Dreamweaver or Frontpage or Plain HTML

Discussion in 'HTML' started by MajorSetback@excite.com, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I am starting up a home business and will be setting up a web site to
    market the software that I will be developing in C++. I was wondering
    if I should buy something like Dreamweaver or Frontpage or try to
    develop the web pages directly using HTML and a text editor. I have
    not had experience building web pages but have had several years
    experience in programming in C and C++ and in using LaTeX for document
    preparation.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Peter.
    , Jan 8, 2006
    #1
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  2. wrote:
    > I am starting up a home business and will be setting up a web site to
    > market the software that I will be developing in C++. I was wondering
    > if I should buy something like Dreamweaver or Frontpage or try to
    > develop the web pages directly using HTML and a text editor. I have
    > not had experience building web pages but have had several years
    > experience in programming in C and C++ and in using LaTeX for document
    > preparation.
    >
    > Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


    Not tried fp, but dw seems to be a very primitive table-based thing - I
    shelled out for it, but junked it after a while.

    html-kit from www.chami.com is good, or notepad.

    Chris
    Chris Sharman, Jan 9, 2006
    #2
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  3. Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, quothed:

    > I am starting up a home business and will be setting up a web site to
    > market the software that I will be developing in C++. I was wondering
    > if I should buy something like Dreamweaver or Frontpage or try to
    > develop the web pages directly using HTML and a text editor.


    The latter. Html is simple. Css, which you'll also need, is fairly
    simple although there are some issues regarding its efficacy and inter-
    browser rendering.

    You should be able to make a decent web page within 1-2 weeks. If you
    apply yourself, you could be an "expert" in both well within a year.

    I started by viewing the source of and "hacking" (-benignly) html email
    then diddling with frontpage and being accordingly dissatisfied then
    viewing the source of web pages I liked on the Net. The biggest flaw in
    my learning-curve was not finding a newsgroup such as this one sooner to
    get feedback on which procedures were right and which were not so right
    as well as further methods and additional information not encountered in
    my other efforts.

    Hope this helps.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
    Neredbojias, Jan 9, 2006
    #3
  4. granpaw Guest

    wrote in
    news::

    > I am starting up a home business and will be setting up a web site to
    > market the software that I will be developing in C++. I was wondering
    > if I should buy something like Dreamweaver or Frontpage or try to
    > develop the web pages directly using HTML and a text editor. I have
    > not had experience building web pages but have had several years
    > experience in programming in C and C++ and in using LaTeX for document
    > preparation.
    >
    > Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Peter.
    >


    Hello Peter,
    No one needs to use a bloated (IMHO) webpage editor that costs big money
    and adds all kinds of useless junk to your code usch as DW or Frontpage.
    Try this link:
    http://www.evrsoft.com, It's free for the taking and has four levels of
    function, from newbie to pro...built in FTP also.

    Just a suggestion, hope this helps, and good luck.
    granpaw
    granpaw, Jan 9, 2006
    #4
  5. Rastus Guest

    Spend 80 dollars and get a proffessionally designed template if you can find
    one to suit your needs.

    Yes - we all know that webmasters are meant to make their own web pages,
    only use notepad, only eat jolt and pizza and masturbate nightly with
    cheesegraters etc, but it is just irresistably cost effective to use off the
    shelf.

    I tend to use project 7 templates simply because it would cost me waaaay
    more than the template cost to do it myself. You only get so much time in a
    day and some tasks pay better dividends than others.
    Rastus, Jan 9, 2006
    #5
  6. Fleeing from the madness of the jungle
    Rastus <> stumbled into
    news:alt.html,alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
    and said:

    > ...
    > Yes - we all know that webmasters are meant to make their own web pages,
    > only use notepad, only eat jolt and pizza and masturbate nightly with
    > cheesegraters etc,


    Just nightly? bah - lightweight :)

    --
    William Tasso

    dreaming in monochrome binary - to save bandwidth
    William Tasso, Jan 9, 2006
    #6
  7. David Segall Guest

    wrote:

    >I am starting up a home business and will be setting up a web site to
    >market the software that I will be developing in C++. I was wondering
    >if I should buy something like Dreamweaver or Frontpage or try to
    >develop the web pages directly using HTML and a text editor. I have
    >not had experience building web pages but have had several years
    >experience in programming in C and C++ and in using LaTeX for document
    >preparation.
    >
    >Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Peter.

