Developing for Ruby on Windows?

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Tom Wardrop, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. Tom Wardrop

    Tom Wardrop Guest

    I've heard a lot of criticism about developing for Ruby on Windows, but
    am yet to see anyone elaborate on this. Can someone enlighten me on why
    developing for Ruby on Windows is considered to be painful?

    Cheers
    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
     
    Tom Wardrop, Sep 17, 2010
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Tom Wardrop

    Quintus Guest

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    Am 17.09.2010 10:53, schrieb Tom Wardrop:
    > I've heard a lot of criticism about developing for Ruby on Windows, but
    > am yet to see anyone elaborate on this. Can someone enlighten me on why
    > developing for Ruby on Windows is considered to be painful?
    >
    > Cheers


    My personal opinion about this is that developing on Windows is not as
    hard as it used to be since the Ruby Installer + DevKit have been
    released. However, Windows stays Windows, and the thing I personally
    most miss in Windows is the #fork method and the ability to create
    multi-process programs easily. When Ruby gets rid of the GIL sometime
    and Ruby's threads will run truly concurrent, I may not miss it anymore
    (Ruby 2.0, maybe?).
    Apart from that, I just dislike non-free (free as in freedom) operating
    systems ;-)

    Vale,
    Marvin
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
    Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

    iEYEARECAAYFAkyTPKkACgkQDYShvwAbcNl8JACfazDUahmRyLi9MGEBTsyG8zpC
    UwkAniD7xMFUnpv1psHCPL1ynTLQMg03
    =Z3gp
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
     
    Quintus, Sep 17, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. [Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

    There is quite a few reasons, the main one is that Ruby assumes a POSIX
    environment
    for general development, and this is worked around (usually successfully) on
    windows.

    But there are enough areas where it doesn't work that cause issues ad a
    general feeling
    of dissatisfaction.

    Note that this situation is changing considerably. JRuby has made serious
    development
    on windows for Ruby users possible for several years now, and the latest
    release of
    RubyInstaller has made dramatic changes to how Ruby works on Windows (in
    short it introduces
    the equivalent of a POSIX toolchain).

    There is a long history on this problem, but it is not as interesting as the
    positive recent
    developments that make Ruby on Windows a much more pleasant experience.

    On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Tom Wardrop <> wrote:

    > I've heard a lot of criticism about developing for Ruby on Windows, but
    > am yet to see anyone elaborate on this. Can someone enlighten me on why
    > developing for Ruby on Windows is considered to be painful?
    >
    > Cheers
    > --
    > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    >
    >



    --
    http://richardconroy.blogspot.com | http://twitter.com/RichardConroy
     
    Richard Conroy, Sep 17, 2010
    #3
  4. On 17/9/2010 6:02 PM, Quintus wrote:
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    >
    > Am 17.09.2010 10:53, schrieb Tom Wardrop:
    >> I've heard a lot of criticism about developing for Ruby on Windows, but
    >> am yet to see anyone elaborate on this. Can someone enlighten me on why
    >> developing for Ruby on Windows is considered to be painful?
    >>
    >> Cheers

    > My personal opinion about this is that developing on Windows is not as
    > hard as it used to be since the Ruby Installer + DevKit have been
    > released. However, Windows stays Windows, and the thing I personally
    > most miss in Windows is the #fork method and the ability to create
    > multi-process programs easily. When Ruby gets rid of the GIL sometime
    > and Ruby's threads will run truly concurrent, I may not miss it anymore
    > (Ruby 2.0, maybe?).
    > Apart from that, I just dislike non-free (free as in freedom) operating
    > systems ;-)


    Barring ideology, there are, in my opinion, two main annoyances in
    working with Windows..

    1. Some times, it can take a while to start the Ruby interpreter - and
    Ruby runs slowly. While an annoyance, most people don't deploy on
    Windows and a bit of extra time in starting a long(er) running program
    is fine for me.

    2. Some native gems fail to build and you need to find a way around it.
    Luis' work and the DevKit, etc. are changing this situation on a daily
    basis.. so, we will get there.

