Curious

Discussion in 'Java' started by snasta, Jun 5, 2004.

  1. snasta

    snasta Guest

    I have question for you people. What do you think of the current
    college and university graduates coming out of IT courses? What do you
    like and dislike about them in terms of skill levels, education and
    attitude? I ask this question because I am one of those new graduates
    looking for work in the IT field.

    Snasta
     
    snasta, Jun 5, 2004
    #1
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  2. "snasta" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have question for you people. What do you think of the current
    > college and university graduates coming out of IT courses? What do you
    > like and dislike about them in terms of skill levels, education and
    > attitude? I ask this question because I am one of those new graduates
    > looking for work in the IT field.


    They are all oafish, lazy, louts, who couldn't program their ways out of
    paper bags! All are smelly, argumentative, unimaginative, and I wouldn't
    give them the time of day.
    Okay?
    Just what kind of answer do you really want? Specify a school, a teacher,
    and a specific student; let me interview him or her; I'll be glad to give
    you an evaluation. Otherwise, the post is of the type "Seen any movies
    lately?"
    [Now that I feel better] you'll probably get lots of answers, which won't
    make all that much sense.
    --
    Gary
     
    Gary Labowitz, Jun 5, 2004
    #2
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  3. snasta

    Anthony Guest

    "snasta" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have question for you people. What do you think of the current
    > college and university graduates coming out of IT courses? What do you
    > like and dislike about them in terms of skill levels, education and
    > attitude? I ask this question because I am one of those new graduates
    > looking for work in the IT field.
    >
    > Snasta


    I find in the work envirnoment that there are a lot of older employees who
    themselves never had the confidence to attend university so their skills
    have mostly been learnt in house, quite resentful of graduates and unwilling
    to give them a fair go, not all but some.

    However, I am currently a post grad student in Internetworking. Things in
    Australia are vastly different to when I was at university ten years ago. I
    have watched people cheat their way out of assignments by paying to have
    them done over the internet. Currently, Australian universities are lifting
    fees for most courses and attracting a lot of full fee paying overseas
    students whose English is terrible. These people can't afford to fail
    subjects, due to visa constraints and costs of courses.
     
    Anthony, Jun 5, 2004
    #3
  4. snasta

    Toast Guest

    On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 17:52:06 -0700, snasta wrote:

    My experience has been the following:

    Good Stuff
    1. Fairly up to date on theory
    2. Fairly up to date on latest trends - especially if the student / recent
    graduate is really interested in the topic
    3. Fairly aggressive with technology - especially if the student has some
    graduate-level courses

    Bad Stuff
    1. Can be arrogant
    a) assured that there is only one way to solve a problem
    b) disconnect between person and average user experience
    2. Poor problem-solving skills
    a) lack of experiential - theoretical insight
    b) all problems are "nails" . . . and the recent graduate only has a
    hammer

    Solutions

    I think all IS / IT / CS students should develop a strong interest in
    another field as well as the computer field. Once that strong interest is
    developed, the student should then apply the computer expertise to solving
    annoying problems in the other interest.

    This marriage of experiential knowledge and theoretical knowledge does at
    least two things.

    1. Provides the student with an appreciation of a user point of view.
    After all, in the business / scientific world we are here to provide
    services. Simply because we have fun doing it is no reason to lose sight
    of this purpose.

    2. Develop a concept of mapping real-world challenges to solutions based
    on (hopefully) excellent technical / theoretical knowledge.

    3. Ingrain the Perl maxim as said by Larry Wall:

    As you know, the slogan for Perl culture is, "There's more than one way to
    do it."
    <a ref="htpp://www.wall.org/~larry/keynote/keynote.html">Keynote</a>

    There is probably more, but I hope you get the idea.

    /mde/
    just my two cents . . . .
     
    Toast, Jun 5, 2004
    #4
  5. snasta

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 05:55:12 +1000, "Anthony"
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >
    >I find in the work envirnoment that there are a lot of older employees who
    >themselves never had the confidence to attend university so their skills
    >have mostly been learnt in house, quite resentful of graduates and unwilling
    >to give them a fair go, not all but some.


    One thing rather distressing is the extreme degree of cheating going
    on in schools now. I'm pretty sure hardly anyone cheated on exams in
    the 50s and 60s in my high school, now a majority admit to it.

    Most of the offers I get for work are from students wanting me to do
    their student projects for them. I turn these down.

    This widespread acceptance of cheating as a way of life is going to
    reflect badly on ALL students of that generation.

    A degree mostly proves you CAN learn. If it no longer means that,
    what good is it?

    The knowledge itself goes stale so quickly.

    Employers are going to start requiring various professional
    certifications, things that are only valid for a few years, that use
    more stringent means to stop cheating on tests e.g. no cell phones and
    tests are open-book.

    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
    See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
     
    Roedy Green, Jun 5, 2004
    #5
  6. snasta wrote:
    > I have question for you people. What do you think of the current
    > college and university graduates coming out of IT courses? What do you
    > like and dislike about them in terms of skill levels, education and
    > attitude? I ask this question because I am one of those new graduates
    > looking for work in the IT field.
    >
    > Snasta


    I'm about to graduate from a Bachelor of Engineering (Software) at the
    University of Queensland, so I'd say I have a fairy reasonable view of IT
    graduates, at least in this city.

    Don't waste your money on anyone who's done a degree in Information Technology.
    Sure, there are a few, exceptionally bright thinkers, who can actually program
    and do useful things with a computer. The vast majority did IT because it was
    fashionable, and have no depth of understanding or theory, let alone practical
    knowledge of the systems they have been 'taught' to use. Sure, sit them down at
    their usual GUI IDE with plenty of example code and they'll be able to code a
    simple application. Throw them at, say, a Linux box with vi/vim/gvim or emacs,
    and a nontrival problem, well, they're sunk. I've met final-year IT students who
    had better-than-passing grades who couldn't understand the concept of scope.

    Of course, there is some inter-degree rivalry surfacing here, since engineers
    (of which I am one) universally believe that IT students suck.

    Then again, I took a survey of a fairly fundamental subject comprised of about
    half engineers and half IT students ... and IT students suck. Or at least, on a
    comparison of final marks for the subject.

    Simply put: very few IT programs out there give more than a cursory
    understanding of the field, and since cheating is so prevalent...well, don't get
    your hopes up. Hire someone with an engineering degree instead. They tend to
    have a better knowledge of what's in the box, and be able to think outside the
    box when required.

    my 2c.

    Elspeth.
     
    Elspeth Thorne, Jun 7, 2004
    #6
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