Creating and maintaining html-pages with different languages?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Hans Meier, Dec 14, 2004.

  1. Hans Meier

    Hans Meier Guest

    Hello,

    I'm using NVU (OS: Windows XP) to create some tutotrials in html.
    The tutorials are only used local on the users PCs.
    Now there is the need to do this in German and in English.

    But how I can make this easier? Now I have to change
    any page twice, once in German, once in english.

    Is threre any (database-)Editor available, which seperates
    the layout editing an the text editing?

    What I want to do: I have one layout of a html page.
    Also I have a database which stores the english and
    german text for this html page.

    Doing just one click the tool creates two pages, one with
    english text, one with german text.

    I'm looking for a tiny tool, I don't want to use
    server bases systems.

    Many thanks for any hint!

    Regards

    Hans
     
    Hans Meier, Dec 14, 2004
    #1
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  2. Hans Meier

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Hans Meier wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm using NVU (OS: Windows XP) to create some tutotrials in html.
    > The tutorials are only used local on the users PCs.
    > Now there is the need to do this in German and in English.
    >
    > But how I can make this easier? Now I have to change
    > any page twice, once in German, once in english.
    >
    > Is threre any (database-)Editor available, which seperates
    > the layout editing an the text editing?
    >
    > What I want to do: I have one layout of a html page.
    > Also I have a database which stores the english and
    > german text for this html page.
    >
    > Doing just one click the tool creates two pages, one with
    > english text, one with german text.
    >
    > I'm looking for a tiny tool, I don't want to use
    > server bases systems.
    >
    > Many thanks for any hint!
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Hans


    That's NOT the way to do it really... using server side 'systems' you
    could have as many languages as you wanted... I dotn know of any tools
    that would really let you do this easily. I think you'll just have to do
    it by hand.

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
     
    SpaceGirl, Dec 14, 2004
    #2
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  3. (Hans Meier) wrote:

    > Now there is the need to do this in German and in English.
    >
    > But how I can make this easier? Now I have to change
    > any page twice, once in German, once in english.


    Indeed. That's the dominant cost of multilingual authoring, unless the
    pages are created to be abandoned soon.

    > Is threre any (database-)Editor available, which seperates
    > the layout editing an[d] the text editing?


    Use CSS, Luke. Separate content from presentation, and your HTML
    document will be nice and clean. The CSS code is normally independent
    of the natural language used, but see some caveats:
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www/multicss.html

    In clean HTML, you say nothing about any layout. That's the ideal, and
    things won't go very wrong if you use a casual presentational attribute
    or so. What matters is that you don't have a spaghetti of nested tables
    and font tags and whatever

    > What I want to do: I have one layout of a html page.
    > Also I have a database which stores the english and
    > german text for this html page.


    I'm afraid you don't know what you are asking for. Any database system
    is more complex than the do-it-by-hand system that you have now, which
    is more complex than the simple approach I suggested. You _still_ have
    to organize the translation and the updates.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Dec 14, 2004
    #3
  4. Hans Meier

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 14 Dec 2004 02:16:48 -0800, (Hans Meier) wrote:

    >What I want to do: I have one layout of a html page.
    >Also I have a database which stores the english and
    >german text for this html page.


    This is fairly run-of-the-mill stuff. However the "database approach"
    has additional costs over static pages. It's a question of how many
    pages you have, as to which is best for you.

    I do this by using a SQL database, storing the content as XML
    fragments, then using XSLT to turn these fragments into pages.

    The "page" contains fragments in either XHTML or DocBook - both XML
    formats. The multi-language content is embedded _within_ the page,
    i.e. there are sections within the XML fragment that are labelled as
    either English or German, and these are selected by the XSLT. If
    there's no content of the "right" language, then it's easy to default
    to another one, rather than leaving the page empty, This also reduces
    the amount of duplication needed to to embed untranslatable resources
    like images - they need only appear once and they have their
    annotations tagged for language and duplicated.

    Only if I had a major task of workflow management (i.e. organising a
    team of translators) would I start to store the multi-language
    versions as separate database entities.

    CSS is useful, but it will _not_ solve your page generation problems.
    You have a large site, so you have a problem in updating navigation
    trees. You also have a navigation tree that is (presumably) static
    across languages, yet is labelled with varying languages. This means
    that you need to generate HTML navigation (<a> elements) with varying
    _content_, and that's more than CSS can do.

    You also have a problem of authoring, in that there will be many
    authors of content who are not HTML experts, nor should they be. A
    database-driven approach is a route towards solving this.

    I would probably go with the database, XML, XSLT solution for anything
    more than a handful of pages. You might like to look at existing
    products like MySource Matrix, rather than building your own.
    --
    Smert' spamionam
     
    Andy Dingley, Dec 15, 2004
    #4
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