Documentation hiding

[Roedy Green]

Oracle has been pulling documentation off the Sun website and giving
it strange new URLs to make it hard to find the new docs.

e.g.
// used to be:
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/extra/regex/quant.html
// now:
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E17409_01/javase/tutorial/essential/regex/quant.html

The Guides seem to have disappeared. They used to be part of the JDK.

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

Oracle has been pulling documentation off the Sun website and giving
it strange new URLs to make it hard to find the new docs.

e.g.
// used to be:
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/extra/regex/quant.html
// now:
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E17409_01/javase/tutorial/essential/regex/quant.html

The Guides seem to have disappeared. They used to be part of the JDK.

I don't think they're doing it on purpose. They've always had a fairly
crappy website, so it's only fair that the Sun documentation also gets
the treatment.

AHS

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Oracle has been pulling documentation off the Sun website and giving
it strange new URLs to make it hard to find the new docs.

e.g.
// used to be:
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/extra/regex/quant.html
// now:
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E17409_01/javase/tutorial/essential/regex/quant.html

The Guides seem to have disappeared. They used to be part of the JDK.

The URL's should not matter much.

The reason behind the URL's are probably the use of some
portal/CMS system.

Obviously everything should be there, but I would expect
it to eventually be there - but when moving huge web sites
around, then a few things can be forgotten.

I suggest you inform the web master about the problem.

Arne

 

[Stefan Ram]

The URL's should not matter much.

Yes, but:

»Cool URIs Don't Change«

http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/uri

Now, suddenly thousands of link collections are partially
invalidated and many hours are spend to update links all
around the world without any additional benefit.

The reason behind the URL's are probably the use of some
portal/CMS system.

That should not be an excuse. After all, the software should
follow and implement the policies chosen by humans. Humans
should not instead follow and implement what their software
requires. A capable engineer should be able to implement any
wanted URI naming scheme with a CMS.

 

[Jeff Higgins]

Yes, but:

»Cool URIs Don't Change«

http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/uri

Multiple Choices
Now that is hilarious.

 

[Mike Schilling]

Oracle has been pulling documentation off the Sun website and giving
it strange new URLs to make it hard to find the new docs.

e.g.
// used to be:
http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/extra/regex/quant.html
// now:
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E17409_01/javase/tutorial/essential/regex/quant.html

The Java serialization specification, for instance, is now hidden at
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/.../docs/guide/serialization/spec/serialTOC.html .
I was able to find it only by using the obscure technique of googling for
Java serialization specification.

 

[Lew]

Roedy Green wrote...
Do you have *any* shred of evidence that that's the purpose?

The Java serialization specification, for instance, is now hidden at
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/.../docs/guide/serialization/spec/serialTOC.html
. I was able to find it only by using the obscure technique of googling
for Java serialization specification.

For months now, Oracle has warned us:
"Oracle is reviewing the Sun product roadmap and will provide guidance to
customers in accordance with Oracle's standard product communication policies.
Any resulting features and timing of release of such features as determined by
Oracle's review of roadmaps, are at the sole discretion of Oracle. All product
roadmap information, whether communicated by Sun Microsystems or by Oracle,
does not represent a commitment to deliver any material, code, or
functionality, and should not be relied upon in making purchasing decisions.
It is intended for information purposes only, and may not be incorporated into
any contract."

So what, we expected that meant Oracle was not going to rearrange the web site
in accordance with their standard product communication policies?

As for finding the serialization specification, you don't even need Google.
The third hit on the "search.sun.com" site itself, entering "serialization
specification" in the search box on http://java.sun.com/ itself, is
<http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/serialization/spec/serialTOC.html>
which, guess what? redirects to
<http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/.../docs/guide/serialization/spec/serialTOC.html>

Yeah, Oracle's trying reeeaaaal hard to hide the information when the old link
leads you right to the new one.

Just for shites and giggles I entered "tutorial regex" in the search box on
java.sun.com. The first hit is
<http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/regex/>
which redirects to
<http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E17409_01/javase/tutorial/essential/regex/>

Likewise,
<http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/essential/regex/quant.html>
(the very first link in a java.sun.com search for "tutorial regex quantifiers"
and the natural extension of the above link) redirects to
<http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/E17409_01/javase/tutorial/essential/regex/quant.html>

Hmm, that's the very link Roedy claims to be "strange" and "hard to find".
It's also the one from the "Quantifiers" anchor tag in the main regex tutorial
page.

Looks like
<http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/extra/regex/quant.html>
was an incorrect URL in the first place. Chalk that one up to operator error
rather than evil Oracle's nefarious misdeeds.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Roedy Green wrote...

Do you have *any* shred of evidence that that's the purpose?

I think that is what is generally known as a conspiracy theory.

And those does not come with evidence. And typical the people
that bring them up are not even looking for evidence.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Yes, but:

»Cool URIs Don't Change«

http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/uri

Now, suddenly thousands of link collections are partially
invalidated and many hours are spend to update links all
around the world without any additional benefit.

Keeping URL's is good.

But in case of a merger like this, then a change is almost
unavoidable. One of the things Oracle paid all that money for
is for the Java name. They want something for that money.

