Cross browser / platform problems with CSS

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Mark Findlay, Jul 13, 2004.

  1. Mark Findlay

    Mark Findlay Guest

    I am running into problems trying to get a simple searchbox to display
    correctly across various browsers and platforms.

    Everything is fine in IE 6.0 on PC (can't we all just use IE :) but when
    viewed on other browsers and platforms is when the problems begin.

    Here is a simple page I created to illustrate the problem. I also included
    screenshots to show how each other browser and platform mangles the original
    intent.
    http://www.speakeasy.org/~mfindlay/searchbox.htm. Everything is contained in
    the htm page so you can view source on it to see the style definitions I am
    using.

    If anyone can offer any advice on the 2 main issues here:

    1) The input box appears even though I have defined a style for it that
    should make it invisible
    2) On Mac Safari, the searchbox is separated from the arrow image.

    I would greatly appreciate it.
    Mark Findlay, Jul 13, 2004
    #1
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  2. Mark Findlay

    rf Guest

    "Mark Findlay" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I am running into problems trying to get a simple searchbox to display
    > correctly across various browsers and platforms.


    Damn. I just typed out a full and detailed reply to you and then found all
    the crossposted groups, AFTER I had sent the post.

    Why do you crosspost to so many disparate groups? And such obscure ones at
    at that!

    Well I have just deleted all the groups that are not on my server. I also
    deleted my reply. Not that you would have probably found it anyway.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Jul 13, 2004
    #2
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  3. Mark Findlay

    Mark Findlay Guest

    I'm not quite following you on this one.

    People post to multiple groups all the time; do you go around to each
    message and post phony replies to anyone who posts to multiple groups? You
    must be very busy indeed.

    Cheers back

    "rf" <rf@.invalid> wrote in message
    news:cqIIc.91650$...
    >
    > "Mark Findlay" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > I am running into problems trying to get a simple searchbox to display
    > > correctly across various browsers and platforms.

    >
    > Damn. I just typed out a full and detailed reply to you and then found all
    > the crossposted groups, AFTER I had sent the post.
    >
    > Why do you crosspost to so many disparate groups? And such obscure ones at
    > at that!
    >
    > Well I have just deleted all the groups that are not on my server. I also
    > deleted my reply. Not that you would have probably found it anyway.
    >
    > --
    > Cheers
    > Richard.
    >
    >
    Mark Findlay, Jul 13, 2004
    #3
  4. Mark Findlay

    Jeff Thies Guest

    Mark Findlay wrote:
    > I'm not quite following you on this one.
    >
    > People post to multiple groups all the time;


    Most don't. Most post to the most appropriate group. Ocasionally it is
    appropriate to post to more than one group. Have you read this group?

    Four diverse groups is a bit much. I would just crank it down a bit
    before you get a warning on top posting also.

    Jeff

    > do you go around to each
    > message and post phony replies to anyone who posts to multiple groups? You
    > must be very busy indeed.
    >
    > Cheers back
    >
    > "rf" <rf@.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:cqIIc.91650$...
    >
    >>"Mark Findlay" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>
    >>>I am running into problems trying to get a simple searchbox to display
    >>>correctly across various browsers and platforms.

    >>
    >>Damn. I just typed out a full and detailed reply to you and then found all
    >>the crossposted groups, AFTER I had sent the post.
    >>
    >>Why do you crosspost to so many disparate groups? And such obscure ones at
    >>at that!
    >>
    >>Well I have just deleted all the groups that are not on my server. I also
    >>deleted my reply. Not that you would have probably found it anyway.
    >>
    >>--
    >>Cheers
    >>Richard.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    Jeff Thies, Jul 13, 2004
    #4
  5. Mark Findlay

    rf Guest

    "Mark Findlay" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    .... makes no sense upside down.

    > I'm not quite following you on this one.


    > People post to multiple groups all the time;


    Just because "everyone" does it does not make it good. Do you chase after
    lemmings?

    > do you go around to each
    > message and post phony replies to anyone who posts to multiple groups? You
    > must be very busy indeed.


    No, I do not. I saw a post that I could answer and I did. I did not, at the
    time, see the crosspost in the newsgroups bar.

    My problem is that I had just spend 5 of my minutes (my minutes, if I am
    busy or not) giving you a detailed reply and, on pressing send, was
    confronted with crossposted groups that are not on my server. I can not send
    the post because my server bounces the post.

    So, I have to cut those groups out of my post. Since I don't know which of
    those groups you are posting from I can only assume that you are posting
    from on of the two (out of three) that I had to cut. (the odds are good, and
    I have not seen your handle in alt.html before). If you lurk in one of
    those two groups then why should I post to you via alt.html, except on the
    offchance you find the post and recognise my annoyance?

    Since you found my post you are either posting from alt.html or you are
    auditing all three groups.

    In any case, I don't care, you pissed me off so I chose to snip my original
    reply, perhaps to your detriment. Once again, I don't care. You have annoyed
    me once, I will keep an eye on you now. If you include crossposts to
    proprietory newsgroups that have little or nothing to do with alt.html then
    I will cheerfully ignore you. BTW I don't see many replies coming back from
    those other groups :)

    When posting pick one group and stick with it.

    BTW do not top post, because it...

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Jul 13, 2004
    #5
  6. Mark Findlay

    rf Guest

    "Jeff Thies" wrote
    > Mark Findlay wrote:


    > > People post to multiple groups all the time;


    > Four diverse groups is a bit much. I would just crank it down a bit
    > before you get a warning on top posting also.


