be the size the
    user has set as default window size. That means that for people who
    surf full screen, the BBC site will also be full screen, and thus
    cover your site. Then, if the user wants to go back to your site,
    they'll press the back-button on their keyboard, or click the
    back-button of their browser, but it won't work, cause your site is in
    another window, invisible to them.

    Long story short: don't open up new windows.

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
     
    Els, May 21, 2005
    #2
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  3. Pete

    Pete Guest

    >
    > Long story short: don't open up new windows.
    >


    Thank you Els. This type of good practice guidance backed up by an
    explanation is useful. I will not pursue this further on my website.
    Pete


    "Els" <> wrote in message
    news:177yo15izfo0a$...
    > Pete wrote:
    >
    >> Hi, I have searched Google & the newsgroups for how to create a popup
    >> window
    >> but can't find exactly what I want. What I want is to create a new popup
    >> window (if this is the correct term) when someone clicks on a hyperlink
    >> in
    >> my webpage *****without using Javascript or VBScript etc*****
    >>
    >>
    >> What I have now is
    >>
    >> <html><body>this is some text in my html code that I use and when someone
    >> clicks on <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk>BBC</a> the browser navigates to
    >> the BBC website. What I would like it to do is popup a new browser window
    >> with BBC website but leave my page underneath and still
    >> visible.</body></html>
    >>
    >> Can this be done?

    >
    > You can "pop up" a new window, yes (if the user hasn't changed the
    > settings on his/her browser to avoid it).
    > But you can't set the size of that window, it will be the size the
    > user has set as default window size. That means that for people who
    > surf full screen, the BBC site will also be full screen, and thus
    > cover your site. Then, if the user wants to go back to your site,
    > they'll press the back-button on their keyboard, or click the
    > back-button of their browser, but it won't work, cause your site is in
    > another window, invisible to them.
    >
    > Long story short: don't open up new windows.
    >
    > --
    > Els http://locusmeus.com/
    > Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    > - Renato Russo -
     
    Pete, May 21, 2005
    #3
  4. Els wrote:
    > But you can't set the size of that window, it will be the size the
    > user has set as default window size. That means that for people who
    > surf full screen, the BBC site will also be full screen, and thus
    > cover your site. Then, if the user wants to go back to your site,
    > they'll press the back-button on their keyboard, or click the
    > back-button of their browser, but it won't work, cause your site is in
    > another window, invisible to them.


    And after seeing the back button doesn't work, no one would ever think
    of closing the window. Because of course, this is the first time this
    has ever happened to them while surfing...

    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, May 21, 2005
    #4
  5. Pete

    Els Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:

    > Els wrote:
    >> But you can't set the size of that window, it will be the size the
    >> user has set as default window size. That means that for people who
    >> surf full screen, the BBC site will also be full screen, and thus
    >> cover your site. Then, if the user wants to go back to your site,
    >> they'll press the back-button on their keyboard, or click the
    >> back-button of their browser, but it won't work, cause your site is in
    >> another window, invisible to them.

    >
    > And after seeing the back button doesn't work, no one would ever think
    > of closing the window. Because of course, this is the first time this
    > has ever happened to them while surfing...


    Of course they can close the window. It's an annoyance though.
    Especially if from the BBC site they navigate elsewhere, and whereever
    they go, new windows are openened. After an hour or two of surfing,
    there are 20 windows to be closed. Not funny.

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
     
    Els, May 21, 2005
    #5
  6. Els wrote:
    >>And after seeing the back button doesn't work, no one would ever think
    >>of closing the window. Because of course, this is the first time this
    >>has ever happened to them while surfing...

    > Of course they can close the window. It's an annoyance though.
    > Especially if from the BBC site they navigate elsewhere, and whereever
    > they go, new windows are openened. After an hour or two of surfing,
    > there are 20 windows to be closed. Not funny.


    Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree with you. _Unwanted_ popups (ones
    that suddenly appear without being requested) can be annoying, and that
    is why someone should use never use them on their site. On the other
    hand, linked popups (to me) are much less annoying, and sometimes I
    actually prefer them (say the little calendar popup when choosing the
    date range at a hotel site, or airline).

