"Download" or "View" PDF document?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by David Segall, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. David Segall

    David Segall Guest

    I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

    I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
    quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
    appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
    if it succeeds and how long it takes. It is hosted by the free version
    of <http://www.000webhost.com/> so the information would supplement
    that already posted about 000WebHost.
     
    David Segall, Jun 15, 2009
    #1
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  2. David Segall wrote:

    > I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    > <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    > colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    > know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    > have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?


    The 'where' of a download is up to the visitor, not you or your website.
    The download dialog allows user to choose where they want to save it.
    (I'm frequently amused by people who say "I downloaded a file and now I
    can't find it.")

    > I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
    > quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
    > appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
    > if it succeeds and how long it takes.


    Using Ubuntu/Firefox 3.0.11, your file downloaded quite fast on my cable
    connection. I saved it to where I wanted to save it. Then I tried to
    open it with my document viewer, and got the following error message, so
    this may be part of your problem:

    Unhandled MIME type: "application/octet-stream"

    It is not my reader, as it works just fine for other PDFs.

    > It is hosted by the free version of <http://www.000webhost.com/> so
    > the information would supplement that already posted about
    > 000WebHost.


    Be careful about storing important stuff at that host. Some have posted
    that they may terminate an account without warning, and for no apparent
    reason. I see you pump them up at http://profectus.asia/ee_cheapweb.html
    and use them for your entire site. Just so ya know.

    It's a nice looking site; take care of it. ;-)

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jun 15, 2009
    #2
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  3. David Segall wrote:
    > I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    > <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    > colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    > know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    > have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?


    Then these same people are baffled by anything they download from
    anywhere on the web. It's a problem of theirs, as much as it is if they
    try to print a page from your site and find that a default printer
    hasn't been set on their computer. They could hardly expect you to help
    them with *that*.

    Firefox doesn't ask you with each download where you want it to go, but
    it has a download manager that by default shows a brief notification
    balloon when download is complete that you can click on to access the
    file. They can also access it from the Firefox menu using Tools |
    Downloads. So they don't actually have to know up front where the
    documents are being stored in order to access them.
     
    Harlan Messinger, Jun 15, 2009
    #3
  4. Ed Mullen wrote:
    > Harlan Messinger wrote:
    >> David Segall wrote:
    >>> I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    >>> <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    >>> colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    >>> know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    >>> have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

    >>
    >> Then these same people are baffled by anything they download from
    >> anywhere on the web. It's a problem of theirs, as much as it is if
    >> they try to print a page from your site and find that a default
    >> printer hasn't been set on their computer. They could hardly expect
    >> you to help them with *that*.
    >>
    >> Firefox doesn't ask you with each download where you want it to go, but

    >
    > Mine /always/ asks because I set that option.
    >
    >> it has a download manager that by default shows a brief notification
    >> balloon when download is complete that you can click on to access the
    >> file. They can also access it from the Firefox menu using Tools |
    >> Downloads. So they don't actually have to know up front where the
    >> documents are being stored in order to access them.

    >
    > Not if they automatically clear the download history each time they
    > close the program which is how mine is set up.


    People who have managed to configure their download options are
    perfectly capable of going back into the configuration to see for
    themselves what directory they are downloading to and won't be flustered
    by the concept.
     
    Harlan Messinger, Jun 15, 2009
    #4
  5. David Segall

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    On Jun 15, 10:39 am, David Segall <> wrote:
    > I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    > <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    > colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    > know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    > have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?
    >
    > I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
    > quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
    > appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
    > if it succeeds and how long it takes. It is hosted by the free version
    > of <http://www.000webhost.com/> so the information would supplement
    > that already posted about 000WebHost.


