CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With Valid DOCTYPE.

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Larry Lindstrom, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. Hi Folks:

    Developing on my Solaris system.

    Long ago, in another century, I was a moderately competent HTML
    novice.

    I'm attempting to get up to speed with the HTML Dog tutorial. When
    I'm finished with that I'm planning on moving to W3 School. Any
    suggestions for a different approach or recommendations for a tutorial?

    I was attempting to get external CSS working. I was happy with my
    progress, until I realized that I had a typo in my DOCTYPE statement.

    This is the DOCTYPE for the page that has a working CSS:

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

    The second line starts with an angle bracket where a quote is needed.

    The page displays as I would hope the CSS would influence it.

    Correcting the DOCTYPE typo seems to cause the CSS to be ignored and
    the text to be displayed in the default colors.

    W3C Markup Validation Service complains about the invalid "<"
    character in the DOCTYPE, of the page that displays properly.

    The HTML and the CSS Validation Services seem happy with the page that
    ignores the CSS.

    Here is the IP address of the page on my server:


    http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/02_css_beginner_tutorial/01_applying_css/

    I hope I'm not opening myself up for an attack by giving out that URL.

    I'm sure this is something stupid.

    What am I doing wrong?

    Thanks
    Larry
    Larry Lindstrom, Jun 10, 2012
    #1
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  2. Larry Lindstrom

    Robin Rattay Guest

    Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    Am 10.06.2012 12:22, schrieb Larry Lindstrom:
    > I'm attempting to get up to speed with the HTML Dog tutorial. When
    > I'm finished with that I'm planning on moving to W3 School. Any
    > suggestions for a different approach or recommendations for a tutorial?


    HTML Dog is a great tutorial, however you should avoid W3School (see
    http://w3fools.com/). I can't think of another good tutorial, but I use
    the Mozilla Developer Network as a reference. It includes inforamtion
    about non-Mozilla browsers: https://developer.mozilla.org/

    > I was attempting to get external CSS working. I was happy with my
    > progress, until I realized that I had a typo in my DOCTYPE statement.
    >
    > This is the DOCTYPE for the page that has a working CSS:
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    > <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">


    A wrong DOCTYPE lets the browser render the document in "quirksmode"
    which tries to simulare buggy and broken old browsers. Whith a correct
    DOCTYPE the document is rendered "standards mode" (according to the
    newest standards) and that is what you usually want.

    If the CSS isn't applied at all in standards mode, it usually means that
    the CSS file isn't being loaded due to a wrong MIME type sent by the
    server. You'll need to check if the server is sending the CSS as text/css.

    Whch browser do you uasally test in? Most current browsers have
    developer tools built in or easily added as an extension. These
    developer tools report such problems in the console.

    Robin
    Robin Rattay, Jun 10, 2012
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Larry Lindstrom

    dorayme Guest

    In article <jr1shb$f6i$>,
    Larry Lindstrom <> wrote:

    > I'm attempting to get up to speed with the HTML Dog tutorial. When
    > I'm finished with that I'm planning on moving to W3 School. Any
    > suggestions for a different approach or recommendations for a tutorial?
    >


    Not bad tutes in some ways but they are not particularly wise about
    the doctypes they use. XHTML seems to have been a dead end and you
    will be wise to look at either 4.01 Strict or HTML5.

    > This is the DOCTYPE for the page that has a working CSS:
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    > <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
    >
    > The second line starts with an angle bracket where a quote is needed.
    >
    > The page displays as I would hope the CSS would influence it.
    >
    > Correcting the DOCTYPE typo seems to cause the CSS to be ignored and
    > the text to be displayed in the default colors.
    >
    > W3C Markup Validation Service complains about the invalid "<"
    > character in the DOCTYPE, of the page that displays properly.
    >
    > The HTML and the CSS Validation Services seem happy with the page that
    > ignores the CSS.
    >
    > Here is the IP address of the page on my server:
    >
    >
    > http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/02_css_beginner_tutorial/01_applying_css/
    >
    > I hope I'm not opening myself up for an attack by giving out that URL.
    >


    I broke into your home and was surprised to find 10 million dollars in
    used bank notes under the large shiny frypan in the lower left
    cupboard. Thanks! <g>

    > I'm sure this is something stupid.
    >
    > What am I doing wrong?
    >


    How have you saved your css, in what editor? Perhaps your server is
    not set up to understand the text file?