    If you are a very good computer programmer it is likely that you are
    not a very good aesthetic designer so go to http://www.oswd.org/ and
    pick one of the free, open source, site templates. Get with the trend
    and use the advanced search to ensure that the site you pick uses CSS
    and conforms to one of the XHTML standards.

    Now go to
    <http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=dreamweaver>
    and download the free thirty day trial. Use it to change the site you
    downloaded to match your requirements. It includes a perfectly good
    text editor and an FTP program which is the minimum requirement to set
    up a web site. If, at the end of the thirty days, you find you have
    only used the text editor and FTP program then choose something else.
    If, like me, you like the way Dreamweaver can edit a site from the
    code, pictorial, CSS or even File view buy it. You may even want to
    buy it because it provides a one-click way to view your pages in each
    of the multiple browsers you should have on your computer or because
    it will reformat, validate and check the links on your pages.

    I should add that if you currently program in C++ using only vi,
    Notepad, punched cards or even Emacs you will hate Dreamweaver. Use
    the one you like to edit the HTML.
    David Segall, Jan 9, 2006
    #7
  8. Bruce Lewis Guest

    Use latex2html if you're already familiar with latex.

    HTML is a much simpler markup language than latex, so you can probably
    pick it up quickly once you're done with your current project.

    --

    http://ourdoings.com/ Easily organize and disseminate news and
    photos for your family or group.
    Bruce Lewis, Jan 9, 2006
    #8
  9. Matt Probert Guest

    On 8 Jan 2006 07:56:37 -0800, wrote:

    > have had several years experience in using LaTeX


    Some guys have all the luck! I can't get my missus to wear PVC, let
    alone rubber.....

    </get coat>


    Matt


    PS

    As everyone else has said, use a text editor and learn HTML, it's very
    simple and unsophisticated.


    --
    The Probert Encyclopaedia - Beyond Britannica
    http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com
    Matt Probert, Jan 9, 2006
    #9
  10. David Segall wrote:
    > If you are a very good computer programmer it is likely that you are
    > not a very good aesthetic designer so go to http://www.oswd.org/...


    nice site.
    Travis Newbury, Jan 9, 2006
    #10
  11. Paul Ding Guest

    On 8 Jan 2006 07:56:37 -0800, posted something
    that included:

    >I am starting up a home business and will be setting up a web site to
    >market the software that I will be developing in C++. I was wondering
    >if I should buy something like Dreamweaver or Frontpage or try to
    >develop the web pages directly using HTML and a text editor.


    No.

    People are going to judge you software by the quality of your website.
    You don't want a static website; you need something dynamic. A
    bulletin board lets your users rave about your product, lets your
    users suggest new uses for your product, and provide workarounds for
    the, ahem, "features" we all work so hard to avoid. A blog lets your
    users feel like they know you personally, and not only do many people
    prefer to buy from a friend, even the ones that want to keep an arms'
    length from their suppliers will be happy to believe that it's easy to
    contact you for support. They worry about buying a product they can't
    figure out how to use, with support in Mumbai, complete with such a
    heavy accent they can't undestand.

    Since you only have one product (or a half-dozen), you may well be
    using PayPal and 2checkOut or something like that for processing
    payments. (Some people love PayPal, some people hate it, and you will
    benefit from offering potential customers both options.)

    Consequently, you don't really need ZenCart or OSCommerce or some
    other full-fledged shopping cart. That means you can use a regular CMS
    instead. Drupal is pretty easy to deal with, and it's the one I would
    go with.

    Another solution might be to go with Mambo Open Source or Joomla.
    These are basically the same product - there's recently been a rift in
    the developer community, and it appears most of them are now working
    on the new product, Joomla, instead of MOS. I've not spent much time
    with Joomla, but there is a patch available that allows you can to use
    single-sign-in Mambo Open Source with Simple Machines Forum for a BBS.
    There are a lot of other CMSes, but they tend to be lot more
    slashdottish in appearance, and I hink you probably want a website
    that looks simple, clean, easy to use, because that will suggest to
    customers that your C++ software will be simple and clean in
    appearance, and easy to use.

    Good luck in your venture!





    --
    If we're losing 40-130 species a day,
    How come nobody can itemize them?
    And why can't fruitflies be one of them?
    Paul Ding, Jan 9, 2006
    #11
  12. Jose Guest

    > If you are a very good computer programmer it is likely that you are
    > not a very good aesthetic designer so go to http://www.oswd.org/ and
    > pick one of the free, open source, site templates.