    I used Firefox and have a measured download of over 6000 kbps from a
    server that is not overloaded. It took about 40 seconds for your file
    to appear, which is exceptionally long on my system for the file
    length you have. There may be some congestion between my computer and
    your server, or your server may be overloaded, which is not uncommon
    on servers for free or very low priced services. I receive the e-
    edition of the local newspaper as PDF, and some of their pages with
    photos have a file size considerably larger than yours. The pages
    usually come up very fast, a matter of just a few seconds at worst.
     
    cwdjrxyz, Jun 15, 2009
    #5
  6. David Segall

    Neredbojias Guest

    On 15 Jun 2009, David Segall <> wrote:

    > I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    > <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    > colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    > know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    > have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?
    >
    > I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
    > quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
    > appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
    > if it succeeds and how long it takes. It is hosted by the free
    > version of <http://www.000webhost.com/> so the information would
    > supplement that already posted about 000WebHost.


    I've always had problems with .pdf files and think they suck.
    Nevertheless, after reading the replies previous to this gem, I think
    it's a server issue.

    --
    Neredbojias
    http://www.neredbojias.org/
    http://www.neredbojias.net/
     
    Neredbojias, Jun 16, 2009
    #6
  7. By the way [Re: "Download" or "View" PDF document?]

    On 15 Jun., 18:04, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:

    > > 000WebHost.

    >
    > Be careful about storing important stuff at that host.


    pinging at 000webhost.com: 208.43.150.234
    at www.hosting24.com: 208.43.151.205

    So why is the last hop with tracert 000webhost.com
    server.hosting24.com on the same IP like 000webhost.com???
     
    Jan C. Faerber, Jun 16, 2009
    #7
  8. David Segall

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    David Segall <> wrote:

    > I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    > <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    > colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    > know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    > have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?


    Yes, there is something, you can helpfully tell your readers: to right
    click (or control click for some Macs) and save where they like. It is a
    common problem for *lots of folk* who use computers quite a bit but are
    yet not *very* computer literate. How you do this is up to you.

    If it is the odd download in the middle of a page somewhere a simple
    something like: "Right-click or Control-click (for some Macs) to
    download" can be helpfully inserted as a note. If you have a page
    devoted specially to downloads, on that page you can add a note about
    this matter at more length:

    Note: You can download any of the following newsletters to your computer
    and read or print them as you please, on or offline. Right-click or
    Control-click (for some Macs) to download.

    Ignore all absurdly exaggerated slippery slope arguments and do this
    helpful thing to help those who have systems that do not auto ask where,
    and for those that are using other people's computers and do not know
    where the owner may have set such a thing up.

    On my sites that use downloads, they tend not to be just this or that
    odd one. So this is the strategy I employ: I give the isolated link in
    some page (eg. download the <a href="">latest newsletter</a> without
    specific help. But I add that you can also get this document at such and
    such download page where some further help is provided about how to
    download.

    Depends on the site and audience.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jun 16, 2009
    #8
  9. David Segall

    John Hosking Guest

    David Segall wrote:
    > I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    > <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    > colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    > know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    > have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?


    You *could* have, as a buddy, but it's not your official concern as a
    Webmaster. Where it gets saved is up to the user (and hir browser
    configuration).

    >
    > I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
    > quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
    > appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
    > if it succeeds and how long it takes.


    Success, both in loading and then opening for viewing, and viewing
    "immediately". In either case the download took about 50 seconds.


    --
    John
    In Switzerland with ADSL
    FF2 and Foxit Reader 3
     
    John Hosking, Jun 16, 2009
    #9
  10. David Segall

    David Segall Guest

    "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote:

    >David Segall wrote:
    >
    >> I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    >> <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    >> colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    >> know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    >> have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

    >
    >The 'where' of a download is up to the visitor, not you or your website.
    >The download dialog allows user to choose where they want to save it.
    >(I'm frequently amused by people who say "I downloaded a file and now I
    >can't find it.")


    Yes, but I assume that my former colleague, like most people, has
    simply installed the Adobe reader that would open it in his browser if
    the "download" was successful. Perhaps one should say "view" rather
    than "download" and maybe even provide download instructions as
    suggested by dorayme.
    >
    >> I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
    >> quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
    >> appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
    >> if it succeeds and how long it takes.

    >
    >Using Ubuntu/Firefox 3.0.11, your file downloaded quite fast on my cable
    >connection. I saved it to where I wanted to save it. Then I tried to
    >open it with my document viewer, and got the following error message, so
    >this may be part of your problem:
    >
    > Unhandled MIME type: "application/octet-stream"
    >
    >It is not my reader, as it works just fine for other PDFs.