    <http://dorayme.netweaver.com.au/xhtml.html>

    displays the styles as you are trying for.

    As for when you are getting the doctype wrong, it perhaps tells the
    browser to go into some quirks mode.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 10, 2012
    #3
  4. Larry Lindstrom

    richard Guest

    On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 03:22:33 -0700, Larry Lindstrom wrote:

    > Hi Folks:
    >
    > Developing on my Solaris system.
    >
    > Long ago, in another century, I was a moderately competent HTML
    > novice.
    >
    > I'm attempting to get up to speed with the HTML Dog tutorial. When
    > I'm finished with that I'm planning on moving to W3 School. Any
    > suggestions for a different approach or recommendations for a tutorial?
    >
    > I was attempting to get external CSS working. I was happy with my
    > progress, until I realized that I had a typo in my DOCTYPE statement.
    >
    > This is the DOCTYPE for the page that has a working CSS:
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    > <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
    >
    > The second line starts with an angle bracket where a quote is needed.
    >
    > The page displays as I would hope the CSS would influence it.
    >
    > Correcting the DOCTYPE typo seems to cause the CSS to be ignored and
    > the text to be displayed in the default colors.
    >
    > W3C Markup Validation Service complains about the invalid "<"
    > character in the DOCTYPE, of the page that displays properly.
    >
    > The HTML and the CSS Validation Services seem happy with the page that
    > ignores the CSS.
    >
    > Here is the IP address of the page on my server:
    >
    >
    > http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/02_css_beginner_tutorial/01_applying_css/
    >
    > I hope I'm not opening myself up for an attack by giving out that URL.
    >
    > I'm sure this is something stupid.
    >
    > What am I doing wrong?
    >
    >


    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

    On both of your pages given, you show a "<" before the "http".
    the info is intended to be displayed as two lines.

    One of the reasons you get errors, is simply for the fact there is no
    title.

    While it has been the habit of many to use xhtml, IMO, it should be avoided
    unless you are actually using thoe elements.
    xhtml is intended to be used with xml.
    4.01 strict works just as well.
    richard, Jun 10, 2012
    #4
  5. Larry Lindstrom

    Gus Richter Guest

    Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    On 6/10/2012 6:22 AM, Larry Lindstrom wrote:
    > Hi Folks:
    >
    > Developing on my Solaris system.
    >
    > Long ago, in another century, I was a moderately competent HTML novice.
    >
    > I'm attempting to get up to speed with the HTML Dog tutorial. When
    > I'm finished with that I'm planning on moving to W3 School. Any
    > suggestions for a different approach or recommendations for a tutorial?
    >
    > I was attempting to get external CSS working. I was happy with my
    > progress, until I realized that I had a typo in my DOCTYPE statement.
    >
    > This is the DOCTYPE for the page that has a working CSS:
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    > <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
    >
    > The second line starts with an angle bracket where a quote is needed.
    >
    > The page displays as I would hope the CSS would influence it.
    >
    > Correcting the DOCTYPE typo seems to cause the CSS to be ignored and
    > the text to be displayed in the default colors.
    >
    > W3C Markup Validation Service complains about the invalid "<"
    > character in the DOCTYPE, of the page that displays properly.
    >
    > The HTML and the CSS Validation Services seem happy with the page that
    > ignores the CSS.
    >
    > Here is the IP address of the page on my server:
    >
    >
    > http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/02_css_beginner_tutorial/01_applying_css/
    >
    >
    > I hope I'm not opening myself up for an attack by giving out that URL.
    >
    > I'm sure this is something stupid.
    >
    > What am I doing wrong?


