Developing Commercial Applications in Python

Discussion in 'Python' started by eeykay@gmail.com, Jan 3, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Hello All,
    I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
    is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
    good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
    clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
    any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
    Thanks for any help.
    eeykay
     
    , Jan 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. Craig Ringer Guest

    On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 19:00, wrote:
    > Hello All,
    > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
    > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
    > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
    > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
    > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?


    My understanding is that you're dead safe with Python its self, as AFAIK
    you can even bundle (possibly modified) the Python sourcecode into your
    application. You'd simply need to keep an eye on the licenses of any
    extensions you used, like ReportLab, PIL, mx, database interfaces,
    twisted, etc. Many are licensed under the same license as Python or an
    MIT-like license, but of course some Python extensions are not and you
    would need to consider that.

    --
    Craig Ringer
     
    Craig Ringer, Jan 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. It's me Guest

    Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software. See:
    http://www.pti-us.com/pti/news/index.cfm and search "2004 PSS/E User Group
    Meeting"

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello All,
    > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
    > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
    > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
    > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
    > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
    > Thanks for any help.
    > eeykay
    >
     
    It's me, Jan 3, 2005
    #3
  4. > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hello All,
    > > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
    > > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
    > > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
    > > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
    > > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
    > > Thanks for any help.
    > > eeykay
    > >

    "It's me" <> wrote in message
    news:mBeCd.5832$...
    > Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software. See:
    > http://www.pti-us.com/pti/news/index.cfm and search "2004 PSS/E User Group
    > Meeting"
    >


    Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure available
    (http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that the
    program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the GUI),
    and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very
    interesting stuff :)
     
    Richards Noah \(IFR LIT MET\), Jan 3, 2005
    #4
  5. It's me Guest

    "Richards Noah (IFR LIT MET)" <> wrote in message
    news:crbur8$edu$...
    >
    > Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure available
    > (http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that

    the
    > program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the

    GUI),
    > and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very
    > interesting stuff :)
    >
    >


    It was actually developed in Fortran some 35 years ago. Then migrated to
    F77. Then added a C/C++ layer to sit ontop. Then converted to API based.
    Then added a Python layer on top.

    The only thing unfortunate is that they went with MFC on the newest version.
    Yuck!
     
    It's me, Jan 3, 2005
    #5
  6. Aahz Guest

    In article <>,
    <> wrote:
    >
    >I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
    >is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
    >good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
    >clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
    >any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?


    Are you looking to embed Python as a scripting language or to write the
    software in Python?
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    "19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming,
    is not worth knowing." --Alan Perlis
     
    Aahz, Jan 3, 2005
    #6
  7. "It's me" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:zgCd.5867$...
    >
    > "Richards Noah (IFR LIT MET)" <> wrote in

    message
    > news:crbur8$edu$...
    > >
    > > Begging your pardon, but a better resource would be the brochure

    available
    > > (http://www.pti-us.com/PTI/company/brochures/PSSE.pdf). It appears that

    > the
    > > program was probably (originally) written in C/C++ (using MFC for the

    > GUI),
    > > and now employs Python for adding modules and scripting support. Very
    > > interesting stuff :)
    > >
    > >

    >
    > It was actually developed in Fortran some 35 years ago. Then migrated to
    > F77. Then added a C/C++ layer to sit ontop. Then converted to API

    based.
    > Then added a Python layer on top.
    >
    > The only thing unfortunate is that they went with MFC on the newest

    version.
    > Yuck!
    >


    Hahaha, sounds like a party to me. And they didn't even throw in a layer of
    Lisp for good effort? Too bad, if you ask me :)
     
    Richards Noah \(IFR LIT MET\), Jan 3, 2005
    #7
  8. Terry Reedy Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
    > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
    > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
    > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications.


    We are in a weird catch-22 type situation here. Because the license is so
    open, companies that use Python just use it. No payment, no curtesy
    registration, no verifiable trace unless they care to disclose (and most
    don't).