    My PDF works fine in other readers :) I use a program called Paperport
    to scan images and store them as PDF files. It is likely that the
    problem is caused by their program using an unusual feature. It may
    even generate incorrect PDFs that are tolerated by Adobe's reader.
    If you want to pursue the problem
    <http://profectus.asia/text/portraitnotes.pdf> is a much smaller file
    or I can generate a tiny one and email it to you. Google returns 9000
    hits on your error message and "pdf".
    >
    >> It is hosted by the free version of <http://www.000webhost.com/> so
    >> the information would supplement that already posted about
    >> 000WebHost.

    >
    >Be careful about storing important stuff at that host. Some have posted
    >that they may terminate an account without warning, and for no apparent
    >reason. I see you pump them up at http://profectus.asia/ee_cheapweb.html
    >and use them for your entire site. Just so ya know.
    >
    >It's a nice looking site; take care of it. ;-)


    Thanks for your concern and the compliment but if it disappears
    temporarily no one will suffer and, at the price, it seems
    satisfactory. A cron job ensures that it has a regular visitor.
     
    David Segall, Jun 16, 2009
    #10
  11. David Segall

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    David Segall <> wrote:

    > "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote:
    >
    > >David Segall wrote:
    > >
    > >> I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    > >> <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    > >> colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    > >> know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    > >> have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

    > >

    ....
    > My PDF works fine in other readers :) I use a program called Paperport
    > to scan images and store them as PDF files. It is likely that the
    > problem is caused by their program using an unusual feature. It may
    > even generate incorrect PDFs that are tolerated by Adobe's reader.
    > If you want to pursue the problem
    > <http://profectus.asia/text/portraitnotes.pdf> is a much smaller file
    > or I can generate a tiny one and email it to you. Google returns 9000
    > hits on your error message and "pdf".
    > >

    ....

    I had no trouble simply clicking your link, waiting 30 seconds exactly,
    and it coming up in my Safari. But then I have a very good non adobe
    acrobat plug in installed. There is a button on it which will open it in
    a stand alone reader. That stand alone reader, for me is an Adobe
    program. It opened fine there too.

    I am not sure if you know about this stuff David, but that file of yours
    feels far too big for what it is. I had no trouble reducing it to about
    2 MB from its original 13 MB. The pics and all looked fine on screen and
    would probably print ok too. You have to ask yourself who would use up
    lots of ink (that they had to pay for) to print all this? I imagine
    lower res would use up less money and help finance the costly tickets to
    Film Festival. <g>

    In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:

    <http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>

    Other folks, don't click this if you don't want it, as it might start to
    download.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jun 16, 2009
    #11
  12. David Segall

    John Hosking Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>, David Segall wrote:
    >
    >> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote:
    >>
    >>> David Segall wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    >>>> <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    >>>> colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    >>>> know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    >>>> have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

    > ...



    >
    > I had no trouble simply clicking your link, waiting 30 seconds exactly,
    > and it coming up in my Safari. But then I have a very good non adobe
    > acrobat plug in installed. There is a button on it which will open it in
    > a stand alone reader. That stand alone reader, for me is an Adobe
    > program. It opened fine there too.
    >
    > I am not sure if you know about this stuff David, but that file of yours
    > feels far too big for what it is. I had no trouble reducing it to about
    > 2 MB from its original 13 MB. [...]
    >
    > In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:
    >
    > <http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>


    Apparently he did, because it's on his site now, too.

    >
    > Other folks, don't click this if you don't want it, as it might start to
    > download.


    I did, and it did, and it took about 10 seconds (down from 50
    yesterday). Repeated attempts from your server and David's site come in
    at just 7 seconds, so I'm guessing there's some caching going on, but
    even 10 seconds should be no problem.