    With the bad doctype you cause the document to go into Quirks Mode. In
    Quirks Mode the Mime Type is not looked at and so the CSS file is
    accepted with its CSS extension. Hence the stylesheet rules are accepted.

    With the valid doctype your document is in Standards Mode and therefore
    the CSS file's Mime Type is looked at irregardless of the extension on
    the file. When the CSS file is served up as "text/css" Mime Type, as
    required it is accepted by the browser as such, however, in your case it
    is served up as "text/plain" Mime Type and therefore no stylesheet is
    presented to the document.

    Have your server serve up the CSS file as "text/css" and it will work.

    --
    Gus
    Gus Richter, Jun 10, 2012
    #5
  6. Larry Lindstrom

    Gus Richter Guest

    Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    On 6/10/2012 12:51 PM, richard wrote:
    > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    > "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
    >
    > On both of your pages given, you show a "<" before the "http".


    Not so. One is with and the other is without.

    > the info is intended to be displayed as two lines.


    Not true. The doctype declaration may be on one line. You may also line
    break at any white space.

    > One of the reasons you get errors, is simply for the fact there is no
    > title.


    Not so. Both have a title element.

    > While it has been the habit of many to use xhtml, IMO, it should be avoided
    > unless you are actually using thoe elements.
    > xhtml is intended to be used with xml.
    > 4.01 strict works just as well.


    This is basically correct. That's one for four.

    --
    Gus
    Gus Richter, Jun 10, 2012
    #6
  7. Larry Lindstrom

    richard Guest

    On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:32:40 -0400, Gus Richter wrote:

    > On 6/10/2012 12:51 PM, richard wrote:
    >> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    >> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
    >>
    >> On both of your pages given, you show a "<" before the "http".

    >
    > Not so. One is with and the other is without.
    >
    >> the info is intended to be displayed as two lines.

    >
    > Not true. The doctype declaration may be on one line. You may also line
    > break at any white space.
    >
    >> One of the reasons you get errors, is simply for the fact there is no
    >> title.

    >
    > Not so. Both have a title element.
    >
    >> While it has been the habit of many to use xhtml, IMO, it should be avoided
    >> unless you are actually using thoe elements.
    >> xhtml is intended to be used with xml.
    >> 4.01 strict works just as well.

    >
    > This is basically correct. That's one for four.


    I saw the "<" on line two on both pages.
    I saw no title on either page.
    Next time, I'm gonna copy and paste the entire page as proof.
    richard, Jun 10, 2012
    #7
  8. Larry Lindstrom

    richard Guest

    On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 03:22:33 -0700, Larry Lindstrom wrote:

    > Hi Folks:
    >
    > Developing on my Solaris system.
    >
    > Long ago, in another century, I was a moderately competent HTML
    > novice.
    >
    > I'm attempting to get up to speed with the HTML Dog tutorial. When
    > I'm finished with that I'm planning on moving to W3 School. Any
    > suggestions for a different approach or recommendations for a tutorial?
    >
    > I was attempting to get external CSS working. I was happy with my
    > progress, until I realized that I had a typo in my DOCTYPE statement.
    >
    > This is the DOCTYPE for the page that has a working CSS:
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    > <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">


    See this Gus Richter? This is exactly what I saw on both pages.
    The second "<" is not needed.
    richard, Jun 10, 2012
    #8
  9. Larry Lindstrom

    Gus Richter Guest

    Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    On 6/10/2012 3:00 PM, richard wrote:
    >> > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    >> > <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

    > See this Gus Richter? This is exactly what I saw on both pages.
    > The second "<" is not needed.


    The 1st link gives:
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    <http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

    The 2nd link gives:
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

    --
    Gus
    Gus Richter, Jun 11, 2012
    #9
  10. Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    Thanks Everybody:

    It's nice to see a flourishing newsgroup. I prefer this to forums.

    I'm Browsing with Firefox 13.0 on a Win 7 PC.

