Cross-posting is good

Discussion in 'Python' started by mike420@ziplip.com, Oct 10, 2003.

  1. Guest

    David Rush wrote:

    >
    > You know I think that this thread has so far set a comp.lang.* record for
    > civilitiy in the face of a massively cross-posted language comparison
    > thread. I was even wondering if it was going to die a quiet death, too.
    >


    When cross-posting, people try to be more responsible, avoiding
    making incorrect claims that will not be tolerated by the larger
    reader community (like Python is very slow, C is inherently
    insecure, Lispers are stupid, etc.) That's why there are usually
    more balanced and less bigoted opinions expressed in such threads.

    Also, I think cross-posting benefits creative people. E.g.
    I noticed that the recent thread "Python syntax in Lisp and
    Scheme" tought many Pythonistas and Haskellers about macros,
    while many Lispers learned about "yield" and that the
    usual examples of macros like UNWIND-PROTECT and its
    friend WITH-OPEN-FILE do not have to be macros at all,
    if your fingers can manage to type the magic 6 letters.
    (OK, the syntax is better without those magic letters, but
    it's the only difference. If you want to demostrate the real
    power of macros, show code introspection.)

    If you only program from 9 to 5, and it's 2 months till your
    retirement, and you think you don't need such exposure to new
    ideas from other language groups, it's best you killfile
    all crossposted articles, or whatever, just don't whine.

    OTOH, such idea exposure could have prevented such big
    mistakes like C#, Mozart/Oz, XML++, ARC and others.
     
    , Oct 10, 2003
    #1
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  2. wrote:
    > OTOH, such idea exposure could have prevented such big
    > mistakes like C#, Mozart/Oz, XML++, ARC and others.


    Having been exposed to C# and Mozart/Oz: what mistakes do you see in
    these languages?

    Regards,
    Jo
     
    Joachim Durchholz, Oct 10, 2003
    #2
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  3. >>>>> "mike420" == mike420 <> writes:

    mike420> C is inherently insecure

    Surely we can agree on this being a fact.

    ;-)


    ------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
    Christian Lynbech | christian #\@ defun #\. dk
    ------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------
    Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual.
    - (Michael A. Petonic)
     
    Christian Lynbech, Oct 10, 2003
    #3
  4. wrote:
    ...
    > When cross-posting, people try to be more responsible, avoiding


    My general Usenet experience says otherwise, actually.

    > while many Lispers learned about "yield" and that the
    > usual examples of macros like UNWIND-PROTECT and its
    > friend WITH-OPEN-FILE do not have to be macros at all,
    > if your fingers can manage to type the magic 6 letters.


    Hmmm, which ones? Not 'yield' -- those are just FIVE...

    > OTOH, such idea exposure could have prevented such big
    > mistakes like C#, Mozart/Oz, XML++, ARC and others.


    You think Paul Graham's ARC is "a big mistake"? Why,
    specifically? What specific criticisms are you leveling
    at it? And why do you think Graham was lacking in "idea
    exposure"? I'm not saying I agree with the underlying
    design decisions &c, but I don't understand your point.

    I would be curious about just the same questions on
    Mozart/Oz, too (which also has the advantage that you
    can dowload it and play with it). What's so "bigly
    mistaken" about it? Why do you think the researchers
    from all over Europe who built it were suffering from
    lack of "idea exposure"?

    (( C# is basically just a competitive commercial move
    against Java and shares most of the latter's defects --
    but, again, "lack of idea exposure" doesn't seem to
    apply; as for XML++, wasn't it just a research project
    to enrich XML with "semantical descriptions"...? ))


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Oct 10, 2003
    #4
  5. Gerrit Holl Guest

    Christian Lynbech wrote:
    > >>>>> "mike420" == mike420 <> writes:

    >
    > mike420> C is inherently insecure
    >
    > Surely we can agree on this being a fact.
    >
    > ;-)


    Especially because we didn't crosspost to complang.c :)

    Gerrit (who didn't crosspost because he uses clpy's m->n gateway)

    --
    208. If he was a freed man, he shall pay one-third of a mina.
    -- 1780 BC, Hammurabi, Code of Law
    --
    Asperger Syndroom - een persoonlijke benadering:
    http://people.nl.linux.org/~gerrit/
    Kom in verzet tegen dit kabinet:
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    Gerrit Holl, Oct 10, 2003
    #5
  6. Nick Vargish Guest

    Joachim Durchholz <> writes:

    > Having been exposed to C# and Mozart/Oz: what mistakes do you see in
    > these languages?


    I would love to see an article along the lines of "C# Programming
    Considered Harmful". Anyone working on such a thing?

    Nick

    --
    # sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
    print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
     
    Nick Vargish, Oct 10, 2003
    #6
  7. Tayss Guest

    Alex Martelli <> wrote in message news:<FTyhb.259987$>...
    > > OTOH, such idea exposure could have prevented such big
    > > mistakes like C#, Mozart/Oz, XML++, ARC and others.

    >
    > You think Paul Graham's ARC is "a big mistake"? Why,
    > specifically? What specific criticisms are you leveling
    > at it? And why do you think Graham was lacking in "idea
    > exposure"? I'm not saying I agree with the underlying
    > design decisions &c, but I don't understand your point.


    It appears to be a sarcastic bigoted comment, based on his earlier
    paragraph: "(like Python is very slow, C is inherently insecure,
    Lispers are stupid, etc.) That's why there are usually more balanced
    and less bigoted opinions expressed in such threads."
     
    Tayss, Oct 11, 2003
    #7
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