    Barring that, I haven't found any reason to avoid working on Windows
    using Ruby. Some of the things that I do require Windows - for example,
    I use Win32Ole to parse Word documents to put into a Radiant CMS site...
    so, I'm happy enough working there.

    Best Regards,
    Mohit.
    17/9/2010 | 6:11 PM.
     
    Mohit Sindhwani, Sep 17, 2010
    #4
  5. Tom Wardrop

    jonty Guest

    I totally agree with Richard - I am stuck with windows mostly as I got
    MS qualifications so I can possibly get a job in developing and my
    machine doesn't have sufficient space for a duel boot at the minute (
    catch 22 - job = money = new machine!).

    Sooo... using the latest windows installers results in a generally
    pleasurable ruby experience. Nearly everything works well on windows and
    I can develop with ruby to my hearts content. Occasionally a gem appears
    that will not work on windows - I think this is due to a lack of thought
    or even disregard rather than it can't be done, e.g. rvm (switch
    between ruby versions)

    I use ruby 1.8.6 or 1.8.7 (waiting for some of my favourite gems to
    update for 1.9) and I do have 1.9.1 which I am experimenting with.
    Windows is XP and I use notepad++ or scite. Scite is excellent for
    small programs and learning, why use anything else?

    Have fun
     
    jonty, Sep 17, 2010
    #5
  6. On 17/09/10 11:53 , Tom Wardrop wrote:
    > I've heard a lot of criticism about developing for Ruby on Windows, but
    > am yet to see anyone elaborate on this. Can someone enlighten me on why
    > developing for Ruby on Windows is considered to be painful?
    >
    > Cheers

    The bulk of my development work is on Windows and it has been since I
    started using Ruby (way back in the 1.6 days).
    The OneClick installer was a blessing but had the known problems, the
    new RubyInstaller is even better and the devkit makes life a lot easier.
    The win32-* gems cover most of what people would need with windows
    specific stuff.
    The missing fork() and speed are the main concerns. The Ruby interpreter
    on Windows performs abominably - so much so that when I have to work on
    large sets of data I do the work on the Mac.
    And all the web servers (webrick, mongrel, thin) perform much better on
    any other platform.
    Having said that 95% of the time performance is good enough and the ease
    of expression in Ruby makes up for any windows specific annoyances.
    Cheers,
    V.-

    --
    http://www.ampelofilosofies.gr
     
    Vassilis Rizopoulos, Sep 17, 2010
    #6
  7. Much of the criticism, I believe, comes from cultural rather than
    technical concerns. Most of the movers-and-shakers in the Ruby
    community are using either *nix or OS X and therefore most of the
    blogs, articles, tutorials and books come written through that prism
    (actually, earlier works were much better in this regard). This can
    make it tricky for newcomers to learn Ruby if they're on Windows and
    it cements a perception that Ruby on Windows is harder than it should
    be, or doesn't work as well. Take the Rails Tutorial for example -
    it's very POSIX centric and even advises using Cygwin rather than
    native Windows. It's an awesome tutorial, but it would leave the
    curious Windows-using dabbler with a sense that Rails, Ruby, Git and
    the rest are really designed for Unix and unsatisfactory, hacky
    afterthoughts on Windows. The result: people either switch, or turn
    away. I know Rails !=3D Ruby, but many (perhaps most) newcomers are
    introduced to Ruby through Rails, so I believe this is a good example.

    The thing is, Ruby on Windows needn't be a poor experience - with the
    right tools and advice, and good quality, disciplined cross-platform
    programming on the part of Ruby developers, the beauty of Ruby can be
    enjoyed just as well on Windows as it can on OS X or *nix. The Python
    community seems to be ahead of Ruby on this point. I believe what we
    need are more developers dedicated to improving the experience on
    Windows (the RubyInstaller team being a fantastic example) and also a
    more concious welcoming of Windows users into the community (as in,
    less of the mocking of Windows and Windows users in general - yeah, I
    know, boo-hoo, violins, etc. - but for a newcomer, it's not the best
    experience to feel like you're some sort of pariah) Now, we all need
    to have a sense of humour and have to be able to take a bit of
    ribbing, but the joke is kind of old and stale now, and things have
    improved tremendously in recent months on Windows, and, well, we're
    all just trying to get some work done, no? Can't we all just be
    friends, dammit? ;-) But if we can continue this trend of making
    Windows feel less of a hostile environment for Ruby, then I'm sure
    more Windows developers will be attracted and therefore will pour more
    resources into improving Ruby on Windows. So, keep up the good work
    and less of the negative stuff, in other words. :)

    (btw, this particular community is actually very welcoming and always
    has been; my mild critique is more aimed at the high-profile bloggers,
    developers and pundits, particularly in the Rails community.)

