CSS2 question

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Becky Lash, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. Becky Lash

    Becky Lash Guest

    Hi, all,

    I am trying to transition an existing site to css2 and xhtml. I'm in the
    early stages of learning this technology too.

    Firefox is stumping me on div behavior and absolute positioning. I've seen a
    lot of discussion about this , but haven't quite found the answer to my
    problem (or recognized it, if it is staring me in the face).

    My menu graphics look fine in IE, but in Firefox, they are not lining up
    correctly on the vertical axis. Do you know of any fixes?

    www.smallbusinessproofreading.com/woodstone

    Here's my .css, in case that helps:


    ul, li {font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana,Arial,sans-serif }
    #QUOTE { font-style: italic; color: #0000A0 }
    #new { color: #FF0000; text-decoration: none; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    sans-serif; font-weight: bold}

    H1 { font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    sans-serif; color: #74C3FC; text-decoration: none}
    H2 { font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    sans-serif; color: #74C3FC; text-decoration: none}
    H3 {font-weight: bold; color: #21962E;font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    sans-serif; text-decoration: none ; padding-left: 5em}
    H4 {font-weight: bold; color: #74C3FC; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    sans-serif; text-decoration: none }

    a {text-decoration: underline; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
    font-weight: bold ; color: #FF0000}
    ..buynow {text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; color: #FF0000}
    a:visited { color: #996666; }
    ..praise {color: #0000A0; font-style:italic}
    ..default { background-color: #ffffff}
    ..menuitem { color: #157A85; text-decoration: underline; font-family:
    Verdana,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold }
    ..title { font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; color:
    #880606}
    ..saheading { font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: Verdana,
    Arial, sans-serif; color: #74C3FC}
    ..smallbody { font-size: 14px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
    color: #000000; margin-top: auto; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: auto;
    margin-left: auto}
    ..quotation { color: #003366; font-size: 12px; font-family:
    Verdana,Arial,sans-serif ;font-style:italic}
    h5 { font-weight: bold; color: #74C3FC; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    sans-serif; text-decoration: none ; font-size: 16px}
    h6 { color: #74C3FC; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold; text-align: center}
    p.awards { text-align: center; padding: 2em 2em }


    div.imgholder {
    float:left;
    background: url(dropshadow.png) no-repeat bottom
    right;
    background: url(dropshadow.gif) no-repeat bottom right;
    margin: 10px 7px 0 10px;

    }
    div.imgholder img {
    display:block;
    position:relative;
    background-color: #fff;
    border: 1px solid #666;
    margin: -3px 5px 5px -3px;
    padding: 2px;
    }
    hr {
    color: #DB581F;
    background-color: #DB581F;
    width: 80%;
    height: 3px;
    margin-left: auto;
    margin-right: auto;
    ; text-align: left
    }
    div.body { font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
    padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-top:
    0px; height: auto; width: auto; border-left-width: medium; margin-right:
    0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; float: right; margin-top: 0px;
    clear: right}
    p { font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; height: auto;
    width: auto; border-left-width: medium;margin-top:0;}
    p.body { font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
    padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-top:
    0px; border-left-width: medium}

    ..features { text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; color: #21962E}

    thanks for any advice! I am new at this.

    Becky
     
    Becky Lash, Nov 22, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. in alt.html, Becky Lash wrote:
    > Hi, all,
    >
    > I am trying to transition an existing site to css2 and xhtml.


    I'll recommend you to start from scratch, and not use XHTML, but HTML.
    Especially as you don't seem to have any clue about XHTML (there is very
    little people around that has clue about XHTML. For example, W3 doesn't
    have, and they invented t:
    http://validator.w3.org//check?uri=http://www.w3.org/2004/11/
    orf2004%2F&ss=&outline=).

    Usually, it is much more easy to build site again from scratch than
    change it bit by bit. Or maybe always.

    Make HTML that is correct, do not think about layout at all while doing
    that. Then start aplying CSS. Then ask again when you have problem.

    It makes no sence to try debug page that uses 5 levels of nested tables,
    is incorrect or invalid by almost any aspect etc. It would take me ages
    to find out where you are trying to do something.

    > I'm in the early stages of learning this technology too.


    Even more important to start again. In fact, you might need to do it
    twice. But it is still faster than converting existing site...