    The license could be paraphrased as "Don't sue us or do anything that would
    cause anyone else to sue us and we won't sue you." There is a posted
    request for thank you donations but not enough commercial users do so to
    even hire one full time programmer, let alone a lawyer (above the bare
    minimum required for PSF to legally function). The PSF is about as far
    from the RIAA and MPAA as possible.

    There are Python Success Stories at the Python site and elsewhere (try
    Google on the newsgroup. You could also agree to be responsible for any
    legal action initiated by the PSF not due to obvious malfeance, like trying
    to register a copyright on the Python source. Or you could suggest that
    they purchase a license with a donation to the PSF.

    Terry J. Reedy
     
    Terry Reedy, Jan 3, 2005
    #8
  9. It's me Guest

    Well, now that they are API based, they can easily add any script language
    they so wish through SWIG (www.swig.org).

    Maybe not LISP. SNOBOL would be the right thing to do. (*NOT*)


    "Richards Noah (IFR LIT MET)" <> wrote in message
    news:crc699$l24$...
    >
    >
    > > It was actually developed in Fortran some 35 years ago. Then migrated

    to
    > > F77. Then added a C/C++ layer to sit ontop. Then converted to API

    > based.
    > > Then added a Python layer on top.
    > >
    > > The only thing unfortunate is that they went with MFC on the newest

    > version.
    > > Yuck!
    > >

    >
    > Hahaha, sounds like a party to me. And they didn't even throw in a layer

    of
    > Lisp for good effort? Too bad, if you ask me :)
    >
    >
     
    It's me, Jan 3, 2005
    #9
  10. wrote:
    > Hello All,
    > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
    > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
    > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
    > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
    > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
    > Thanks for any help.
    > eeykay


    At CSB-System AG, we use Python extensively as embedded scripting
    language throughout the ERP system we develop (fields of application:
    system automation, GUI scripting, programmable user exits, reporting,
    data access/replication, autotests, and apart from that, everywhere we
    need something done fast ;-).

    I'm sure that its liberal license was among the main drivers to use it
    in the first place!

    --
    Vincent Wehren
     
    vincent wehren, Jan 3, 2005
    #10
  11. It's me wrote:
    > Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software.


    .... but the "Python Powered" logo is conspicuous by its
    absence from their site. Too bad that some commercial
    exploiters of Python don't advertise that fact more often.
    Every little bit helps!

    Steve
     
    Stephen Waterbury, Jan 3, 2005
    #11
  12. Roy Smith Guest

    Stephen Waterbury <> wrote:
    >> Shaw-PTI (www.pti-us.com) uses Python in their software.

    >
    >... but the "Python Powered" logo is conspicuous by its
    >absence from their site. Too bad that some commercial
    >exploiters of Python don't advertise that fact more often.


    Companies use all sorts of technologies to produce their products. I
    have no idea who Shaw-PTI is or what they do, but I'm sure they also
    use other languages, and web servers, and operating systems, and
    telephones and office furniture and pencil sharpeners. They're all
    just tools. You don't expect a company to waste space on their web
    site advertising which brand of pencil sharpener they use, so why
    would you expect they would do so for a programming language?

    Sometimes you see web sites with "Powered by IBM" or "Powered by Sun"
    or whatever. I'm sure behind every one of those is a deal cut with
    the supplier to promote their name in return for some favorable terms
    on a contract.
     
    Roy Smith, Jan 3, 2005
    #12
  13. Steve Holden Guest

    wrote:

    > Hello All,
    > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
    > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
    > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
    > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
    > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
    > Thanks for any help.
    > eeykay
    >

    No. The Python license explicitly allows you to distribute derived works
    (i.e. Python applications including the standard compiler, or modified
    versions of the compiler) without obliging you to disclose the source
    code in the way that the GPL does.