    Just my opinion

    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, May 21, 2005
    #6
  7. Pete

    jake Guest

    In message <>, Pete <>
    writes
    >Hi, I have searched Google & the newsgroups for how to create a popup window
    >but can't find exactly what I want. What I want is to create a new popup
    >window (if this is the correct term) when someone clicks on a hyperlink in
    >my webpage *****without using Javascript or VBScript etc*****
    >
    >
    >What I have now is
    >
    ><html><body>this is some text in my html code that I use and when someone
    >clicks on <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk>BBC</a> the browser navigates to
    >the BBC website. What I would like it to do is popup a new browser window
    >with BBC website but leave my page underneath and still
    >visible.</body></html>
    >
    >Can this be done?
    >
    >Thank you
    >Peter
    >
    >

    Yes/No (although a better term might be 'spawn a new window').

    You'll need to use Javascript though, if you want the spawned window to
    differ in size from the user's default, otherwise the new window will
    simply sit on top of the original.

    Don't forget to put a warning -- something like 'site opens in a new
    window' at a suitable place on the page. This will help:
    (a) Users of screen-readers/talking-browsers who might miss the audio
    queue to tell them a new browser window is opening, and
    (b) People who have been using for the Web for less than 5 minutes and
    don't realise that such a thing is possible ;-)

    regards.

    --
    Jake
     
    jake, May 21, 2005
    #7
  8. Pete

    Els Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:

    > Els wrote:
    >>>And after seeing the back button doesn't work, no one would ever think
    >>>of closing the window. Because of course, this is the first time this
    >>>has ever happened to them while surfing...

    >> Of course they can close the window. It's an annoyance though.
    >> Especially if from the BBC site they navigate elsewhere, and whereever
    >> they go, new windows are openened. After an hour or two of surfing,
    >> there are 20 windows to be closed. Not funny.

    >
    > Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree with you. _Unwanted_ popups (ones
    > that suddenly appear without being requested) can be annoying, and that
    > is why someone should use never use them on their site. On the other
    > hand, linked popups (to me) are much less annoying, and sometimes I
    > actually prefer them (say the little calendar popup when choosing the
    > date range at a hotel site, or airline).
    >
    > Just my opinion


    :)

    Things like little calender popups are okay imo, but they're
    JavaScript dependent. And I too sometimes prefer to have a link open
    in a new window, or in a new tab. That's when I right click the link
    and choose an option. I hate it when they open new windows without
    asking me, while I have a tabbed browser so that I don't need so many
    windows open!

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
     
    Els, May 21, 2005
    #8
  9. New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popupwindow)

    Els wrote:

    [author opening new windows]

    > Then, if the user wants to go back to your site,
    > they'll press the back-button on their keyboard, or click the
    > back-button of their browser, but it won't work, cause your site is in
    > another window, invisible to them.


    I'm not advocating page authors opening new windows in the slightest,
    but as a topic of discussion:

    Back in about 1996 I used a browser which, when the user chose to open a
    link in a new window, caused the new window to inherit the browser
    history from the old window. I found this a useful feature because you
    could then, if you chose, navigate backwards in the new window while
    continuing elsewhere in the original window.

    I'm not aware of this feature being implemented in any of the more
    common recent browsers. Does anyone here know better, or consider that
    it would be valuable?

    Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have windows
    opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it might leave
    them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a browsing session.
    However, I think that it could be beneficial for "power-users."

    Andrew
     
    Andrew Donaldson, May 21, 2005
    #9
  10. Pete wrote:

    >>Long story short: don't open up new windows.

    >
    > Thank you Els. This type of good practice guidance backed up by an
    > explanation is useful. I will not pursue this further on my website.


    A lot of the people who can really help out in this group like that kind
    of attitude. You'll be able to able to learn a lot here - I did, almost
    entirely by lurking, in fact.

    (If you snip the bits of the post you're not replying to you'll become
    the teachers' pet hereabouts!)

    Andrew
     
    Andrew Donaldson, May 21, 2005
    #10
  11. Pete

    Els Guest

    Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popup window)

    Andrew Donaldson wrote:

    [new window inheriting history from old window - back in 1996]

    > Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have windows
    > opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it might leave
    > them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a browsing session.
    > However, I think that it could be beneficial for "power-users."