    The server is OpenSolaris running Apache 2.2.15 installed two years
    ago.

    Dorayme and Richard suggested replacing the DOCTYPE reference to
    xhtml with either 4.01 Strict or HTML5.

    Neither had any effect. To conform to the future standards I
    settled on the simple HTML5 DOCTYPE:

    <!DOCTYPE html>

    HTML and CSS validators were fine with the change.

    I know this is an HTML newsgroup, and Apache is not the topic.
    Robin and Gus suggested it might be a server issue, and the HTML
    displays the proper colors on dorayme's server. Please forgive the off
    topic nature of the following.

    Let me describe my Apache install. Perhaps you can find what I'm
    doing wrong.

    I prefer to install all utilities, like Apache, from source.

    Those builds are run using the script shell, so everything is logged.

    The configure command, which is where one specifies any odd features
    for a build, is as generic as could be:

    ./configure --prefix=/opt/local/install_dir/apache

    The point being that at no time did I intentionally tell the install
    that I didn't want Apache to support CSS. I also didn't explicitly tell
    the install that I did want to support CSS.

    Searching the log for references to "css" reveals 6 CSS files placed
    in the following directory:

    httpd-2.2.15/docs/manual/style/css

    The mime.types file does not contain any entry with the text "css".

    I'm not qualified to mess with Apache's configuration, but I did
    re-start Apache after adding the following line to the mime.types file:

    text/css css

    That "fix" didn't have any effect.

    Is that entry required in mime.types?

    How do I get Apache to properly deal with CSS?

    Thanks
    Larry
    Larry Lindstrom, Jun 11, 2012
    #10
  11. Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    Larry Lindstrom wrote:
    > Thanks Everybody:
    >
    > It's nice to see a flourishing newsgroup. I prefer this to forums.
    >
    > I'm Browsing with Firefox 13.0 on a Win 7 PC.
    >
    > The server is OpenSolaris running Apache 2.2.15 installed two years
    > ago.
    >
    > Dorayme and Richard suggested replacing the DOCTYPE reference to
    > xhtml with either 4.01 Strict or HTML5.
    >
    > Neither had any effect. To conform to the future standards I
    > settled on the simple HTML5 DOCTYPE:
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE html>
    >
    > HTML and CSS validators were fine with the change.
    >
    > I know this is an HTML newsgroup, and Apache is not the topic. Robin
    > and Gus suggested it might be a server issue, and the HTML displays the
    > proper colors on dorayme's server. Please forgive the off topic nature
    > of the following.
    >
    > Let me describe my Apache install. Perhaps you can find what I'm
    > doing wrong.
    >
    > I prefer to install all utilities, like Apache, from source.
    >
    > Those builds are run using the script shell, so everything is logged.
    >
    > The configure command, which is where one specifies any odd features
    > for a build, is as generic as could be:
    >
    > ./configure --prefix=/opt/local/install_dir/apache
    >
    > The point being that at no time did I intentionally tell the install
    > that I didn't want Apache to support CSS. I also didn't explicitly tell
    > the install that I did want to support CSS.
    >
    > Searching the log for references to "css" reveals 6 CSS files placed
    > in the following directory:
    >
    > httpd-2.2.15/docs/manual/style/css
    >
    > The mime.types file does not contain any entry with the text "css".
    >
    > I'm not qualified to mess with Apache's configuration, but I did
    > re-start Apache after adding the following line to the mime.types file:
    >
    > text/css css
    >
    > That "fix" didn't have any effect.
    >
    > Is that entry required in mime.types?
    >
    > How do I get Apache to properly deal with CSS?
    >
    > Thanks
    > Larry



    Any modern install of Apache should have stylesheet mime already
    configured by default. The 2.2.14 that I have installed on my private
    servers pulls it from the default /etc/mime.types which has entry:

    text/css css

    Now you can always add type to your httpd.conf (or .htacess) if you do
    not have direct access to the httpd.conf:

    AddType text/css .css

    But anyway I do not see what the problem is. For the page that you did
    not goof on the doctype:

    <http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/02_css_beginner_tutorial/01_applying_css/04_external_css_with_correct_doctype.html>

    The paragraphs are blue and the link is green just as you specify on
    your external stylesheet.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Jun 11, 2012
    #11
  12. Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    On 6/11/2012 12:03 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    > Larry Lindstrom wrote:
    >> Thanks Everybody:
    >>
    >> It's nice to see a flourishing newsgroup. I prefer this to forums.
    >>
    >> I'm Browsing with Firefox 13.0 on a Win 7 PC.
    >>
    >> The server is OpenSolaris running Apache 2.2.15 installed two years
    >> ago.
    >>
    >> Dorayme and Richard suggested replacing the DOCTYPE reference to
    >> xhtml with either 4.01 Strict or HTML5.
    >>
    >> Neither had any effect. To conform to the future standards I
    >> settled on the simple HTML5 DOCTYPE:
    >>
    >> <!DOCTYPE html>
    >>
    >> HTML and CSS validators were fine with the change.
    >>
    >> I know this is an HTML newsgroup, and Apache is not the topic. Robin
    >> and Gus suggested it might be a server issue, and the HTML displays the
    >> proper colors on dorayme's server. Please forgive the off topic nature
    >> of the following.
    >>
    >> Let me describe my Apache install. Perhaps you can find what I'm
    >> doing wrong.
    >>
    >> I prefer to install all utilities, like Apache, from source.
    >>
    >> Those builds are run using the script shell, so everything is logged.
    >>
    >> The configure command, which is where one specifies any odd features
    >> for a build, is as generic as could be:
    >>
    >> ./configure --prefix=/opt/local/install_dir/apache
    >>
    >> The point being that at no time did I intentionally tell the install
    >> that I didn't want Apache to support CSS. I also didn't explicitly tell
    >> the install that I did want to support CSS.
    >>
    >> Searching the log for references to "css" reveals 6 CSS files placed
    >> in the following directory:
    >>
    >> httpd-2.2.15/docs/manual/style/css
    >>
    >> The mime.types file does not contain any entry with the text "css".
    >>
    >> I'm not qualified to mess with Apache's configuration, but I did
    >> re-start Apache after adding the following line to the mime.types file:
    >>
    >> text/css css
    >>
    >> That "fix" didn't have any effect.
    >>
    >> Is that entry required in mime.types?
    >>
    >> How do I get Apache to properly deal with CSS?
    >>
    >> Thanks
    >> Larry

    >
    >
    > Any modern install of Apache should have stylesheet mime already
    > configured by default. The 2.2.14 that I have installed on my private
    > servers pulls it from the default /etc/mime.types which has entry:
    >
    > text/css css
    >
    > Now you can always add type to your httpd.conf (or .htacess) if you do
    > not have direct access to the httpd.conf:
    >
    > AddType text/css .css
    >
    > But anyway I do not see what the problem is. For the page that you did
    > not goof on the doctype:
    >
    > <http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/02_css_beginner_tutorial/01_applying_css/04_external_css_with_correct_doctype.html>
    >
    >
    > The paragraphs are blue and the link is green just as you specify on
    > your external stylesheet.
    >

    Thanks Jonathan:

    I'm still not seeing proper colors when displaying the page on my PC
    with Firefox or Internet Explorer.

    I decided to try accessing the page from my old XP laptop, and it
    displays with the proper colors running Firefox, Internet Explorer and
    Chrome!

    WTF???

    What can I be doing to my Windows 7 PC that causes FireFox and IE to
    fail to display with the CSS?

    Thanks again to everybody.

