demise of sun.com

Discussion in 'Java' started by Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    Oracle has dropped dozens of links on sun.com without providing
    redirects to oracle.com. I am doing my best to find replacements, but
    I suspect a fair bit of material is going to disappear.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com
    The iPhone 5 is a low end Rolex.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2012
    #1
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  2. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 00:54:47 -0700, Roedy Green
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    someone who said :

    >Oracle has dropped dozens of links on sun.com without providing
    >redirects to oracle.com. I am doing my best to find replacements, but
    >I suspect a fair bit of material is going to disappear.


    all these links now just go to a generic Java page:

    http://developers.sun.com/jsenterprise/,
    http://developers.sun.com/mobility/midp/articles/bluetooth2/,
    http://developers.sun.com/mobility/midp/articles/wtoolkit/,
    http://developers.sun.com/portalserver/reference/techart/jsr168/,
    http://java.sun.com/applets/jdk/1.4/demo/applets/SortDemo/example1.html,
    http://java.sun.com/applets/jdk/1.4/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/blueprints/corej2eepatterns/Patterns/DataAccessObject.html,
    http://java.sun.com/blueprints/corej2eepatterns/Patterns/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/community/usergroups/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/Books/javaserverpages/cservletsjsp/chapter14.pdf,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/codesamples/liberty.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/collections/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/corba/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Database/JDBC20Intro/exercises/BLOBGet/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Database/JDBC20Intro/exercises/BLOBPut/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Database/JDBC20Intro/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Database/JDBC20Intro/JDBC20.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Database/JDBCShortCourse/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/GUI/AWTLayoutMgr/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/GUI/Swing1/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/JavaMail/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/JSPIntro/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Programming/JDCBook/appB.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Programming/JDCBook/conpool.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Programming/JDCBook/jni.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/protocolhandlers/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/rmi/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Security/Fundamentals/abstract.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Security/Fundamentals/magercises/ClassLoader/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/Servlets/Fundamentals/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/techDocs/hi/repository/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/GUI/AWTLayoutMgr/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Interviews/Bollella_qa.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Intl/HTTPCharset/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2EE/connectorclient/resourceadapter.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2EE/patterns/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/Desktop/headless/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/J2SE/jconsole.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javaserverpages/faster/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Media/imagestrategies/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Networking/classloaders/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Programming/serialization/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Programming/sprintf/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/WebServices/fastWS/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/WebServices/Forte4Java/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/xml/WebAppDev3/,
    http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/xml/webservices/,
    http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jni/,
    http://java.sun.com/docs/glossary.html,
    http://java.sun.com/docs/hotspot/gc1.4.2/,
    http://java.sun.com/docs/hotspot/gc1.4.2/faq.html,
    http://java.sun.com/docs/searchabledocs.html,
    http://java.sun.com/docs/white/langenv/Simple.doc2.html,
    http://java.sun.com/j2ee/connector/,
    http://java.sun.com/j2ee/tutorial/1_3-fcs/doc/EJBConcepts5.html,
    http://java.sun.com/j2ee/tutorial/1_3-fcs/doc/WCC3.html,
    http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/pdf/serial-spec.pdf,
    http://java.sun.com/j2se/codenames.html,
    http://java.sun.com/j2se/javadoc/mifdoclet/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/j2se/versioning_naming.html,
    http://java.sun.com/javase/faqs.jsp,
    http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/desktop/,
    http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/desktop/articles.jsp,
    http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/desktop/javawebstart/download-spec.html,
    http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/desktop/media/,
    http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/desktop/printing/,
    http://java.sun.com/performance/jvmstat/faq.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/cldc/,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jain/,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jain/api_specs.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jain/certification.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jain/certprod_table.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jain/SIP-and-Java.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/2D/index.jsp,
    http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/downloads/download-iio-1_0_01.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/forDevelopers/jaifaq.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/sound/reference/api/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/sound/samples/JavaSoundDemo/,
    http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/speech/forDevelopers/jsapifaq.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/javacomm/reference/faqs/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/javamail/Third_Party.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jdk/faq/jni-j2sdk-faq.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jdk/faq/jnifaq-old.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jdk/faq/jnifaq.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jdmk/index.jsp,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/ChristmasTree/,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/javaOne2001/1315/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/merlin/2d.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/painting/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/sce/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/tablelayout/,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/threads/threads1.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/threads/threads2.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/threads/threads3.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/sightings/,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/special_report/kestrel/keybindings.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/tech_topics/jlist_1/jlist.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jimi/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/at/book/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/Appendix.C.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/Appendix.C2.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/HIG.Dialogs3.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/HIG.Visual2.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/index.html,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jts/jts-spec0_95.pdf,
    http://java.sun.com/products/jtwi/,
    http://java.sun.com/products/personalprofile/index.jsp,
    http://java.sun.com/products/plugin/1.2/docs/nsobjsigning.html,
    http://java.sun.com/reference/faqs/, http://java.sun.com/remove.jsp,
    http://java.sun.com/webservices/downloads/webservicestutorial.html,

    I have left out the ones I have researched replacements for. In many
    case the old document is gone, and replaced my a number of new
    documents.