    > Firefox is stumping me on div behavior and absolute positioning. I've seen a
    > lot of discussion about this , but haven't quite found the answer to my
    > problem (or recognized it, if it is staring me in the face).


    Most likely, FF is doing things right, and IE wrong. If you mean :hover
    images, I can see bad results in Opera too.

    > My menu graphics look fine in IE, but in Firefox, they are not lining up
    > correctly on the vertical axis. Do you know of any fixes?
    >
    > www.smallbusinessproofreading.com/woodstone
    >
    > Here's my .css, in case that helps:


    <snip>

    No, it is too long, would take ages to find right spot.

    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
     
    Lauri Raittila, Nov 22, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Becky Lash

    Becky Lash Guest

    Disclaimer: The light blue headings, flashing GIFs, and other strange
    devices on this web site are at the <insistance> of the customer, after I
    let him know the disadvantages of this kind of design (or lack of, rather).
     
    Becky Lash, Nov 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Becky Lash

    Becky Lash Guest

    OK. I can agree with that, although I hate to take the time to rip out all
    those tables and start from scratch, as the customer is not willing to pay
    for the time. I inherited this site and am trying to clean up stuff as I go.

    I hate those tables too, but will bite the bullet and rip them out of all
    those pages. Thanks for the advice.


    "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > in alt.html, Becky Lash wrote:
    >> Hi, all,
    >>
    >> I am trying to transition an existing site to css2 and xhtml.

    >
    > I'll recommend you to start from scratch, and not use XHTML, but HTML.
    > Especially as you don't seem to have any clue about XHTML (there is very
    > little people around that has clue about XHTML. For example, W3 doesn't
    > have, and they invented t:
    > http://validator.w3.org//check?uri=http://www.w3.org/2004/11/
    > orf2004%2F&ss=&outline=).
    >
    > Usually, it is much more easy to build site again from scratch than
    > change it bit by bit. Or maybe always.
    >
    > Make HTML that is correct, do not think about layout at all while doing
    > that. Then start aplying CSS. Then ask again when you have problem.
    >
    > It makes no sence to try debug page that uses 5 levels of nested tables,
    > is incorrect or invalid by almost any aspect etc. It would take me ages
    > to find out where you are trying to do something.
    >
    >> I'm in the early stages of learning this technology too.

    >
    > Even more important to start again. In fact, you might need to do it
    > twice. But it is still faster than converting existing site...
    >
    >> Firefox is stumping me on div behavior and absolute positioning. I've
    >> seen a
    >> lot of discussion about this , but haven't quite found the answer to my
    >> problem (or recognized it, if it is staring me in the face).

    >
    > Most likely, FF is doing things right, and IE wrong. If you mean :hover
    > images, I can see bad results in Opera too.
    >
    >> My menu graphics look fine in IE, but in Firefox, they are not lining up
    >> correctly on the vertical axis. Do you know of any fixes?
    >>
    >> www.smallbusinessproofreading.com/woodstone
    >>
    >> Here's my .css, in case that helps:

    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > No, it is too long, would take ages to find right spot.
    >
    > --
    > Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
     
    Becky Lash, Nov 22, 2004
    #4
  5. in alt.html, Becky Lash wrote:
    > OK. I can agree with that, although I hate to take the time to rip out all
    > those tables and start from scratch, as the customer is not willing to pay
    > for the time. I inherited this site and am trying to clean up stuff as I go.


    No need to do that. Just copy/paste the content somewhere and mark it up.
    Much faster, in my experience...

    > I hate those tables too, but will bite the bullet and rip them out of all
    > those pages. Thanks for the advice.


    Please don't top-post in future.

    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
     
    Lauri Raittila, Nov 22, 2004
    #5
  6. Becky Lash

    Becky Lash Guest

    oops. sorry about the top posting. thanks for the pointers.
     
    Becky Lash, Nov 22, 2004
    #6
  7. On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:48:40 -0600, Becky Lash wrote:

    > OK. I can agree with that, although I hate to take the time to rip out all
    > those tables and start from scratch, as the customer is not willing to pay
    > for the time. I inherited this site and am trying to clean up stuff as I go.
    >
    > I hate those tables too, but will bite the bullet and rip them out of all
    > those pages. Thanks for the advice.