    I have never heard of it (I got on the web first time in 2002), but
    maybe they got rid of it cause it could be a security risk?
    I don't know much about cookies and sessions and anything related, but
    istm that if in a new window you go back to where you were in the old
    window, and log in somewhere, it could interfere with what you were
    doing in the old window. I'm thinking filling out forms and credit
    card stuff. No idea really :)

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
     
    Els, May 21, 2005
    #11
  12. Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popupwindow)

    Andrew Donaldson wrote:

    > Back in about 1996 I used a browser which, when the user chose to open a
    > link in a new window, caused the new window to inherit the browser
    > history from the old window...
    > Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have windows
    > opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it might leave
    > them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a browsing session.
    > However, I think that it could be beneficial for "power-users."


    I think that would be even more confusing. With the history not
    working, you know you have to close the window to return. If the
    history works, then you would be more likely have more orphaned windows
    because there is no need to close the one you are in.
    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, May 21, 2005
    #12
  13. Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popupwindow)

    Els wrote:

    > [new window inheriting history from old window - back in 1996]
    >
    > I have never heard of it (I got on the web first time in 2002)


    Wow - you got very good very quickly!

    > but maybe they got rid of it cause it could be a security risk?


    It wasn't consciously got rid of, development of it all but ceased in
    about 1998 when the company (Acorn) stopped doing hardware and desktop
    software and morphed into several other companies. The browser was
    called, believe it or not, Browse - Acorn had a thing about minimalist,
    descriptive names. I recall Browse was claimed to have the HTML 4
    compliance and PNG support of any browser at the time, but don't now if
    this was true.

    > I don't know much about cookies and sessions and anything related, but
    > istm that if in a new window you go back to where you were in the old
    > window, and log in somewhere, it could interfere with what you were
    > doing in the old window. I'm thinking filling out forms and credit
    > card stuff. No idea really :)


    Me neither :) That's a good point that hadn't occurred to me, but this
    was before online transactions were commonplace anyway so it was maybe
    not an issue then. I'd hope that such sessions were more robust than
    that now anyway, since the same interference could be caused just by
    opening a new window part way through a session and proceeding then
    returning to the session in the original window, I think.

    Andrew
     
    Andrew Donaldson, May 21, 2005
    #13
  14. Pete

    Els Guest

    Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popup window)

    Andrew Donaldson wrote:

    > Els wrote:
    >
    >> [new window inheriting history from old window - back in 1996]
    >>
    >> I have never heard of it (I got on the web first time in 2002)

    >
    > Wow - you got very good very quickly!


    Thanks <g>

    >> but maybe they got rid of it cause it could be a security risk?

    >
    > It wasn't consciously got rid of, development of it all but ceased in
    > about 1998 when the company (Acorn) stopped doing hardware and desktop
    > software and morphed into several other companies. The browser was
    > called, believe it or not, Browse - Acorn had a thing about minimalist,
    > descriptive names. I recall Browse was claimed to have the HTML 4
    > compliance and PNG support of any browser at the time, but don't now if
    > this was true.


    Acorn - a name I hear mentioned by computer dinosaurs every now and
    then :)

    >> I don't know much about cookies and sessions and anything related, but
    >> istm that if in a new window you go back to where you were in the old
    >> window, and log in somewhere, it could interfere with what you were
    >> doing in the old window. I'm thinking filling out forms and credit
    >> card stuff. No idea really :)

    >
    > Me neither :) That's a good point that hadn't occurred to me, but this
    > was before online transactions were commonplace anyway so it was maybe
    > not an issue then. I'd hope that such sessions were more robust than
    > that now anyway, since the same interference could be caused just by
    > opening a new window part way through a session and proceeding then
    > returning to the session in the original window, I think.


    Well, recently I noticed some (to me odd) behaviour on a UK train
    times site - I wanted to compare two different routes, and I decided
    to look up one in one tab, and already the second in another tab.
    As soon as I started the second one, the first one got aborted.

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
     
    Els, May 21, 2005
    #14
  15. Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popupwindow)

    Els wrote:

    > Acorn - a name I hear mentioned by computer dinosaurs every now and
    > then :)


    Quiet - you'll upset the 10 year old fossil in the corner that is my
    most recent Acorn...

    [separate browser windows handling the same session]

    > Well, recently I noticed some (to me odd) behaviour on a UK train
    > times site - I wanted to compare two different routes, and I decided
    > to look up one in one tab, and already the second in another tab.
    > As soon as I started the second one, the first one got aborted.