    Charles
    --
    Charles Roper
    http://twitter.com/charlesroper

    On 17 September 2010 11:12, Mohit Sindhwani <> wrote:
    > =C2=A0On 17/9/2010 6:02 PM, Quintus wrote:
    >>
    >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    >> Hash: SHA1
    >>
    >> Am 17.09.2010 10:53, schrieb Tom Wardrop:
    >>>
    >>> I've heard a lot of criticism about developing for Ruby on Windows, but
    >>> am yet to see anyone elaborate on this. Can someone enlighten me on why
    >>> developing for Ruby on Windows is considered to be painful?
    >>>
    >>> Cheers

    >>
    >> My personal opinion about this is that developing on Windows is not as
    >> hard as it used to be since the Ruby Installer + DevKit have been
    >> released. However, Windows stays Windows, and the thing I personally
    >> most miss in Windows is the #fork method and the ability to create
    >> multi-process programs easily. When Ruby gets rid of the GIL sometime
    >> and Ruby's threads will run truly concurrent, I may not miss it anymore
    >> (Ruby 2.0, maybe?).
    >> Apart from that, I just dislike non-free (free as in freedom) operating
    >> systems ;-)

    >
    > Barring ideology, there are, in my opinion, two main annoyances in workin=

    g
    > with Windows..
    >
    > 1. Some times, it can take a while to start the Ruby interpreter - and Ru=

    by
    > runs slowly. =C2=A0While an annoyance, most people don't deploy on Window=

    s and a
    > bit of extra time in starting a long(er) running program is fine for me.
    >
    > 2. Some native gems fail to build and you need to find a way around it.
    > =C2=A0Luis' work and the DevKit, etc. are changing this situation on a da=

    ily
    > basis.. so, we will get there.
    >
    > Barring that, I haven't found any reason to avoid working on Windows usin=

    g
    > Ruby. =C2=A0Some of the things that I do require Windows - for example, I=

    use
    > Win32Ole to parse Word documents to put into a Radiant CMS site... so, I'=

    m
    > happy enough working there.
    >
    > Best Regards,
    > Mohit.
    > 17/9/2010 | 6:11 PM.
    >
    >
    >
     
    Charles Roper, Sep 17, 2010
    #7
  8. On 17 September 2010 11:50, jonty <> wrote:
    > Occasionally a gem appears that will not work on windows - I think this i=

    s
    > due to a lack of thought or even disregard rather than =C2=A0it can't be =

    done,
    > e.g. rvm (switch between ruby versions)


    Check out Pik: http://rubyinstaller.org/add-ons/pik/

    Charles
     
    Charles Roper, Sep 17, 2010
    #8
  9. Tom Wardrop

    Roger Pack Guest

    I've heard a lot of criticism about developing for Ruby on Windows, but
    > am yet to see anyone elaborate on this. Can someone enlighten me on why
    > developing for Ruby on Windows is considered to be painful?


    Basically because the startup time for rails is so terribly slow.
    Nothing else comes to mind.

    -r
    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
     
    Roger Pack, Sep 22, 2010
    #9
  10. Tom Wardrop

    jonty Guest

    Ahh, many thanks charles - I hadn't spotted pik yet, looks great I
    will try it today!
     
    jonty, Sep 23, 2010
    #10
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Irena
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    334
  2. John Owens
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    341
    Larry I Smith
    Aug 11, 2005
  3. Hillbilly
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    358
    Hillbilly
    Apr 21, 2009
  4. Jesse Houwing
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    366
    Hillbilly
    Apr 21, 2009
  5. Shilo Ayalon
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    314
    Jonathan Hudson
    Feb 25, 2009
Loading...

Share This Page