    It is a common thing for a webmaster to reorganise a website. The
    catch is the links into that website then stop working. Ideally the
    webmaster should set up permanent redirects from the old URL to the
    new to inform everyone of where their old pages went and to keep the
    old links working. However, companies such as Oracle do not do this.
    They prefer to force the hundreds of websites that link into them to
    individually research the links with Google to find the new ones or
    delete them. Obviously the total amount of work is thousands of times
    greater, but they don't care. It is not them doing the work, it is the
    companies who send them business. Mindless next-quarter capitalism
    demands this sort of behaviour.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com
    The iPhone 5 is a low end Rolex.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 15, 2012
    #2
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  3. Roedy Green

    Mark Guest

    On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 08:27:44 -0700, Roedy Green
    <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 00:54:47 -0700, Roedy Green
    ><> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    >someone who said :
    >
    >>Oracle has dropped dozens of links on sun.com without providing
    >>redirects to oracle.com. I am doing my best to find replacements, but
    >>I suspect a fair bit of material is going to disappear.

    >
    >all these links now just go to a generic Java page:


    -snip-

    >It is a common thing for a webmaster to reorganise a website. The
    >catch is the links into that website then stop working. Ideally the
    >webmaster should set up permanent redirects from the old URL to the
    >new to inform everyone of where their old pages went and to keep the
    >old links working. However, companies such as Oracle do not do this.
    >They prefer to force the hundreds of websites that link into them to
    >individually research the links with Google to find the new ones or
    >delete them. Obviously the total amount of work is thousands of times
    >greater, but they don't care. It is not them doing the work, it is the
    >companies who send them business. Mindless next-quarter capitalism
    >demands this sort of behaviour.


    This is particularly annoying when you search for a problem and find a
    'solution' in a forum, which is just a link to a now nonexistent web
    page.
    --
    (\__/) M.
    (='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
    (")_(") is he still wrong?
     
    Mark, Sep 17, 2012
    #3
  4. In article <>,
    Mark <> wrote:

    > This is particularly annoying when you search for a problem and find
    > a 'solution' in a forum, which is just a link to a now nonexistent
    > web page.


    And how! As a concrete example, I frequently cite _A Swing Architecture
    Overview_ formerly here:

    <http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/architecture/>

    Now here:

    <http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/architecture-142923.html>

    Note how the (now missing) embedded images still refer to the old site.

    They (eventually) normalized the API documentation into a convenient
    scheme:

    <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/index.html>
    <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/index.html>
    Etc.

    I can only hope for the best, while preparing for the worst.

    --
    John B. Matthews
    trashgod at gmail dot com
    <http://sites.google.com/site/drjohnbmatthews>
     
    John B. Matthews, Sep 17, 2012
    #4
  5. Roedy Green

    Daniel Pitts Guest

    On 9/17/12 3:51 AM, John B. Matthews wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Mark <> wrote:
    >
    >> This is particularly annoying when you search for a problem and find
    >> a 'solution' in a forum, which is just a link to a now nonexistent
    >> web page.

    >
    > And how! As a concrete example, I frequently cite _A Swing Architecture
    > Overview_ formerly here:
    >
    > <http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/articles/architecture/>
    >
    > Now here:
    >
    > <http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/architecture-142923.html>
    >
    > Note how the (now missing) embedded images still refer to the old site.
    >
    > They (eventually) normalized the API documentation into a convenient
    > scheme:
    >
    > <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/index.html>
    > <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/index.html>
    > Etc.

    I really wish they had normalized it to
    /javase/latest/docs/api/index.html, with
    /javase/archive/6/docs/api/index.html for the "older" versions. Google
    still links to 1.4 in some cases, and rarely to 7 specifically.
    >
    > I can only hope for the best, while preparing for the worst.
    >
     
    Daniel Pitts, Sep 17, 2012
    #5
  6. On 9/17/2012 1:40 PM, Daniel Pitts wrote:
    > On 9/17/12 3:51 AM, John B. Matthews wrote:
    >> They (eventually) normalized the API documentation into a convenient
    >> scheme:
    >>
    >> <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/index.html>
    >> <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/index.html>
    >> Etc.