    Larry
    Larry Lindstrom, Jun 11, 2012
    #12
  13. Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    Larry Lindstrom wrote:

    >
    > I'm still not seeing proper colors when displaying the page on my PC
    > with Firefox or Internet Explorer.
    >
    > I decided to try accessing the page from my old XP laptop, and it
    > displays with the proper colors running Firefox, Internet Explorer and
    > Chrome!
    >
    > WTF???
    >
    > What can I be doing to my Windows 7 PC that causes FireFox and IE to
    > fail to display with the CSS?
    >
    > Thanks again to everybody.
    >




    It is called caching. Bet dollar to donuts your have a cached version of
    the page with the syntax error in the browsers on your Win7 pc. Hold
    down the SHIFT key when you click the reload button, or go in the
    setting an clear the browser cache.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Jun 11, 2012
    #13
  14. Larry Lindstrom

    dorayme Guest

    In article <jr5c61$k7g$>,
    Larry Lindstrom <> wrote:

    > [d]orayme... suggested replacing the DOCTYPE reference to
    > xhtml with either 4.01 Strict or HTML5.


    Just a note: this was not with any view to fixing your problem. It was
    more a point about doctypes, HTMLing in general, and slightly about
    htmldog...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 12, 2012
    #14
  15. Larry Lindstrom

    dorayme Guest

    In article <jr5j1j$5ed$>,
    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

    > Larry Lindstrom wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > I'm still not seeing proper colors when displaying the page on my PC
    > > with Firefox or Internet Explorer.
    > >
    > > I decided to try accessing the page from my old XP laptop, and it
    > > displays with the proper colors running Firefox, Internet Explorer and
    > > Chrome!
    > >
    > > WTF???
    > >
    > > What can I be doing to my Windows 7 PC that causes FireFox and IE to
    > > fail to display with the CSS?
    > >
    > > Thanks again to everybody.
    > >

    >
    >
    >
    > It is called caching. Bet dollar to donuts your have a cached version of
    > the page with the syntax error in the browsers on your Win7 pc. Hold
    > down the SHIFT key when you click the reload button, or go in the
    > setting an clear the browser cache.


    I might take a little of that action... How many dollars? <g>

    Were you saying something like you were not seeing a problem with

    <http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/02_css_beginner_tutorial/01_apply
    ing_css/04_external_css_with_correct_doctype.html>

    ?

    I see it, I get black text and el basic blue for the link in Safari,
    FF etc.

    Interestingly, when I use the Web Developer tools, (Pederick), the
    mere act of bringing up the CSS for editing in a panel, and doing
    nothing else, kicks the webpage display into the intended colours,
    blue text and green link. This mode of display seems to clear the way
    to the css file and connect it to the display.

    I think it is the OPs server, (remember, I put his files on my server
    and there was then no trouble), he needs to tell it things. Perhaps
    this will help:

    <http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_mime.html#addtype>

    or use htaccess.

    Or really, go to apache usenet groups.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 12, 2012
    #15
  16. Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <jr5j1j$5ed$>,
    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Larry Lindstrom wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> I'm still not seeing proper colors when displaying the page on my PC
    >>> with Firefox or Internet Explorer.
    >>>
    >>> I decided to try accessing the page from my old XP laptop, and it
    >>> displays with the proper colors running Firefox, Internet Explorer and
    >>> Chrome!
    >>>
    >>> WTF???
    >>>
    >>> What can I be doing to my Windows 7 PC that causes FireFox and IE to
    >>> fail to display with the CSS?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks again to everybody.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> It is called caching. Bet dollar to donuts your have a cached version of
    >> the page with the syntax error in the browsers on your Win7 pc. Hold
    >> down the SHIFT key when you click the reload button, or go in the
    >> setting an clear the browser cache.

    >
    > I might take a little of that action... How many dollars? <g>
    >
    > Were you saying something like you were not seeing a problem with
    >
    > <http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/02_css_beginner_tutorial/01_apply
    > ing_css/04_external_css_with_correct_doctype.html>
    >
    > ?
    >
    > I see it, I get black text and el basic blue for the link in Safari,
    > FF etc.


    <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/LarryLindstrom>

    ???

    >
    > Interestingly, when I use the Web Developer tools, (Pederick),



    Ditto

    > the mere act of bringing up the CSS for editing in a panel, and doing
    > nothing else, kicks the webpage display into the intended colours,
    > blue text and green link. This mode of display seems to clear the way
    > to the css file and connect it to the display.