    All you need is the content. Provided that the site uses some sort of
    templating to get the layout the same on all pages. Any kind of
    templating system will do, be it server side includes or client side site
    management tool.

    Take content (JUST the content) and mark up from scratch. Propagate new
    HTML template across site. presto! New site!

    --
    Jeffrey D. Silverman |
    Website | http://www.newtnotes.com

    Drop "PANTS" to reply by email
     
    Jeffrey Silverman, Nov 22, 2004
    #7
  8. Becky Lash

    Becky Lash Guest

    sure thing. I am using server-side includes.
     
    Becky Lash, Nov 22, 2004
    #8
  9. Becky Lash

    C A Upsdell Guest

    "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > in alt.html, Becky Lash wrote:
    >> Hi, all,
    >>
    >> I am trying to transition an existing site to css2 and xhtml.

    >
    > I'll recommend you to start from scratch, and not use XHTML, but HTML.


    Going back to HTML will likely have no effect on her problem. You're just
    throwing in a red herring.

    > Especially as you don't seem to have any clue about XHTML (there is very
    > little people around that has clue about XHTML. For example, W3 doesn't
    > have, and they invented t:
    > http://validator.w3.org//check?uri=http://www.w3.org/2004/11/
    > orf2004%2F&ss=&outline=).


    ? 401 error. Do you expect the validator to validate a page that can't be
    accessed?

    > Usually, it is much more easy to build site again from scratch than
    > change it bit by bit. Or maybe always.


    Yes.

    > Make HTML that is correct, do not think about layout at all while doing
    > that. Then start aplying CSS. Then ask again when you have problem.


    Yes. And validate both HTML and CSS before testing.

    > Most likely, FF is doing things right, and IE wrong. If you mean :hover
    > images, I can see bad results in Opera too.


    Yes. Usually (not always) if IE does what you expect, and Firefox does not,
    Firefox is right.
     
    C A Upsdell, Nov 22, 2004
    #9
  10. On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:14:29 -0600, Becky Lash <>
    wrote:

    > sure thing. I am using server-side includes.
    >


    Can you please include the part of the previous post to which you are
    responding. It gets hard to follow if this is all I see.


    --
    Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
    Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Nov 22, 2004
    #10
  11. in alt.html, C A Upsdell wrote:
    > "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    > > in alt.html, Becky Lash wrote:


    > >> I am trying to transition an existing site to css2 and xhtml.

    > >
    > > I'll recommend you to start from scratch, and not use XHTML, but HTML.

    >
    > Going back to HTML will likely have no effect on her problem. You're just
    > throwing in a red herring.


    No, OP obviously has no idea of what XHTML is, so OP shouldn't try to use
    it. I looked at source code, and only thing about XHTML was incorrect
    doctype in wrong place...

    > > For example, W3 doesn't have [clue about xhtml], and they invented it:

    <URL:http://validator.w3.org//check?uri=http://www.w3.org/2004/
    11%2Forf2004%2F>

    > ? 401 error. Do you expect the validator to validate a page that can't be
    > accessed?


    Well, it was not 401 when I used it, and it is not that now either.

    Maybe you didn't notice that URL wrapped?

    This is what validator says:

    This page is not Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict!

    Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML
    parser.

    Line 38, column 0: document type does not allow element "div" here;
    missing one of "object", "ins", "del", "map", "button" start-tag

    ><a title="PDF ?????????? (?????)" href="Program.p

    ....


    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
     
    Lauri Raittila, Nov 22, 2004
    #11
  12. Becky Lash

    Becky Lash Guest

    OK, Barbara. I was responding to the following comment:

    ++++snip++++comment from Jeffrey+++

    All you need is the content. Provided that the site uses some sort of
    templating to get the layout the same on all pages. Any kind of
    templating system will do, be it server side includes or client side site
    management tool.

    Take content (JUST the content) and mark up from scratch. Propagate new
    HTML template across site. presto! New site!

    ++++end of snip+++++
     
    Becky Lash, Nov 22, 2004
    #12
  13. Becky Lash

    C A Upsdell Guest

    "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > in alt.html, C A Upsdell wrote:
    >> "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    >> > in alt.html, Becky Lash wrote:

    >
    >> >> I am trying to transition an existing site to css2 and xhtml.
    >> >
    >> > I'll recommend you to start from scratch, and not use XHTML, but HTML.