    The only obligation the license places on you are

    a) You must retain the original copyright notices and
    b) If you *do* distribute modified versions, you must include a brief
    description of your modifications.

    I believe the Python License Version 2, as found at

    http://www.python.org/moin/PythonSoftwareFoundationLicenseV2Easy

    is about as simple as a license can get, yet still the Foundation
    receives inquiries from people whose lawyers are unconvinced there are
    no hidden problems. Of course, IANAL, so the lawyers could be right, but
    at least the INTENT is pretty obvious.

    Also beware if you plan to use "The Python License" for your own
    software, and read

    http://www.python.org/moin/PythonSoftwareFoundationLicenseFaq

    if you are thinking of doing so. Of course, there are many contributions
    which were licensed to the Foundation for inclusion in the distribution.
    The Foundation is currently in the process of regularizing the "license
    stack" thus created, by negotiating with individual contributors to
    ensure that a compatible license is initially granted to the PSF.

    Nothing is currently believed to prohibit the Foundation from licensing
    current releases on the terms that it does, but I should include a
    disclaimer that this is *not* an official statement from the
    Foundation, rather an explanation from one of its directors (an
    all-too-fallible human being) about what's lately been happening in the
    licensing space.

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Steve Holden http://www.holdenweb.com/
    Python Web Programming http://pydish.holdenweb.com/
    Holden Web LLC +1 703 861 4237 +1 800 494 3119
     
    Steve Holden, Jan 3, 2005
    #13
  14. wrote:

    > Hello All,
    > I am trying to convince my client to use Python in his new product. He
    > is worried about the license issues. Can somebody there to point me any
    > good commercial applications developed using python ?. The licence
    > clearly says Python can be used for commercial applications. Is there
    > any other implications like that of GPL to make the source open ?
    > Thanks for any help.
    > eeykay

    Troika games use Python in their games. It seems you can even get the
    source .py files for Vampires: Bloodlines :)
     
    Christophe Cavalaria, Jan 3, 2005
    #14
  15. Mike Meyer Guest

    "It's me" <> writes:

    > Well, now that they are API based, they can easily add any script language
    > they so wish through SWIG (www.swig.org).
    >
    > Maybe not LISP. SNOBOL would be the right thing to do. (*NOT*)


    SWIG generates wrappers for GUILE, which is Scheme, which looks enough
    like LISP to fool most people. It's the GNU extensible embeddable
    language.

    <mike
    --
    Mike Meyer <> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
    Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
     
    Mike Meyer, Jan 3, 2005
    #15
  16. Nick Vargish Guest

    writes:

    > Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications
    > developed using python ?


    Python is used in several games, including Temple of Elemental Evil
    and the forthcoming Civilization 4. Humungous Games, which makes
    software for children, is also using Python. Sorry if games would give
    your boss the wrong impression...

    Most commercial software houses don't advertise details of their
    development platforms.

    Nick

    --
    # sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
    print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
     
    Nick Vargish, Jan 6, 2005
    #16
  17. Stephen Waterbury, Jan 6, 2005
    #17
  18. Duncan Booth Guest

    Nick Vargish wrote:

    > writes:
    >
    >> Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications
    >> developed using python ?

    >
    > Python is used in several games, including Temple of Elemental Evil
    > and the forthcoming Civilization 4. Humungous Games, which makes
    > software for children, is also using Python. Sorry if games would give
    > your boss the wrong impression...


    Also "Startrek Bridge Commander", and "Uru: Ages beyond Myst".
     
    Duncan Booth, Jan 6, 2005
    #18
  19. Steve Hughes Guest


    >>>Can somebody there to point me any good commercial applications
    >>>developed using python ?


    Yet another game but it's a huge one with a massive DB behind it.

    http://www.eve-online.com

    --
    Steve Hughes
     
    Steve Hughes, Jan 6, 2005
    #19
  20. Nick Coghlan Guest

    Nick Coghlan, Jan 7, 2005
    #20
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