    Did it for my BEFORE viewing the CSS, also IE doesn't used Pederick
    extension.

    >
    > I think it is the OPs server,


    Don't think so:

    <http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/css/02_01_03_external_css.css>

    Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 02:23:52 GMT
    Server: Apache/2.2.15 (Unix)
    Last-Modified: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 21:03:35 GMT
    Etag: "2f58c-2e-4c1e8379550f4"
    Accept-Ranges: bytes
    Content-Length: 46
    Content-Type: text/css

    200 OK


    > (remember, I put his files on my server
    > and there was then no trouble), he needs to tell it things. Perhaps
    > this will help:
    >
    > <http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_mime.html#addtype>
    >
    > or use htaccess.


    That's what I said, but I do not think that is his problem. More likely
    a stale cached version.


    >
    > Or really, go to apache usenet groups.
    >



    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Jun 12, 2012
    #16
  17. Larry Lindstrom

    dorayme Guest

    In article <jr69g2$b76$>,
    "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:

    ....
    > >
    > > Interestingly, when I use the Web Developer tools, (Pederick),

    >
    >
    > Ditto
    >


    But in your case it is not so interesting because you got the blue
    text and green link before using this tool, right? Anyway I think you
    might be right about the present situation and the cache being a
    culprit, the Pederick tools bypass the cache and that explains the
    phenemenum I mentioned.


    > > the mere act of bringing up the CSS for editing in a panel, and doing
    > > nothing else, kicks the webpage display into the intended colours,
    > > blue text and green link. This mode of display seems to clear the way
    > > to the css file and connect it to the display.

    >

    ....

    > >
    > > I think it is the OPs server,

    >
    > Don't think so:
    >
    > <http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/css/02_01_03_external_css.css>
    >
    > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 02:23:52 GMT
    > Server: Apache/2.2.15 (Unix)
    > Last-Modified: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 21:03:35 GMT
    > Etag: "2f58c-2e-4c1e8379550f4"
    > Accept-Ranges: bytes
    > Content-Length: 46
    > Content-Type: text/css
    >
    > 200 OK
    >
    >


    mmm...

    I think you *are* right about the present situation. When I clear the
    cache in Safari and FF, I get the intended colours. When I got what
    the OP was complaining about first time, day or two back, I went to
    his link when the cache could not have possibly contained his page and
    did not get the intended colours and so I conclude something has
    changed on his server or files since. Apologies to all if I am not
    following this thread closely.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jun 12, 2012
    #17
  18. Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    dorayme wrote:

    > I think you *are* right about the present situation. When I clear the
    > cache in Safari and FF, I get the intended colours. When I got what
    > the OP was complaining about first time, day or two back, I went to
    > his link when the cache could not have possibly contained his page and
    > did not get the intended colours and so I conclude something has
    > changed on his server or files since. Apologies to all if I am not
    > following this thread closely.
    >


    TIP: on my default browser that I use with developing where documents
    change frequently my cache setting:

    browser.cache.check_doc_frequency=1

    <http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.cache.check_doc_frequency>


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Jun 12, 2012
    #18
  19. Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    On 6/11/2012 7:28 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    > dorayme wrote:
    >> In article <jr5j1j$5ed$>,
    >> "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Larry Lindstrom wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm still not seeing proper colors when displaying the page on my PC
    >>>> with Firefox or Internet Explorer.
    >>>>
    >>>> I decided to try accessing the page from my old XP laptop, and it
    >>>> displays with the proper colors running Firefox, Internet Explorer and
    >>>> Chrome!
    >>>>
    >>>> WTF???
    >>>>
    >>>> What can I be doing to my Windows 7 PC that causes FireFox and IE to
    >>>> fail to display with the CSS?
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks again to everybody.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> It is called caching. Bet dollar to donuts your have a cached version of
    >>> the page with the syntax error in the browsers on your Win7 pc. Hold
    >>> down the SHIFT key when you click the reload button, or go in the
    >>> setting an clear the browser cache.

