Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA

[Clarence Blumstein]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

 

[Eric Sosman]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

Can't speak for others, but I wrote my early Java with an
ordinary code editor, one I was already familiar with. That way,
I could concentrate on learning Java rather than on learning how
to operate the IDE. YMMV.

 

[Lew]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

Opinions vary. An IDE can be both a blessing and a curse to the
student. It's a blessing because it lets you get productive earlier.
It's a curse because it hides some information and can leave you
wondering how and why things work. Or don't.

I suggest using an IDE sometimes and using only the command line
(including Ant) other times. Each will then illuminate the other and
you will grow up to be ambidextrous with respect to using an IDE or
not.

Frequently when I develop a project I maintain the Ant build.xml
manually and alternate between IDE builds and command-line builds to
ensure that both work equally well.

 

[Stefan Ram]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA?

No, when you are learning Java, I would never
dare to disturb you by suggesting an IDE!

 

[cr88192]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

if you are new to programming in general, an IDE can help, as they provide a
lot of little things which can be helpful.

but, for Java in particular, the IDE is not particularly important, and one
can easily write code in plain text editors if they want. it depends a lot
on personal preferences and experience.


as for myself, well, I didn't start out with Java (it didn't really exist
yet).
I used IDEs some (TurboC / BorlandC), but in those days it didn't help much
(glorified text editor...), and eventually I just ended up managing files
manually via the DOS-prompt (and using "MS Edit").

anymore, I typically just do coding (in general) via the mix of Notepad,
Explorer, and a command prompt (and typically GNU Make for building). not
that there is anything noble about this, only that this approach just better
suits my uses and personal experience (there are pros and cons to IDEs).

my projects are also largish and mixed language (and largely C), and I use
some amount of "custom tooling", which may also be a factor, ...

(there are no uniformly "better" options in all this, only endless numbers
of costs and benefits).


but, for learning, an IDE is likely to be somewhat helpful, as it provides a
lot of things which could be otherwise awkward to do by hand.


or such...

 

[markspace]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

Yes, I do. Learning to use an IDE is part of learning how to program.
There are lots of little time saving enhancements with an IDE that you
should learn, and those enhancements will help you learn faster as well
as be more productive later in your profession. It's win-win.

A few years ago I would have said "no, just use a text editor" like
several others here, but these days an IDE is so valuable that it should
be part of your basic learning. (A few years ago, you would have used
shell scripting too as part of your basic learning, because the shell
tools were so important to being productive as a programmer. My first
class at university for C was titled "C and the Unix Shell.")

Eventually, you should learn the command line tools, but learning the
command line tools (and Ant) is different than entering code, and the
latter is what you will be mostly doing as you learn. An IDE is the
best tool to help you enter code.

 

[David Segall]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

An emphatic yes! Your first step should be to compile and run the
usual "Hello World" application without using an IDE. After that an
IDE provides a tutor that looks over your shoulder as you write and
test your programs. I would suggest Netbeans instead of Eclipse as a
tutor. On the other hand, Eclipse and its derivatives are far more
popular than Netbeans so if you are looking for a job, Eclipse
experience may be more valuable.

 

[Tom Anderson]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA?

No. You have enough to learn without also having to master an IDE.

You should definitely have a good programmer's editor, though. On Windows,
Notepad2, Notepad++, or EditPad Lite. On OS X, TextWrangler. On unix with
GNOME, gedit. On unix with KDE, i have yet to find one. jEdit is in java,
so that will work on any platform.

Basically, what you want is a plain text editor that does auto-indentation
and line numbering (or at least a jump-to-line command). You'll go
completely mad without those.

On top of that, syntax highlighting is nice, structure awareness (so you
get an outline or a dropdown menu of the methods in a class which you can
jump to) is nice, fancy editing shortcuts (for things like deleting the
whole current line, moving the selected lines up or down in the file,
indenting or outdenting the selected lines, etc) are nice.

Things you don't want now are autocompletion (because you won't learn the
API), automated compilation (because you won't learn the compiler), and
any enforced notions of project setup (because you'll have to struggle
with it for ages before you can write a single line of code, and even when
you get it working, you won't learn how to set up a project).

because I'm about to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA?

Good luck.

Did you using IDE while/when are a beginner?

No.

tom

 

[Tom Anderson]

No, when you are learning Java, I would never
dare to disturb you by suggesting an IDE!

tom

 

[Tom Anderson]

anymore, I typically just do coding (in general) via the mix of Notepad,
Explorer, and a command prompt (and typically GNU Make for building).
not that there is anything noble about this, only that this approach
just better suits my uses and personal experience (there are pros and
cons to IDEs).

my projects are also largish and mixed language (and largely C), and I
use some amount of "custom tooling", which may also be a factor, ...

Oh, it's *all about* the custom tooling.