    Too late :)

    <grin style="tongue-position: cheek;">
    Oh, BTW it is also permissible to snip away all the stuff at the bottom that
    doesn't pertain to your post. You know, sort of keeps the newsgroup neat and
    tidy. Makes it easier to find the bits *you* wrote. Less chaff to search
    through.
    </grin>

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Jul 13, 2004
    #6
  7. Mark Findlay

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 05:25:37 GMT, Jeff Thies <>
    declared in alt.html:

    > Ocasionally it is appropriate to post to more than one group.


    It is also customary when crossposting to set followups.

    > Four diverse groups is a bit much.


    Indeed. I have my newsreader set to ignore anything crossposted to more
    than 3 groups.

    > I would just crank it down a bit
    > before you get a warning on top posting also.


    Trimming superfluous quoting is also desirable. ;-)

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
    Mark Parnell, Jul 13, 2004
    #7
  8. Mark Findlay

    lime Guest

    > <grin style="tongue-position: cheek;">

    This has to be the best thing I've seen on usenet ever. Very good, very good
    indeed...
    lime, Jul 13, 2004
    #8
  9. Mark Findlay

    rf Guest

    lime wrote

    > > <grin style="tongue-position: cheek;">


    > This has to be the best thing I've seen on usenet ever. Very good, very

    good
    > indeed...


    Thankyou sir and/or madam :)

    It's a rarely used block level emoticon.

    http://groups.google.com.au/groups?q=grin tongue-position cheek
    Looks like I invented it in early 2002.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Jul 13, 2004
    #9
  10. Mark Findlay

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Mark Findlay wrote:

    > I am running into problems trying to get a simple searchbox to display
    > correctly across various browsers and platforms.
    >
    > http://www.speakeasy.org/~mfindlay/searchbox.htm


    Many browsers choose to disallow or limit the styling of form elements,
    simply because allowing authors too much control over them tends to result
    in unusable pages.

    Say, for example, that I'm a Windows user with limited eyesight. I have
    gone into Control Panel, double clicked on "Display", gone to the
    "Appearance" tab (this is all from memory, so is probably the wrong way --
    I don't use Windows on a regular basis) and chosen a high-contrast, large
    print white-on-black colour scheme.

    Now my form controls will tend to have a black background with pretty
    big white text.
    In your style sheet you have put:

    input {
    font-size: 11px;
    color: #330000;
    }

    Not only will the font size be way too small for me to see what I'm
    typing, but also I'll be stuck with really-dark-red text on a black
    background which (even at a sane font size) will be illegible.

    For that reason, many browsers tend to disallow form styling.

    [x-posted, f'ups to alt.html]

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
    Toby Inkster, Jul 13, 2004
    #10
  11. Mark Findlay

    rf Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > Mark Findlay wrote:
    >
    > > I am running into problems trying to get a simple searchbox to display
    > > correctly across various browsers and platforms.

    >
    > Many browsers choose to disallow or limit the styling of form elements,
    > simply because allowing authors too much control over them tends to result
    > in unusable pages.


    Hmmm. Not entirely sure about these altruistic reasons :)

    The real reason IMHO is that some browsers, especially older ones, use the
    standard Windows Common Controls for form elements, that is: an edit control
    for an input type="text" element, a dropdown combo box for a select element
    and so on. I've even seen a button control used for an input type="button"
    element.

    <aside> The edit control above is exactly the same edit control that is
    wrapped up in a fancy GUI and called "Notepad", just like Wordpad actually
    is, under the hood, a standard Rich Text control </aside>

    This can be verified by cranking up Spy and searching for windows. Each
    input element is a separate Windows window. This also explains why they
    always live in front of the canvas, regardless of z-order. They really are a
    different window, just like a frame or a dialog/alert box.

    Windows Common Controls, being common, have little that can be styled. That
    is why they are common, so all programs that use them "look" similar, as
    should be in a GUI environment.

    An edit box, for example, on most versions of Windows *always* has a border,
    regardless of what an author might say in an HTML page.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Jul 13, 2004
    #11
  12. Mark Findlay

    Toby Inkster Guest

    rf wrote:

    > The real reason IMHO is that some browsers, especially older ones, use the
    > standard Windows Common Controls for form elements


    Certainly this doesn't apply to Opera 7.x -- it draws its own widgets.

    Many others however do fall back to standard widgets (and not only on
    Windows!)

    > Windows Common Controls, being common, have little that can be styled.


    Fiddling around in VB shows that to be false. You can easily control the
    font family, size, italics, weight, etc, change the foreground and
    background colours

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
    Toby Inkster, Jul 14, 2004
    #12
  13. Mark Findlay

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:

    > rf wrote:
    >
    >
    >>The real reason IMHO is that some browsers, especially older ones, use the
    >>standard Windows Common Controls for form elements

    >
    >
    > Certainly this doesn't apply to Opera 7.x -- it draws its own widgets.
    >
    > Many others however do fall back to standard widgets (and not only on
    > Windows!)
    >
    >
    >>Windows Common Controls, being common, have little that can be styled.

    >
    >
    > Fiddling around in VB shows that to be false. You can easily control the
    > font family, size, italics, weight, etc, change the foreground and
    > background colours
    >


    And a lot more. Remember the whole of the Windows XP front end is
    essentially neutered XML - practically everything can be customized
    using tools like StyleXP - and these DO effect form elements within a
    page unless the designer has place the "<meta
    http-equiv="MSThemeCompatible" content="no" />" meta in the header.

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
    SpaceGirl, Jul 14, 2004
    #13
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