Determine user's default email client

M

Mike

Is there a way to determine what a user's default email client is? I
read a post from 3 years ago that said no. I guess I'm hoping
something has come along since then.
 
M

Michael Winter

Is there a way to determine what a user's default email client is? I
read a post from 3 years ago that said no. I guess I'm hoping something
has come along since then.

You might be able to through ActiveX, but as I stay clear of that, I
couldn't say. Irrespective of that, in most cases the answer is still no.
I can't say of what use it would be, anyway.

Mike
 
M

Michael Winter

Hi tech stuff.

// requires 'wetware' plug-in, sold separately
window.prompt("What is your email client?");

Sorry to nit-pick, but that's not necessarily the same thing, is it. A
user might say that their mail client is the Hotmail Web interface, yet
their system's configured client is Mozilla. Similarly, a user might use
Opera's built-in M2 client for their mail, but haven't had it override OE
on a Windows installation.

Mike
 
R

Richard Cornford

Mike said:
Is there a way to determine what a user's default email client is?

In an Internet/standard security context the answer is no. (and there
may be no default e-mail client, and if there is the browser may not
know about it).

In a lax security context, running exclusively Windows IE, then you can
probably pull the information from the registry with WSH, and also know
enough about the users to know that their e-mail client will exist and
be properly set-up. Though you would probably also already know which it
was in that context.
I read a post from 3 years ago that said no.
I guess I'm hoping something has come along since then.

What has come along is ever tighter security (and more user veto) in web
browsers in response to ever more aggressive and abusive web coding.

Richard.
 
F

Fred Oz

Michael Winter wrote:
[snip]
Sorry to nit-pick, but that's not necessarily the same thing, is it. A

I'll go one better, 'wetware' isn't sold (not in my part of the world
anyway), it's conceived ;-)

Fred.
 
M

Michael Winter

[snip]
(rolls eyes dramatically) Never let technical details
get in the way of a good story, Mike!

Didn't I say a few days ago that I deserved to be labelled pedantic. :D
[ Besides, I hear the wetware plug-in does not have a very high
usage rate amongst your average net surfers in any case. Something
about 'pop-up thoughts' and the possibility of spyware... ]

:)

Mike
 
D

David Dorward

Michael said:
Sorry to nit-pick, but that's not necessarily the same thing, is it. A
user might say that their mail client is the Hotmail Web interface, yet
their system's configured client is Mozilla.

The question was about the user's default, not the system default :)
 
A

Andrew DeFaria

Robert said:
For the internet, it is best to avoid sending email through an email
client.

I disagree.
Instead, use a form to send the data to a server and have the server
send the email.

I hate form based email and prefer to use the full capabilities of my
email client.
 
R

Randy Webb

Andrew said:
I disagree.

You have that right. Even when its been shown to be solid advice not to
use mailto: on an internet site.
I hate form based email and prefer to use the full capabilities of my
email client.

And that is your choice. But given an internet audience, that can not be
reasonably assumed. But to be fair, I will give you a chance to back up
your beliefs. Fair enough?

If you can provide script or HTML that can successfully send an email
(through an email client) in my IE6, I will start endorsing mailto:.
Until then, its a *very very bad idea* for an internet site.

My IE6 SP2 Configuration:

No email client associated.
Email in IE6 SP2 is sent via a Flash App from my ISP.

Now, how do you propose to navigate to my login page, log me in, fill
out that Flash form, then send it?
 
P

Philip Ronan

If you can provide script or HTML that can successfully send an email
(through an email client) in my IE6, I will start endorsing mailto:.
Until then, its a *very very bad idea* for an internet site.

Some people (myself included) find web forms more of a hassle than ordinary
mailto links.

When I send an email from my regular email client, it fills in my name and
email address automatically. It checks my spelling. It retains a copy of
every email I send. It attaches my default signature containing my website
URL, phone number and other such information that recipients might find
useful. It also allows me to add other headers such as CC, BCC, Priority.

I can't do any of that with a web form.

But I also realize that some people are unable to use mailto: links
successfully. The obvious answer is to offer both alternatives to your
visitors.

That's my 2p worth, anyhow.

Phil
 
M

Michael Winter

[Mike said:
[snip]

The question was about the user's default, not the system default :)

I suppose you could read it that way, but I'd associate the phrase
"default client" with the client that would be invoked when performing
some kind of mail action. That is, the system default.