    > I really wish they had normalized it to
    > /javase/latest/docs/api/index.html, with
    > /javase/archive/6/docs/api/index.html for the "older" versions. Google
    > still links to 1.4 in some cases, and rarely to 7 specifically.


    It often helps to specify the Java version in the Google search.

    java 7 java.util.scanner

    instead of:

    java.util.scanner

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, Sep 17, 2012
    #6
  7. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Sat, 15 Sep 2012 08:27:44 -0700, Roedy Green
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
    someone who said :

    >all these links now just go to a generic Java page:


    This is quite tedious work finding where these links went. In most
    cases the original essay has been dropped. I have had to find other
    materials to replace it.

    There is a similar problem with RFCs. Old ones don't have a link to
    the new replacement.

    The author of a deleted document could most easily set up a forward
    link faster than even one user could research it.
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products http://mindprod.com
    The iPhone 5 is a low end Rolex.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 18, 2012
    #7
  8. Roedy Green

    Lew Guest

    Martin Gregorie wrote:
    > Roedy Green wrote:
    >> There is a similar problem with RFCs. Old ones don't have a link to the
    >> new replacement.
    >>

    >
    > ...but there's a known solution for RFCs - the RFC search engine
    > http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html
    >
    > This takes an RFC number or a word/phrase in the RFC title and digs out
    > the referenced RFC plus a chain linked forward and backward to show all
    > the RFCs your taget obsoleted as well as those that make it obsolete.
    >
    >> The author of a deleted document could most easily set up a forward link
    >> faster than even one user could research it.


    Martin disproves this.

    Google disproves this.

    > Sure, but using the search engine is easier for both author and
    > researchers.
    >
    > ... I now return you to the scheduled program.


    Good search tools simulate intelligence better than cognitive
    algorithms do, under many circumstances.

    http://xkcd.com/903/

    Suppose you write seventeen articles a year online, "you" being
    any arbitrary entity such as you personally, a committee, a reporting
    system or whatnot. Say the articles have a half-life of interval until
    a link needs updating, along the lines that sun.com and RFC articles do.

    You would need to review your own documents over years to keep them
    up to date. This is what Oracle has done. Given finite resources,
    there is a limit to how many articles you can update per year, and
    still maintain your output of new articles. It stands to reason that
    some articles will not be updated at any given time.

    Regardless of the actual numbers, it's clear that link maintenance
    will require increasing energy over time, as the mass of articles grows.

    Consider instead a search solution along the lines Martin mentioned
    for RFCs. Links can still be maintained, according to a triage system
    of need and benefit. But they need not be, given a search system that
    elicits the same connections on demand.

    The search system complexity and deficiencies are completely independent
    of the article base, and presumably bounded. Instead of an increasing
    energy investment in link maintenance, lacking opportunity for innovation,
    you have steady energy investment in search enhancement, with ample
    opportunity for innovation and increased value.

    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, Sep 18, 2012
    #8
  9. Tue, 18 Sep 2012 04:27:39 -0700, /Roedy Green/:

    > There is a similar problem with RFCs. Old ones don't have a link to
    > the new replacement.


    There's a nifty tool at ietf.org which allows viewing RFC documents
    using HTML markup:

    http://tools.ietf.org/html/

    The HTML version adds a header with 'Obsoleted by' and 'Updated by'
    links (and other useful information), for example:

    http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc822

    In my Mozilla browser I've setup a keyword bookmark [1] like:

    Location: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc%s
    Keyword: rfc

    Therefore typing "rfc 822" (or select/copy, or drag-n-drop) into the
    "Address" field of the browser opens the corresponding RFC document
    HTML version very conveniently for me.

    [1]
    <http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-search-from-address-bar>,
    <http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_keyword_searches>,
    <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Bookmark_Keywords>,
    <http://www-archive.mozilla.org/docs/end-user/keywords.html>

    --
    Stanimir
     
    Stanimir Stamenkov, Sep 18, 2012
    #9
  10. Hi!

    Lew wrote:
    > Instead of an increasing
    > energy investment in link maintenance, lacking opportunity for innovation,
    > you have steady energy investment in search enhancement, with ample
    > opportunity for innovation and increased value.


    They could use a database such as DB2 (or even Oracle) ;-) to maintain all
    links in their pages (including the history). So if you want to move,
    remove or replace a document you will see all links that need to be updated.

    Additionally you could provide a search form to find replacement links for
    broken links (from the history).

    An initial scan would process all pages and search for external and internal
    links and populate some tables from that.

    Regards

    Gunter in Orlando, Fl
     
    Gunter Herrmann, Sep 19, 2012
    #10
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