    --
    John
    That KDF 6 paper tape reader could start and stop *50 times a second*.
    In 1963.
    Think about that
     
    John Hosking, Jun 17, 2009
    #12
  13. David Segall

    dorayme Guest

    In article <4a388b14$>,
    John Hosking <> wrote:

    > > In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:
    > >
    > > <http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>

    >
    > Apparently he did, because it's on his site now, too.
    >
    > >
    > > Other folks, don't click this if you don't want it, as it might start to
    > > download.

    >
    > I did, and it did, and it took about 10 seconds (down from 50
    > yesterday). Repeated attempts from your server and David's site come in
    > at just 7 seconds, so I'm guessing there's some caching going on, but
    > even 10 seconds should be no problem.


    Should take about 2 or 3 secs on the broadband I have. Perhaps it would
    be smoother on another server? I just put it up on the same server that
    he uses, I don't really ever use this free one except for a few bits and
    pieces for usenet mainly...

    I don't fully trust it! You would think that if you are prepared, out of
    the goodness of your heart, to sign up to a free server, you should be
    getting an indubitably trustworthy one. What is the world coming to? <g>

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jun 17, 2009
    #13
  14. David Segall

    David Segall Guest

    dorayme <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > David Segall <> wrote:
    >
    >> "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >David Segall wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> I recently added a PDF document to my web site
    >> >> <http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
    >> >> colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
    >> >> know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
    >> >> have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?
    >> >

    >...
    >> My PDF works fine in other readers :) I use a program called Paperport
    >> to scan images and store them as PDF files. It is likely that the
    >> problem is caused by their program using an unusual feature. It may
    >> even generate incorrect PDFs that are tolerated by Adobe's reader.
    >> If you want to pursue the problem
    >> <http://profectus.asia/text/portraitnotes.pdf> is a much smaller file
    >> or I can generate a tiny one and email it to you. Google returns 9000
    >> hits on your error message and "pdf".
    >> >

    >...
    >
    >I had no trouble simply clicking your link, waiting 30 seconds exactly,
    >and it coming up in my Safari. But then I have a very good non adobe
    >acrobat plug in installed. There is a button on it which will open it in
    >a stand alone reader. That stand alone reader, for me is an Adobe
    >program. It opened fine there too.
    >
    >I am not sure if you know about this stuff David, but that file of yours
    >feels far too big for what it is. I had no trouble reducing it to about
    >2 MB from its original 13 MB. The pics and all looked fine on screen and
    >would probably print ok too. You have to ask yourself who would use up
    >lots of ink (that they had to pay for) to print all this? I imagine
    >lower res would use up less money and help finance the costly tickets to
    >Film Festival. <g>
    >
    >In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:
    >
    ><http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>


    Thanks dorayme. I don't know much about "all this stuff" and I would
    have had to rescan the images at a lower resolution to shrink the pdf.
    I have gratefully accepted your offer and substituted your pdf for
    mine. I have also added you to the credits page. If you prefer to be
    listed under your real name let me know.
     
    David Segall, Jun 17, 2009
    #14
  15. David Segall

    David Segall Guest

    John Hosking <> wrote:

    >dorayme wrote:
    >>
    >> In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:
    >>
    >> <http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>

    >
    >Apparently he did, because it's on his site now, too.


    Indeed I did. I have to confess that I didn't consider the confusion
    that might cause for someone who is reading this thread from the
    beginning.
     
    David Segall, Jun 17, 2009
    #15
  16. David Segall

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    David Segall <> wrote:

    > >In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:
    > >
    > ><http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>

    >
    > Thanks dorayme. I don't know much about "all this stuff" and I would
    > have had to rescan the images at a lower resolution to shrink the pdf.
    > I have gratefully accepted your offer and substituted your pdf for
    > mine. I have also added you to the credits page. If you prefer to be
    > listed under your real name let me know.


    Well, to tell you the truth, I don't believe in levels of reality and my
    name is as real as the paving stone I tripped on the other day. No need
    to mention me for such a small thing.

    (btw, whenever I scan, I tend to scan at quite high a res, avoiding - as
    far as possible - the software in the scanner. I use independent high
    grade software to do work on the file afterwards. I scan to TIFF or PSD
    and take it from there in image manipulation software... )

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jun 17, 2009
    #16
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