Mike
 
A

Andrew DeFaria

Randy said:
You have that right. Even when its been shown to be solid advice not
to use mailto: on an internet site.

I've seen no such solid advice as you say exists.
And that is your choice. But given an internet audience, that can not
be reasonably assumed.

Sure it can. You mean you can not assume that somebody using a browser
is also using and email client?!? I bet more people use email than browsers.
But to be fair, I will give you a chance to back up your beliefs. Fair
enough?

If you can provide script or HTML that can successfully send an email
(through an email client) in my IE6, I will start endorsing mailto:.
Until then, its a *very very bad idea* for an internet site.

My IE6 SP2 Configuration:

No email client associated.
Email in IE6 SP2 is sent via a Flash App from my ISP.

Now, how do you propose to navigate to my login page, log me in, fill
out that Flash form, then send it?

Why do you have no email client configured? That's extremely odd. You
say that all you haven is IE6 and you do all of your email through
that?!? You're user agent here says Mozilla/5.0. Last I checked Mozilla
not only does email (quite well mind you) but installs such that the
default email client is indeed configured. Therefore mailto links work.

Or have you purposely turned that off such that you don't use Mozilla to
do email (but do use it to respond to this newsgroup?!?). If you have
purposely turned it off because you deliberately wish to disable it then
you are also explicitly saying that you don't want mailto links to work.
If that be the case then there should be no surprise to you that they don't.

Also, you are assuming that a user has not done the reverse and decided
that emailing is OK but browsing is wrong and had disabled his browser,
in which case browser based form email will not work.

Look, mailto links are exactly for sending email and that's why the
named it that.
 
A

Andrew DeFaria

Philip said:
Some people (myself included) find web forms more of a hassle than
ordinary mailto links.

When I send an email from my regular email client, it fills in my name
and email address automatically. It checks my spelling. It retains a
copy of every email I send. It attaches my default signature
containing my website URL, phone number and other such information
that recipients might find useful. It also allows me to add other
headers such as CC, BCC, Priority.

I can't do any of that with a web form.

Exactly. Also, you often cannot see the sending address on a form. Now a
lot of companies use that to hide it so that you can't email them
repeatedly should they fail to respond (well you could script up
something to constantly hit their web site but talk about major hassle).
I don't that either. Look I tell you who I am and I expect the same
courtesy from people I communicate with, be it by phone, in person,
letter or email.
But I also realize that some people are unable to use mailto: links
successfully.

Which people might these be? Why not take the tack of getting them to be
able to successfully use their email clients?
 
R

Randy Webb

Andrew said:
I've seen no such solid advice as you say exists.

http://www.isolani.co.uk/articles/mailto.html

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=mailto+broken&meta=group=comp.lang.javascript

might be interesting reading.
Sure it can. You mean you can not assume that somebody using a browser
is also using and email client?!? I bet more people use email than
browsers.

Yes, it means I can not assume that a browser has a default email client
associated with it. IE6 on WinXP - straight out of the box - has NO
email client associated with it. *none*. Every time I click a mailto:
link in IE, it asks me if I want to install Outlook Express and
associate it. Sorry, I would rather have a root canal done through my
rectum than install the POS. And I get that effect because the unknowing
"web guru" thinks its the "best way" to send an email. Its not.

Why do you have no email client configured? That's extremely odd. You
say that all you haven is IE6 and you do all of your email through
that?!? You're user agent here says Mozilla/5.0. Last I checked Mozilla
not only does email (quite well mind you) but installs such that the
default email client is indeed configured. Therefore mailto links work.

My user agent for news is indeed Mozilla. I use it strictly for the News
Agent and Browsing, *not* email. But granted, its probably because I
have never had the time, nor inclination, to sit and go through the
setup, learn all its vulnerabilities, how to fix them, and then use it.

But when I installed Mozilla, it did *not* configure the email section.
I stopped it because when I installed it, my email was configured
through a web-based application (via Flash) that is used by Comcast
Cable. In fact, the *only* way for me to send email from that address is
through that application. It can't even be configured for Mozilla (not
that I want to).

But you still have not addressed the question. How do you propose to
write a link that when clicked will open the Comcast site, log me in,
and open the compose mail flash app, and then fill it out?