    That particular problem doesn't sound like a browser/session issue:
    pretty much everything to do with UK trains works like that ;-)

    Andrew
     
    Andrew Donaldson, May 21, 2005
    #15
  16. Pete

    Els Guest

    Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popup window)

    Andrew Donaldson wrote:

    >> Well, recently I noticed some (to me odd) behaviour on a UK train
    >> times site - I wanted to compare two different routes, and I decided
    >> to look up one in one tab, and already the second in another tab.
    >> As soon as I started the second one, the first one got aborted.

    >
    > That particular problem doesn't sound like a browser/session issue:
    > pretty much everything to do with UK trains works like that ;-)


    <g>

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Now playing: Iggy & Kate - Candy
     
    Els, May 21, 2005
    #16
  17. Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popupwindow)

    Travis Newbury wrote:

    > Andrew Donaldson wrote:


    [new window inherits browser history from old window]

    >> Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have
    >> windows opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it
    >> might leave them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a
    >> browsing session.

    >
    > I think that would be even more confusing. With the history not
    > working, you know you have to close the window to return.


    You or I do maybe, but there appear to be many people who don't realise
    this and could then happily carry on unaware that anything has happened.
    This would then kind of raise the question "why bother opening a new
    window?"

    > If the history works, then you would be more likely have more
    > orphaned windows because there is no need to close the one you are
    > in.


    Didn't I say that? However, unless users browse long enough to exhaust
    the resources of their computer, they exit the browser or shut down, and
    remain unaware of the orphans. Or the user is competent, browsing in
    multiple tabs/windows anyway, and can navigate more conveniently than
    before in some situations.

    I'd certainly only suggest that the feature could/should be introduced
    to cater for the latter case, and not solely to help users avoid
    problems caused by authors foisting new windows on them.

    Andrew
     
    Andrew Donaldson, May 21, 2005
    #17
  18. Pete

    Els Guest

    Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popup window)

    Andrew Donaldson wrote:

    > [new window inherits browser history from old window]
    >
    >> I think that would be even more confusing. With the history not
    >> working, you know you have to close the window to return.

    >
    > You or I do maybe, but there appear to be many people who don't realise
    > this and could then happily carry on unaware that anything has happened.
    > This would then kind of raise the question "why bother opening a new
    > window?"


    Good Q :)

    > However, unless users browse long enough to exhaust
    > the resources of their computer, they exit the browser or shut down, and
    > remain unaware of the orphans.


    No, they will shut down their browser, and all of a sudden see another
    site that they have come across before. They may think "wtf" or merely
    "oh, forgot that one", and click the red cross on that one. Then
    they'll see another window, and click the red cross, and then they
    see...
    This will go on for as many windows as they had opened without
    realising it.

    AFAIK no one shuts down the entire computer without first shutting
    down all the browser windows. I sometimes do, but almost always I have
    too many applications open, and WinXP just gives up half way, and I
    have to repeat the action.

    > Or the user is competent, browsing in
    > multiple tabs/windows anyway, and can navigate more conveniently than
    > before in some situations.


    For such users it could be an option set in about:config.
    I see little use for it myself though.

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Now playing: Stealers Wheel - Stuck In The Middle
     
    Els, May 21, 2005
    #18
  19. Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popupwindow)

    Andrew Donaldson wrote:
    >> If the history works, then you would be more likely have more
    >> orphaned windows because there is no need to close the one you are
    >> in.

    > Didn't I say that?


    Yes, I was agreeing with you and re-enforcing your point.


    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, May 21, 2005
    #19
  20. Re: New window inheriting browser history? (Was Re: Creating a popupwindow)

    Els wrote:

    [multiple browser windows]

    > No, they will shut down their browser, and all of a sudden see another
    > site that they have come across before. They may think "wtf" or merely
    > "oh, forgot that one", and click the red cross on that one. Then
    > they'll see another window, and click the red cross, and then they
    > see...


    You're right. For some reason (maybe that I don't use it for casual
    browsing any more) I was thinking that IE could exit and shut all its
    windows in one operation.

    > For such users it could be an option set in about:config.
    > I see little use for it myself though.


    After a bit of thought, neither do I!

    Andrew
     
    Andrew Donaldson, May 21, 2005
    #20
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