    >>
    >> Going back to HTML will likely have no effect on her problem. You're
    >> just
    >> throwing in a red herring.

    >
    > No, OP obviously has no idea of what XHTML is, so OP shouldn't try to use
    > it. I looked at source code, and only thing about XHTML was incorrect
    > doctype in wrong place...


    But there were also a lot of HTML issues. The 'x' in xHTML is not the root
    of the OP's problems.
     
    C A Upsdell, Nov 22, 2004
    #13
  14. Becky Lash

    Becky Lash Guest

    +++snip++++++

    > But there were also a lot of HTML issues. The 'x' in xHTML is not the
    > root of the OP's problems.
    >
    >

    +++++end of snip++++

    Every aspect of this web site needs cleaning up, including the .html code.
    That is why I am trying to transition it to css. Starting from scratch with
    the content is good advice and is consistent with advice from several books
    by Meyers and Zeldman.
     
    Becky Lash, Nov 22, 2004
    #14
  15. in alt.html, C A Upsdell wrote:
    > "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message


    > > No, OP obviously has no idea of what XHTML is, so OP shouldn't try to use
    > > it. I looked at source code, and only thing about XHTML was incorrect
    > > doctype in wrong place...

    >
    > But there were also a lot of HTML issues. The 'x' in xHTML is not the root
    > of the OP's problems.


    Right but using XHTML correctly is much harder than HTML, and much easier
    to make mistakes. There is no point moving to XHTML. There is enaugh
    trouble to move to HTML + CSS for layout.

    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
     
    Lauri Raittila, Nov 22, 2004
    #15
  16. Becky Lash

    C A Upsdell Guest

    "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > in alt.html, C A Upsdell wrote:
    >> "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message

    >
    >> > No, OP obviously has no idea of what XHTML is, so OP shouldn't try to
    >> > use
    >> > it. I looked at source code, and only thing about XHTML was incorrect
    >> > doctype in wrong place...

    >>
    >> But there were also a lot of HTML issues. The 'x' in xHTML is not the
    >> root
    >> of the OP's problems.

    >
    > Right but using XHTML correctly is much harder than HTML, and much easier
    > to make mistakes. There is no point moving to XHTML. There is enaugh
    > trouble to move to HTML + CSS for layout.


    I find it easier to use xHTML, since it is stricter, e.g. requires closing
    tags and is case-sensitive.
     
    C A Upsdell, Nov 22, 2004
    #16
  17. In article <>, Becky Lash
    () dropped a +5 bundle of words...

    > +++snip++++++
    >
    > > But there were also a lot of HTML issues. The 'x' in xHTML is not the
    > > root of the OP's problems.
    > >
    > >

    > +++++end of snip++++
    >
    > Every aspect of this web site needs cleaning up, including the .html code.
    > That is why I am trying to transition it to css. Starting from scratch with
    > the content is good advice and is consistent with advice from several books
    > by Meyers and Zeldman.


    open outlook express

    tools --> options

    send tab

    check indent the orginal text with > when replying and quoting.

    And it'll format the post for you, so you don't have to keep doing it
    yourself.



    --
    Starshine Moonbeam
    mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
    sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
     
    Starshine Moonbeam, Nov 22, 2004
    #17
  18. Becky Lash

    Genomega Guest

    "Becky Lash" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi, all,
    >
    > I am trying to transition an existing site to css2 and xhtml. I'm in the
    > early stages of learning this technology too.
    >
    > Firefox is stumping me on div behavior and absolute positioning. I've seen