    But DO NOT pick a good looking one. Pretend you are actually trying to
    find stuff out from their website - see if it's easy to navigate,
    resizes gracefully, and doesn't waste precious monitor real estate.
    There are many pretty sites that are just a pain to use.

    Jose
    --
    Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
    for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
    Jose, Jan 9, 2006
    #12
  13. In message <>,
    writes
    >I am starting up a home business and will be setting up a web site to
    >market the software that I will be developing in C++. I was wondering
    >if I should buy something like Dreamweaver or Frontpage or try to
    >develop the web pages directly using HTML and a text editor. I have
    >not had experience building web pages but have had several years
    >experience in programming in C and C++ and in using LaTeX for document
    >preparation.
    >

    I use htmlvalidator.com
    Try it online here:
    http://www.siliconglen.com/usability/

    or download the free version here
    http://www.htmlvalidator.com/lite/

    --
    Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). http://www.SiliconGlen.com/
    Please sign the Spam Petition: http://www.siliconglen.com/spampetition/
    Home to the first online guide to Scotland, founded 1994.
    Scottish FAQ, weddings, website design, stop spam and more!
    Craig Cockburn, Jan 9, 2006
    #13
  14. Charles Sweeney, Jan 10, 2006
    #14
  15. >I am starting up a home business and will be setting up a web site to
    > market the software that I will be developing in C++. I was wondering
    > if I should buy something like Dreamweaver or Frontpage or try to
    > develop the web pages directly using HTML and a text editor.


    As a fellow C++ programmer, I can say that you will find the FrontPage IDE
    easier to get used to. However, I can't stand FP and only use Dreamweaver --
    which in my opinion is far superior.
    --
    WW
    www.rabbitstewlounge.com
    Warren Warden, Jan 10, 2006
    #15
  16. Samman Guest

    "granpaw" <dontsend@here> wrote in message
    news:...
    > wrote in
    > news::
    >


    <snip>

    > Hello Peter,
    > No one needs to use a bloated (IMHO) webpage editor that costs big money
    > and adds all kinds of useless junk to your code usch as DW or Frontpage.


    </snip>


    Can you be more specific about what DW adds to the code?

    --

    Samman
    Rip it to reply
    Samman, Jan 11, 2006
    #16
  17. Fleeing from the madness of the Road Runner High Speed Online
    http://www.rr.com jungle
    Samman <> stumbled into
    news:alt.html,alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
    and said:

    > "granpaw" <dontsend@here> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> wrote in
    >> news::
    >>

    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >> Hello Peter,
    >> No one needs to use a bloated (IMHO) webpage editor that costs big money
    >> and adds all kinds of useless junk to your code usch as DW or Frontpage.

    >
    > </snip>
    >
    >
    > Can you be more specific about what DW adds to the code?
    >


    example only:

    <table>
    ....
    <tr width="270">
    <td></td>
    <td></td>
    <td></td>
    <td></td>
    <td></td>
    <td></td>
    </tr>
    </table>

    ....

    <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

    --
    William Tasso

    Save the drama
    for your Mama.
    William Tasso, Jan 11, 2006
    #17
  18. Samman Guest

    "William Tasso" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > Fleeing from the madness of the Road Runner High Speed Online
    > http://www.rr.com jungle
    > Samman <> stumbled into
    > news:alt.html,alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
    > and said:
    >
    >> "granpaw" <dontsend@here> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> wrote in
    >>> news::
    >>>

    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>
    >>> Hello Peter,
    >>> No one needs to use a bloated (IMHO) webpage editor that costs big money
    >>> and adds all kinds of useless junk to your code usch as DW or Frontpage.

    >>
    >> </snip>
    >>
    >>
    >> Can you be more specific about what DW adds to the code?
    >>

    >
    > example only:
    >
    > <table>
    > ...
    > <tr width="270">
    > <td></td>
    > <td></td>
    > <td></td>
    > <td></td>
    > <td></td>
    > <td></td>
    > </tr>
    > </table>
    >
    > ...
    >
    > <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
    >
    > --
    > William Tasso
    >
    > Save the drama
    > for your Mama.



    That is indeed interesting...
    I have been working with DW in a production environment for about 4 years
    and have not witnessed code (markup) being generated like that, unless asked
    to do so.

    Example. I asked DW to make a table, 100% in width, 3 rows and 2 columns.
    Here is the markup it gave me...

    <table width="100%" summary="test table">
    <tr>
    <td>&nbsp;</td>
    <td>&nbsp;</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>&nbsp;</td>
    <td>&nbsp;</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>&nbsp;</td>
    <td>&nbsp;</td>
    </tr>
    </table>

    The non-breaking spaces it inserts are just placeholders, where other
    objects/content would be placed. After content is added, it looks like this
    (no code cleaning was done)...