That should not be an excuse. After all, the software should
follow and implement the policies chosen by humans. Humans
should not instead follow and implement what their software
requires. A capable engineer should be able to implement any
wanted URI naming scheme with a CMS.

It is not practical to have the CMS internally use the old
URL's.

Of course they could rewrite all URL's from old to new.

But apparantly they decided not to bother with that.

Arne

 

[Roedy Green]

Do you have *any* shred of evidence that that's the purpose?

Ok, "Oracle has been pulling documentation off the Sun website and
giving it strange new URLs THAT make it hard to find the new docs."

I was just teasing Oracle, giving them benefit of the doubt their
incompetence had some purpose to it. Each nation has its own humour
templates. This is a pretty common idiom in Canada. Use of the smiley
is not. The whole point is to slip the humour in slyly so that only a
few catch it. Then those that get it feel pleasure at their
cleverness. It is supposed to be almost undetectable to everyone
else.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Ok, "Oracle has been pulling documentation off the Sun website and
giving it strange new URLs THAT make it hard to find the new docs."

I was just teasing Oracle, giving them benefit of the doubt their
incompetence had some purpose to it. Each nation has its own humour
templates. This is a pretty common idiom in Canada. Use of the smiley
is not. The whole point is to slip the humour in slyly so that only a
few catch it. Then those that get it feel pleasure at their
cleverness. It is supposed to be almost undetectable to everyone
else.

Do they have training classes in Canada on "How to communicate
on the internet with people from different cultures by not
assuming everybody is exactly like people in Smallville Canada" ?



Arne

 

[Lew]

Lew said:

Ok, "Oracle has been pulling documentation off the Sun website and
giving it strange new URLs THAT make it hard to find the new docs."

I was just teasing Oracle, giving them benefit of the doubt their
incompetence had some purpose to it. Each nation has its own humour
templates. This is a pretty common idiom in Canada. Use of the smiley
is not. The whole point is to slip the humour in slyly so that only a
few catch it. Then those that get it feel pleasure at their
cleverness. It is supposed to be almost undetectable to everyone
else.

I guess I'm not clever. It doesn't help the joke that the premise is false
that the Java documentation on Oracle's site is hard to find.

 

[Screamin Lord Byron]

I guess I'm not clever. It doesn't help the joke that the premise is
false that the Java documentation on Oracle's site is hard to find.

Oh, come on. Loosen up. It has nothing to do with cleverness. Either you
get the joke (or humorous remark for that matter), or you don't. And
that's about it. Roedy's cleverness remark was yet another example of
such remark. At least to me it was, and I'm not even Canadian.

I know quite a few very clever and intelligent people with the sense of
humor comparable to that of your average Henny Youngman (which is to say
none).

 

[Mike Schilling]

Oh, come on. Loosen up. It has nothing to do with cleverness. Either you
get the joke (or humorous remark for that matter), or you don't. And
that's about it. Roedy's cleverness remark was yet another example of
such remark. At least to me it was, and I'm not even Canadian.

I know quite a few very clever and intelligent people with the sense of
humor comparable to that of your average Henny Youngman (which is to say
none).

Take Java. Please.

 

[Lew]

On 07/11/2010 10:19 AM,

Oh, come on. Loosen up. It has nothing to do with cleverness. Either you
get the joke (or humorous remark for that matter), or you don't. And
that's about it. Roedy's cleverness remark was yet another example of
such remark. At least to me it was, and I'm not even Canadian.

I know quite a few very clever and intelligent people with the sense of
humor comparable to that of your average Henny Youngman (which is to say
none).

Apparently you missed the dry humor (or humour) in my remark, wherein I
playfully picked up on the dry insult from Roedy, humorously (or humourously)
intended of course (and didn't that make me feel clever for catching it!), and
reflected it back just a drily humorously (or humourously), then drove to the
point he was really making about inaccessibility of information on the former
java.sun.com, and refuted it.

Methinks 'tis thou who needs must lighten up, o Screamin Lord Byron.

 

[David Lamb]

I think that is what is generally known as a conspiracy theory.

Sometime's it's just a cynical way of speaking, as in "X did Y with the
result Z" becoming "X did Y (in order) to Z.

 

[Lew]

Roedy Green wrote...

Sometime's it's just a cynical way of speaking, as in "X did Y with the
result Z" becoming "X did Y (in order) to Z.

Which begs the question of whether X actually did Y. In this particular
instance they did not, nor did Z result.

 

[Screamin Lord Byron]

On 07/11/2010 10:19 AM,

Apparently you missed the dry humor (or humour) in my remark

Oh, thank God, but I must admit I still don't get it. It's OK though,
as long as no one feels offended.

throw new InvalidHumourCultureException();

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Sometime's it's just a cynical way of speaking, as in "X did Y with the
result Z" becoming "X did Y (in order) to Z.

Possible.

But communication is often easier if people write what they mean
instead of something that may make the reader guess what they mean.

Arne

 

[Lew]

Screamin Lord Byron wrote ...

Take Java.  Please.

Oracle actually announced the document move:
<http://blogs.sun.com/thejavatutorials/entry/
new_release_of_java_tutorial>