When i was younger, i used to maintain a store of useful classes and
functions, a sort of personal subroutine library i could apply to
different projects. As i got older, i stopped; i learned to be able to do
the things it could do using the standard library or easily available
third-party libraries, or just got to the point where i could whip them up
from scratch every time without difficulty. But now, what i have is a
growing collection of custom tooling - scripts for this, templates for
that, ant jobs for the other. I wonder if i'll outgrow that too, and if
so, what will come next?

tom

 

[Lew]

anymore, I typically just do coding (in general) via the mix of Notepad,

Notepad is very bad for Java programming because most extant versions
don't handle Unicode and they don't like cross-platform line endings.

Explorer, and a command prompt (and typically GNU Make for building). not

And Gnu make is useless for Java.

that there is anything noble about this, only that this approach just better
suits my uses and personal experience (there are pros and cons to IDEs).

I am a big fan of command-line project deployment, but those tools you
mention are not very useful for Java.

 

[Jim Janney]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you're preparing for
a job interview, using a text editor will force you to learn the kinds
of things that people are likely to ask you about. And if you're a
beginning programmer there's some value in learning how to do
everything by hand.

But if you're an experienced programmer who simply wants to get
productive in a new language, then an IDE is the better choice. As
careful examination of this message may indicate, I like to use GNU
Emacs for, well, just about everything, but I use Eclipse for Java
programming. Eclipse has a Java compiler built into it, which gives
it a deep knowledge of the code that Emacs simply can't match.
Learning to use the refactoring and code assists not only saves typing
but cuts down on silly mistakes. And there's really no good reason to
maintain import lists by hand.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

My recommendation is to spend the first months using just
an ordinary text editor and command line tools for building
and running.

That will give you a good understanding of how things
actually work.

Then when you know all that stuff, then switch to a
professional grade IDE (Eclipse and NetBeans are free)
and be more productive by letting that do some of the
boring work.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Notepad is very bad for Java programming because most extant versions
don't handle Unicode and they don't like cross-platform line endings.

Notepad has supported Unicode since at least Windows XP from 2002.

There are no such a thing as cross-platform line endings.

It is true that notepad only supports the Windows CR LF, which
means that it does not work when text files are moved as binary
files from *nix.

But instead of blaming notepad then people should transfer the
files correctly.

And Gnu make is useless for Java.

At least it does not provide any benefits that a script does
not, because the dependency stuff does not work with Java.

Arne

 

[Clarence Blumstein]

I wanna using IDE while I went to this site
http://eclipsetutorial.sourceforge.net/totalbeginner.html

 

[Mike Schilling]

No. You have enough to learn without also having to master an IDE.

You should definitely have a good programmer's editor, though. On
Windows, Notepad2, Notepad++, or EditPad Lite.o

Or gvim, which is my favorite when I'm not using an IDE. It doesn't number
lines [1], but does display the line number you're on, and does syntax
highlighting. It also has the full power of vi in addition to leting you
use the mouse.

1. That I know of, anyway.

 

[P. Lepin]

You should definitely have a good programmer's editor, though. On
Windows, Notepad2, Notepad++, or EditPad Lite.o

Or gvim, which is my favorite when I'm not using an IDE. It doesn't
number lines [1], but does display the line number you're on, and does
syntax highlighting.

1. That I know of, anyway.

:set number

gvim is a bit of nethack among the editors, in that it seems to have
everything, including the kitchen sink, if you're willing to look for it.

What really shocked me, though, is that it does have autocompletion. Now
that's just sick.

 

[Pitch]

Do you suggest me using IDE when I'm learning JAVA? because I'm about
to using Eclipse when I'm learning JAVA? Did you using IDE while/when
are a beginner?

Use an IDE and a tutorial. If you get stuck ask here. Plenty of people
will know beginner's stuff.

 

[RedGrittyBrick]

No. You have enough to learn without also having to master an IDE.

You should definitely have a good programmer's editor, though. On
Windows, Notepad2, Notepad++, or EditPad Lite. On OS X, TextWrangler. On
unix with GNOME, gedit. On unix with KDE, i have yet to find one. jEdit
is in java, so that will work on any platform.

If you expect to use more than one of those platforms it may be worth
learning an editor that is available for all those platforms.

I'm pretty sure both of the one-true-editor are available for all those
platforms, with and without GUI trappings.

 

[Tom Anderson]

Notepad has supported Unicode since at least Windows XP from 2002.

There are no such a thing as cross-platform line endings.

It is true that notepad only supports the Windows CR LF, which
means that it does not work when text files are moved as binary
files from *nix.

But instead of blaming notepad then people should transfer the
files correctly.

Rubbish. Should they unpack every jar they move across and see if it has
text files in, so they can convert them? Should they then have to
magically re-sign any sealed packages whose contents have changed?

What they should do is just use a text editor which copes with all three
line endings. Plenty do this.

tom