    <table width="100%" summary="test table">
    <tr>
    <td>Lorem ipsum dolor si</td>
    <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consect</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit am</td>
    <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscin</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit </td>
    <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectet</td>
    </tr>
    </table>

    Looks pretty clean to me, nicely indented, etc...

    I'm not trying to convince you to use the tool. Use whatever you are
    comfortable, happy & productive with. :)

    --

    Samman
    Rip it to reply
    Samman, Jan 11, 2006
    #18
  19. Duende Guest

    On 11 Jan 2006 Samman wrote in alt.www.webmaster

    > The non-breaking spaces it inserts are just placeholders, where other
    > objects/content would be placed. After content is added, it looks like
    > this (no code cleaning was done)...
    >
    > <table width="100%" summary="test table">
    > <tr>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor si</td>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consect</td>
    > </tr>
    > <tr>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit am</td>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscin</td>
    > </tr>
    > <tr>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit </td>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectet</td>
    > </tr>
    > </table>
    >
    > Looks pretty clean to me, nicely indented, etc...


    Yah, but your content isn't very original. :)

    --
    D?
    Duende, Jan 11, 2006
    #19
  20. Fleeing from the madness of the Road Runner High Speed Online
    http://www.rr.com jungle
    Samman <> stumbled into
    news:alt.html,alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
    and said:

    > "William Tasso" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek:...
    >> Fleeing from the madness of the Road Runner High Speed Online
    >> http://www.rr.com jungle
    >> Samman <> stumbled into
    >> news:alt.html,alt.www.webmaster,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html
    >> and said:
    >>
    >>> "granpaw" <dontsend@here> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> wrote in
    >>>> news::
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> <snip>
    >>>
    >>>> Hello Peter,
    >>>> No one needs to use a bloated (IMHO) webpage editor that costs big
    >>>> money
    >>>> and adds all kinds of useless junk to your code usch as DW or
    >>>> Frontpage.
    >>>
    >>> </snip>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Can you be more specific about what DW adds to the code?
    >>>

    >>
    >> example only:
    >>
    >> <table>
    >> ...
    >> <tr width="270">
    >> <td></td>
    >> <td></td>
    >> <td></td>
    >> <td></td>
    >> <td></td>
    >> <td></td>
    >> </tr>
    >> </table>
    >>
    >> ...
    >>
    >> <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
    >>


    >
    > That is indeed interesting...
    > I have been working with DW in a production environment for about 4 years
    > and have not witnessed code (markup) being generated like that, unless
    > asked
    > to do so.


    well - yes, that's the point isn't it.

    > Example. I asked DW to make a table, 100% in width, 3 rows and 2 columns.
    > Here is the markup it gave me...
    >
    > <table width="100%" summary="test table">
    > <tr>
    > <td>&nbsp;</td>
    > <td>&nbsp;</td>
    > </tr>
    > <tr>
    > <td>&nbsp;</td>
    > <td>&nbsp;</td>
    > </tr>
    > <tr>
    > <td>&nbsp;</td>
    > <td>&nbsp;</td>
    > </tr>
    > </table>


    Ahh yes - forgot the &nbsp; - apologies, above was from memory.

    > The non-breaking spaces it inserts are just placeholders, where other
    > objects/content would be placed. After content is added, it looks like
    > this
    > (no code cleaning was done)...
    >
    > <table width="100%" summary="test table">
    > <tr>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor si</td>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consect</td>
    > </tr>
    > <tr>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit am</td>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscin</td>
    > </tr>
    > <tr>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit </td>
    > <td>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectet</td>
    > </tr>
    > </table>
    >
    > Looks pretty clean to me, nicely indented, etc...


    markup looks just fine and dandy[1] - goes to show that power-tools make
    stuff quicker, not necessarily better[2]. Not sure where you're posting
    from, but in AWW we see a lot of empty tables when reviewing
    DW/FP/whatever generated pages

    > I'm not trying to convince you to use the tool. Use whatever you are
    > comfortable, happy & productive with. :)


    Likewise - live long and prosper.

    [1] usual caveats about correct use of table markup applies
    [2] the number of people that can't drill a straight hole is truly
    astonishing
    --
    William Tasso

    Save the drama
    for your Mama.
    William Tasso, Jan 12, 2006
    #20
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