    >>
    >> I might take a little of that action... How many dollars? <g>
    >>
    >> Were you saying something like you were not seeing a problem with
    >>
    >> <http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/02_css_beginner_tutorial/01_apply
    >> ing_css/04_external_css_with_correct_doctype.html>
    >>
    >> ?
    >>
    >> I see it, I get black text and el basic blue for the link in Safari,
    >> FF etc.

    >
    > <http://www.littleworksstudio.com/temp/usenet/LarryLindstrom>
    >
    > ???
    >
    >>
    >> Interestingly, when I use the Web Developer tools, (Pederick),

    >
    >
    > Ditto
    >
    >> the mere act of bringing up the CSS for editing in a panel, and doing
    >> nothing else, kicks the webpage display into the intended colours,
    >> blue text and green link. This mode of display seems to clear the way
    >> to the css file and connect it to the display.

    >
    > Did it for my BEFORE viewing the CSS, also IE doesn't used Pederick
    > extension.
    >
    >>
    >> I think it is the OPs server,

    >
    > Don't think so:
    >
    > <http://67.171.145.190/htmldog_htdocs/css/02_01_03_external_css.css>
    >
    > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 02:23:52 GMT
    > Server: Apache/2.2.15 (Unix)
    > Last-Modified: Thu, 07 Jun 2012 21:03:35 GMT
    > Etag: "2f58c-2e-4c1e8379550f4"
    > Accept-Ranges: bytes
    > Content-Length: 46
    > Content-Type: text/css
    >
    > 200 OK
    >
    >
    >> (remember, I put his files on my server
    >> and there was then no trouble), he needs to tell it things. Perhaps
    >> this will help:
    >>
    >> <http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_mime.html#addtype>
    >>
    >> or use htaccess.

    >
    > That's what I said, but I do not think that is his problem. More likely
    > a stale cached version.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Or really, go to apache usenet groups.
    >>

    >
    >

    Thanks Again Folks:

    On the Win 7 system I re-loaded the pages, with that circular arrow
    button, using FireFox and IE.

    Neither would display with the CSS designated colors.

    So I shut down and restarted the Win 7 system.

    The pages now display properly.

    The differences on the server side are that the second page has the
    proper HTML 5 DOCTYPE. And the conf/mime.types and /etc/mime.types now
    have the "css" line in.

    I restarted Apache after adding the css lines to the mime.types files.

    I'm going to retrofit the HTML 5 DOCTYPE into all of the pages I've
    writen for the tutorial.

    Again, I'm very grateful for everybody's response. I'm sure I'll
    have more questions.

    Thanks
    Larry
    Larry Lindstrom, Jun 12, 2012
    #19
  20. Re: CSS Newbie - CSS Works With Invalid DOCTYPE. Fails With ValidDOCTYPE.

    Larry Lindstrom wrote:

    >
    > On the Win 7 system I re-loaded the pages, with that circular arrow
    > button, using FireFox and IE.


    That is a "soft" reload, to do a "hard" reload and get a fresh copy from
    the server hold down the shift key when clicking that button.


    >
    > Neither would display with the CSS designated colors.
    >
    > So I shut down and restarted the Win 7 system.


    A bit drastic and unnecessary. You can manually dump the cache on your
    browser

    FF: Firefox Button > Options > Advanced > Network > Cached Web Content
    click Clear Now

    IE: Gear Button > Internet Options > General > Browser History click
    Delete...


    For Firefox that is an extension to add a toolbar button for
    one-click-convenience, or if you do web development you can set a
    browser to always check the page for updated content.

    FF: enter about:config in address bar search with
    browser.cache.check_doc_frequency then change default 3 to 1

    IE: Gear Button > Internet Options > General > Browser History click
    Settings change option for Check for newer versions of stored pages:
    from Automatically to Every time I visit the webpage


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Jun 12, 2012
    #20
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