Also, I didn't say thats all I have. I was giving my IE6 configuration,
for you to explain to me how you intend for a mailto: link to work in
that configuration.

If you want, I can also give you the configuration of the PC's on the
intranet that I work on all day. Every one of them is running Windows XP
(some have SP2, some don't), but not a single one has an email client
installed.
Or have you purposely turned that off such that you don't use Mozilla to
do email (but do use it to respond to this newsgroup?!?). If you have
purposely turned it off because you deliberately wish to disable it then
you are also explicitly saying that you don't want mailto links to work.

I am not "explicitly saying" anything, I am declining to setup more of a
browser combination that I have a need for. I didn't do it that way to
"break mailto links", I did it that way because its the way *I* wanted
it. Not the way some web guru thinks, or needs, it to be set up so
his/her unreliable mailto: links will work.
If that be the case then there should be no surprise to you that they
don't.

It didn't surprise me *before* set it up that way. But to be fair, I
will quote code on the MSDN site:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/networking/predefined/mailto.asp

<A HREF="mailto:[email protected]?
subject=Feedback&amp;
body=The%20InetSDK%20Site%20Is%20Superlative">
Click here to send feedback to the InetSDK.</A>

I can tell you, from testing, what that link does in AOL. Can you guess?
Also, you are assuming that a user has not done the reverse and decided
that emailing is OK but browsing is wrong and had disabled his browser,
in which case browser based form email will not work.

If they are using email and not browsing, that is there choice. I don't
really care. But mailto: on an internet site is *unreliable*. But, if
they have, how in the world do you think a mailto: link would work, on a
website, for someone that has disabled the browser??????
Look, mailto links are exactly for sending email and that's why the
named it that.

I never said that wasn't the intended purpose of a mailto: link, I said
"They do not work *reliably*" with "reliably" being the key word there.
 
P

Philip Ronan

Which people might these be? Why not take the tack of getting them to be
able to successfully use their email clients?

People who are using someone else's computer, or borrowing a terminal at the
local library (where there isn't any email software installed).

That kind of thing.
 
L

Lee

Philip Ronan said:
/bangs head against wall...

That article is about the pitfalls of declaring mailto URLs as the action
attribute of web forms.

It is not relevant to this thread.

Certainly it's relevant. All of the warnings about mailto in that
article apply to the "mailto:" protocol, regardless of whether it
appears in an ACTION attribute or an HREF attribute.
 
L

Lee

Andrew DeFaria said:
Why do you have no email client configured? That's extremely odd.

No it isn't.

I'm sitting in front of three computers.
I use all of them for browsing.
I only have an email client on one of them.

I also use a computer in a lab at the local University.
It has Mozilla installed, and even has an email client
configured, but all SMTP traffic is blocked.

I sometimes use the browser at the local library.
There is no email client on the machine.

I also use my PDA for browsing. It has an email client,
but the browser doesn't support the mailto: protocol.

Any one of these may be considered as "extremely odd",
but there are enough people with one or more of these
situations (or variations) that, taken together, it is
not extremely odd for a browser to have no email client.
 
A

Andrew DeFaria

Lee said:
Andrew DeFaria said:


No it isn't.

Yes it is.
I'm sitting in front of three computers.
I use all of them for browsing.
I only have an email client on one of them.

That's odd.
I also use a computer in a lab at the local University.
It has Mozilla installed, and even has an email client
configured, but all SMTP traffic is blocked.

That's similarly odd.
I sometimes use the browser at the local library.
There is no email client on the machine.

That's odd too.
I also use my PDA for browsing. It has an email client,
but the browser doesn't support the mailto: protocol.

Any one of these may be considered as "extremely odd",
but there are enough people with one or more of these
situations (or variations) that, taken together, it is
not extremely odd for a browser to have no email client.

Well it is for me.
 
R

Randy Webb

Philip said:
/bangs head against wall...

That article is about the pitfalls of declaring mailto URLs as the action
attribute of web forms.

It is not relevant to this thread.

Keep reading it, and it goes into the pitfalls of IE and OE. Yes, its
mostly about mailto in web forms, but it does touch on the other uses.
And granted, its not the one I was looking for (there is another, that I
can not find, that covers mailto: as an href).

Perhaps some day I may sit down, test it in different browsers, with
different parameters to mailto: and post the results. Not so much to
debunk mailto: but to show how it reacts in certain scenarios.
 

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