dh, the daemon helper 2009-09-11

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by John Kelly, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. John Kelly

    John Kelly Guest

    John Kelly, Sep 12, 2009
    #1
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  2. John Kelly

    Seebs Guest

    Re: dh, the buggy daemon helper

    On 2009-09-12, John Kelly <> wrote:
    > I fixed dh to prevent symlink attacks.


    Which is to say that it really is very buggy, and still has fundamental design
    flaws.

    > I don't have time for the ng trolls;


    No trolls here, just experienced programmers familiar with the field who
    have observed that:

    1. You are spamming -- unambiguously, given the post to comp.lang.ruby.
    2. Your program is crap.

    > if you have concerns, email me.


    Why? You consistently ignore and disregard criticism of your posting habits,
    when it comes from experienced experts in the field. Your program looks like
    a first-year CS project, complete with the part where it's a solution to a
    problem already solved so often and so much better that there is no point in
    it beyond the learning exercise.

    -s
    --
    Copyright 2009, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach /
    http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
     
    Seebs, Sep 12, 2009
    #2
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  3. John Kelly

    Seebs Guest

    Re: dh, the buggy daemon helper

    On 2009-09-14, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    > I am curious to know what you made of my suggested improvements, but
    > not curious enough to email you about it. If you think Seebs is a
    > troll, you don't know Seebs very well.


    To be fair, I certainly have had a great deal of fun in epic newsgroup
    trolling festivals, such as my attempt to convince people that a solar
    eclipse is when the sun passes between the earth and the moon. :)

    In this case, though, no trolling. I just think the guy's ineducable.

    The corrections about topicality were quite correct, and Kelly's
    excuses are implausible. If he were really picking groups based on
    implementation language, it could be taken as an honest mistake -- but
    when a casual search turns up announcements posted to groups like
    comp.lang.ruby, it becomes clear that there is no such honest mistake
    involved, but garden variety spam.

    His responses to criticism are precisely those which show someone who
    is willing to take only certain kinds of advice -- that which fundamentally
    supports his positive self-image, which is usually that least useful
    to him.

    The fact is, the program in question is... well, frankly, pointless. He's
    very actively fixing bugs that probably shouldn't have existed -- and for
    that matter, which might even not be bugs, but design choices. The thing
    is, he can't talk about that, because there's nothing to show that he's
    got any kind of sense of how to design a program. It's full of cargo-cult
    madness. Some of it's fairly carefully planned; some of it looks like it
    was thrown together by someone totally uninterested in understanding
    the environment.

    In short, it's exactly what you'd expect from someone who can't handle
    being told about newsgroup topics, and who insists on making up patently
    false excuses for why he's posting in a particular group.

    There's a lot of stuff here which could, conceivably, be interesting.
    Very little of it has anything to do with C; if we were in a Unix group,
    and someone posted this, I'd probably devote a longish post to discussion
    of some of the design decisions and tradeoffs. For C, there's not nearly
    as much; nearly all the functionality of this program is purely specific
    to Unix-like environments. What little I can say in a C context is that
    there are too many variables which are used in too many ways, and there's
    some very repetitive blocks of code which are probably incorrect.

    But, fundamentally, this is not a program that can be discussed coherently
    in terms of the C language. The C style is poor but not unbelievably so,
    but the substantive flaws are in the Unix-specific stuff, which just plain
    isn't topical here. Ninety percent of what I think this program does wrong,
    you could get wrong in exactly the same way using perl on Unix but couldn't
    do in C on Windows.

    -s
    --
    Copyright 2009, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach /
    http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
     
    Seebs, Sep 14, 2009
    #3
  4. John Kelly

    Seebs Guest

    Re: dh, the buggy daemon helper

    On 2009-09-14, Seebs <> wrote:
    > On 2009-09-14, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    >> I am curious to know what you made of my suggested improvements, but
    >> not curious enough to email you about it. If you think Seebs is a
    >> troll, you don't know Seebs very well.

    >
    > To be fair, I certainly have had a great deal of fun in epic newsgroup
    > trolling festivals, such as my attempt to convince people that a solar
    > eclipse is when the sun passes between the earth and the moon. :)
    >
    > In this case, though, no trolling. I just think the guy's ineducable.


    Gotta follow up to my own post to confirm this. Went googling again, and
    found that he's been beating this dead horse for over a year, arguing
    with people who gave him clear and well-formed criticisms. In particular,
    he apparently continues to preserve the name despite having been informed
    that it clashed with a previous, actually-useful, program which predated
    it by ages. His response ("I apologize to debhelper users, but I have no
    desire to change the name of daemon helper now.") is eerily familiar; he's
    simply got no capacity to consider or respect people who aren't him.

    In short, the sort of pervasive, committed, ineducability that explains the
    program's current state perfectly.

    -s
    --
    Copyright 2009, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach /
    http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!
     
    Seebs, Sep 14, 2009
    #4
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