CSS is seriously broken

Discussion in 'XML' started by Retlak, Jan 26, 2004.

  1. Retlak

    Retlak Guest

    A week ago I decided to convert an old web site from frames to a
    frameless layout.

    I'd done this before with a different website, converted from layout
    using frames to layout using tables. Pretty easy.

    But this time I thought - table layout is obsolete too, time to learn
    CSS.

    A task that would have been trivial, and taken maybe an hour, using
    tables, has wasted about a week of my time. Layout that is trivial
    with tables is very difficult with CSS. There are lots of websites
    with advice on how to get 2-column layout ... how to ensure that the 2
    columns look the same length even when their content is not the same
    length ... how to position a footer so that it's right at the bottom
    of the page ... but the very proliferation of such websites indicates
    that something is wrong. I remember that when tables came out, it took
    under an hour to come up to speed. Frames were very intuitive, too.
    The model was CLEAR. You didn't need websites explaining how to do
    simple layouts with tables or frames.

    The layout model for CSS is NOT clear. Simple layouts, that used to be
    trivial with frames or tables, should be simple to create. In my
    opinion, the people who developed CSS have botched the job. They were
    sidetracked into enabling all kinds of fancy effects and they lost
    sight of the main goal.

    Question is, what do we all do now? Go back to using tables for
    layout?
     
    Retlak, Jan 26, 2004
    #1
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  2. Martin Honnen, Jan 26, 2004
    #2
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  3. Martin Honnen wrote:
    >
    >
    > Retlak wrote:
    >
    > > [difficulties with CSS based layout]

    >
    > Unless you are trying to style some XML document your post seems
    > off-topic here. Maybe you are looking for
    > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets


    And in case the OP wants to style some XML (not XHTML), the browser
    doesn't know anything about tables/frames. So the OP would have to use
    "display: table/table-row/table-cell", which is provided by CSS. But
    then he would probably see that WinIE does not support this and would
    hopefully blame the browser vendor, not the CSS authors.
    --
    Johannes Koch
    In te domine speravi; non confundar in aeternum.
    (Te Deum, 4th cent.)
     
    Johannes Koch, Jan 26, 2004
    #3
  4. Retlak

    Retlak Guest

    Martin Honnen <> wrote in message news:<401534c9$>...
    > Retlak wrote:
    >
    > > [difficulties with CSS based layout]

    >
    > Unless you are trying to style some XML document your post seems
    > off-topic here. Maybe you are looking for
    > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets


    Layout of XML is what CSS is for, so my post is not off-topic. The
    world can't move to XML for websites until there is some layout
    mechanism - today, CSS is all there is.
    The techniques I mentioned which refer to XHTML are simply used as
    examples of clear models.
     
    Retlak, Jan 26, 2004
    #4
  5. Retlak

    Mark Preston Guest

    On 26 Jan 2004 14:38:44 -0800, (Retlak) wrote:

    >Martin Honnen <> wrote in message news:<401534c9$>...
    >> Retlak wrote:
    >>
    >> > [difficulties with CSS based layout]

    >>
    >> Unless you are trying to style some XML document your post seems
    >> off-topic here. Maybe you are looking for
    >> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets

    >
    >Layout of XML is what CSS is for, so my post is not off-topic. The
    >world can't move to XML for websites until there is some layout
    >mechanism - today, CSS is all there is.
    >The techniques I mentioned which refer to XHTML are simply used as
    >examples of clear models.
    >

    The problem is, you didn't say what the problem was. CSS is definately
    not "broken", but a lot of implementations of it in browsers
    (especialy the Microsoft browsers) is broken.

    If you could be more detailed about your problem, perhaps we could
    help and you can move on.
     
    Mark Preston, Jan 27, 2004
    #5
  6. Layout of XML is not the only thing for which CSS is used; at my
    company we apply CSS stylesheets to plain old HTML. Also, CSS is not
    all there is for applying layout to xml documents. XSL:FO can be used
    for website design as well as printed output. Much of the world has
    already moved to XML based websites, notwithstanding the problems
    you're having with CSS.

    (Retlak) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Martin Honnen <> wrote in message news:<401534c9$>...
    > > Retlak wrote:
    > >
    > > > [difficulties with CSS based layout]

    > >
    > > Unless you are trying to style some XML document your post seems
    > > off-topic here. Maybe you are looking for
    > > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets

    >
    > Layout of XML is what CSS is for, so my post is not off-topic. The
    > world can't move to XML for websites until there is some layout
    > mechanism - today, CSS is all there is.
    > The techniques I mentioned which refer to XHTML are simply used as
    > examples of clear models.
     
    Mike Partridge, Jan 27, 2004
    #6
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