    a
    > lot of discussion about this , but haven't quite found the answer to my
    > problem (or recognized it, if it is staring me in the face).
    >
    > My menu graphics look fine in IE, but in Firefox, they are not lining up
    > correctly on the vertical axis. Do you know of any fixes?
    >
    > www.smallbusinessproofreading.com/woodstone
    >
    > Here's my .css, in case that helps:
    >
    >
    > ul, li {font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana,Arial,sans-serif }
    > #QUOTE { font-style: italic; color: #0000A0 }
    > #new { color: #FF0000; text-decoration: none; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    > sans-serif; font-weight: bold}
    >
    > H1 { font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    > sans-serif; color: #74C3FC; text-decoration: none}
    > H2 { font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    > sans-serif; color: #74C3FC; text-decoration: none}
    > H3 {font-weight: bold; color: #21962E;font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    > sans-serif; text-decoration: none ; padding-left: 5em}
    > H4 {font-weight: bold; color: #74C3FC; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    > sans-serif; text-decoration: none }
    >
    > a {text-decoration: underline; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
    > font-weight: bold ; color: #FF0000}
    > .buynow {text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; color: #FF0000}
    > a:visited { color: #996666; }
    > .praise {color: #0000A0; font-style:italic}
    > .default { background-color: #ffffff}
    > .menuitem { color: #157A85; text-decoration: underline; font-family:
    > Verdana,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold }
    > .title { font-size: 11px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; color:
    > #880606}
    > .saheading { font-weight: bold; font-size: 14px; font-family: Verdana,
    > Arial, sans-serif; color: #74C3FC}
    > .smallbody { font-size: 14px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
    > color: #000000; margin-top: auto; margin-right: auto; margin-bottom: auto;
    > margin-left: auto}
    > .quotation { color: #003366; font-size: 12px; font-family:
    > Verdana,Arial,sans-serif ;font-style:italic}
    > h5 { font-weight: bold; color: #74C3FC; font-family: Verdana, Arial,
    > sans-serif; text-decoration: none ; font-size: 16px}
    > h6 { color: #74C3FC; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
    > font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold; text-align: center}
    > p.awards { text-align: center; padding: 2em 2em }
    >
    >
    > div.imgholder {
    > float:left;
    > background: url(dropshadow.png) no-repeat bottom
    > right;
    > background: url(dropshadow.gif) no-repeat bottom right;
    > margin: 10px 7px 0 10px;
    >
    > }
    > div.imgholder img {
    > display:block;
    > position:relative;
    > background-color: #fff;
    > border: 1px solid #666;
    > margin: -3px 5px 5px -3px;
    > padding: 2px;
    > }
    > hr {
    > color: #DB581F;
    > background-color: #DB581F;
    > width: 80%;
    > height: 3px;
    > margin-left: auto;
    > margin-right: auto;
    > ; text-align: left
    > }
    > div.body { font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
    > padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px;

    padding-top:
    > 0px; height: auto; width: auto; border-left-width: medium; margin-right:
    > 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; float: right; margin-top: 0px;
    > clear: right}
    > p { font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; height:

    auto;
    > width: auto; border-left-width: medium;margin-top:0;}
    > p.body { font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
    > padding-right: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px;

    padding-top:
    > 0px; border-left-width: medium}
    >
    > .features { text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; color: #21962E}
    >
    > thanks for any advice! I am new at this.
    >
    > Becky
    >

    Your css looks fine however there are many html errors.
     
    Genomega, Nov 23, 2004
    #18
  19. Becky Lash

    kchayka Guest

    C A Upsdell wrote:
    >
    > I find it easier to use xHTML, since it is stricter, e.g. requires closing
    > tags and is case-sensitive.


    Hmmm... <img.../> is easier than <img...>? Easier to forget, maybe. ;)

    In HTML 4, there is nothing preventing you from including optional end
    tags like </p>, or using all lowercase for tags and attributes, or mixed
    case IDs and classes, or using a strict DOCTYPE.

    So what's that benefit again?

    --
    Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
    Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
     
    kchayka, Nov 23, 2004
    #19
  20. Becky Lash

    C A Upsdell Guest

    "kchayka" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >C A Upsdell wrote:
    >>
    >> I find it easier to use xHTML, since it is stricter, e.g. requires
    >> closing
    >> tags and is case-sensitive.

    >
    > Hmmm... <img.../> is easier than <img...>? Easier to forget, maybe. ;)


    Not when you use it every day.

    > In HTML 4, there is nothing preventing you from including optional end
    > tags like </p>, or using all lowercase for tags and attributes, or mixed
    > case IDs and classes, or using a strict DOCTYPE.


    Neither is there anything obliging you to do so. Oh yes, one can configure
    tools to check for such things, but it's a lot easier to just use a
    validator, which one should use anyway.
     
    C A Upsdell, Nov 23, 2004
    #20
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