Eclipse best/good or bad IDE for Python?

Discussion in 'Python' started by seberino@spawar.navy.mil, Dec 2, 2005.

  1. Guest

    I'm trying to move beyond Emacs/Vim/Kate
    and was wondering if Eclipse is better and if it is the *best*
    IDE for Python.

    Should I leave Emacs and do Python coding in Eclipse?

    Chris
    , Dec 2, 2005
    #1
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  2. Jorge Godoy Guest

    "" <> writes:

    > I'm trying to move beyond Emacs/Vim/Kate
    > and was wondering if Eclipse is better and if it is the *best*
    > IDE for Python.
    >
    > Should I leave Emacs and do Python coding in Eclipse?


    IMVVVHO, Eclipse is like a "graphical" Emacs. It uses a lot more memory,
    demands an structure that makes you put your projects under its structure
    instead of using any layout that you wish. Integrating it with Subversion,
    CVS or other VCS is as hard as with Emacs -- if not harder for some VCS...

    But, it is just me and I use Emacs for something like 7 years now... ;-)

    --
    Jorge Godoy <>
    Jorge Godoy, Dec 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. Guest

    Eclipse is very-very slow. 3G P4 looks like 8M 86. It might be good for
    Java, but not for Python. BUT THIS IS 1 OF 2 IDE'S WHICH ALLOWS
    DEBUGGING OF MULTITHREADED APPLICATIONS. I prefer Eric or PythonWin.
    , Dec 2, 2005
    #3
  4. Guest

    Eclipse is very-very slow. 3G P4 looks like 8M 86. It might be good for
    Java, but not for Python. BUT THIS IS 1 OF 2 IDE'S WHICH ALLOWS
    DEBUGGING OF MULTITHREADED APPLICATIONS. I prefer Eric or PythonWin.
    , Dec 2, 2005
    #4
  5. James Guest

    There is no answer for that question. All Python IDEs have their own
    strengths and weaknesses and different programmers expect different
    things from their IDEs. What's best for YOU depends on what features
    you need. PyDev, without question a "good" IDE. BEST is a subjective
    affair.

    I use Eclipse (or SPE) when I am unfamiliar with an API and auto list
    members helps in those cases. Otherwise SciTe (or Vim/Kate/Emacs in
    your case) suits me well.
    James, Dec 2, 2005
    #5
  6. I'm a big fan of Eclipse and reocmmend it to anyone who asks :)

    No one can say any one is the *best*, since it's a matter of taste,
    but it's pretty darn good.

    The main benefit IMO is it's felibility ... Eclipse is a *framework*,
    that can handle lots things quite well, like HTML (If you're coding
    python for the web), C/C++ (If you're building extensions), XML if
    you're using that, and so on ... All from within one application, all
    with common paradigms.

    The handling of RCS' is also common ...

    I use Eclipse + PyDev + Subclipse everyday!

    Of course I never could get into Emacs ... It's incredibly powerful too
    though ... Why move away from it? Is it missing something you need?

    +1 on eclipse from me!

    J.F.

    wrote:
    > I'm trying to move beyond Emacs/Vim/Kate
    > and was wondering if Eclipse is better and if it is the *best*
    > IDE for Python.
    >
    > Should I leave Emacs and do Python coding in Eclipse?
    >
    > Chris
    >
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Doyon?=, Dec 2, 2005
    #6
  7. Hi Chris,

    I think that you should try it yourself... being the *best ide* is
    usually a subjective matter, so, you should decide yourself if it is the
    best IDE for the task you want it to.

    I must also warn you that I'm its current maintainer, and it is *my*
    favorite IDE :)

    Also, I use it for large projects (2569 .py files on my python
    installation and about 1800 .py files in my project), and, altough I
    agree with the general idea that you need a fast computer to use it at
    optimal performance, I found that using an athlon 1600+ with 512mb RAM
    was enough for me when using eclipse with pydev (also, the features
    provided by eclipse are more than worth the loss of speed when editing
    some things when compared to editors such as vi or emacs, altough the
    learning curve for that might not be so light, in the long run, I'm
    pretty sure that it is worth it -- altough I really miss a faster
    machine for compiling c++).

    But in the end, as I said, it is a subjective matter, so, you'll have to
    decide it for yourself.

    Cheers,

    Fabio

    wrote:

    >I'm trying to move beyond Emacs/Vim/Kate
    >and was wondering if Eclipse is better and if it is the *best*
    >IDE for Python.
    >
    >Should I leave Emacs and do Python coding in Eclipse?
    >
    >Chris
    >
    >
    >
    Fabio Zadrozny, Dec 2, 2005
    #7
  8. wrote:

    >I'm trying to move beyond Emacs/Vim/Kate
    >and was wondering if Eclipse is better and if it is the *best*
    >IDE for Python.
    >
    >Should I leave Emacs and do Python coding in Eclipse?
    >
    >

    I've been a heavy Emacs user for several years, but recently switched to
    Eclipse for Python development. I was skeptical at first, but I gave it
    a chance for a few days and was convinced.

    The killer PyDev feature for me is pylint integration. Being informed
    immediately when you mistype a variable name is a big timesaver. Also
    nice is the refactoring support (although this it is possible to
    integrate BicycleRepairMan! with Emacs, I found it easier to use in
    Eclipse). I still find the Eclipse editor awkward for some things that
    are easy in Emacs (Emacs is in my fingers), so I occasionally switch
    back to Emacs for a quick edit.

    Eclipse performance is not a problem for me, but I have a beefy box.

    Enjoy,

    Aaron Bingham
    Aaron Bingham, Dec 2, 2005
    #8
  9. gene tani Guest

    wrote:
    > I'm trying to move beyond Emacs/Vim/Kate
    > and was wondering if Eclipse is better and if it is the *best*
    > IDE for Python.
    >
    > Should I leave Emacs and do Python coding in Eclipse?
    >
    > Chris


    I'm agnostic; lots of IDE's/editors have buzz, you should learn to use
    at least a couple well:

    - vim, emacs
    - Wing, Komodo, Textmate (OS X only)
    - jedit, eclipse,
    - eric, PythonWin, kate, leo, etc.

    Check the wiki:
    http://wiki.python.org/moin/DevelopmentTools

    then google c.l.py for how your most desired features are supported:
    syntax coloring, SVN integrate, auto-complete (if you think it helps),
    pylint, threaded debugger, smart tags, object/class/code
    folding/browser etc. This guy spent a lot of time composing this:

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp...9546?q=IDE subversion&rnum=1#12ea5915f8f09546
    gene tani, Dec 2, 2005
    #9
  10. >>if it is the *best* IDE for Python. <<

    Nobody can answer this for you. Just try them all. The two I like that
    I don't see mentioned in this thread are PythonCard (which is free) and
    WingWare (which costs $30.00 but you can try for free.)

    bs
    BartlebyScrivener, Dec 3, 2005
    #10
  11. malv Guest

    This is probably a fair answer.
    My experience: Two years ago I started with Boa till I discovered eric.
    I have been with eric ever since. Eric uses Qt as GUI. I think both Qt
    and wx enable you to do pretty much the same thing. I like the work
    F.Lundh did on Tkinter, but every time I try, I get bogged down in the
    tcl mess that it builds on. Take the example of the indispensible
    datagrid: a piece of cake in both Qt and wxWidgets, a nightmare
    otherwise.

    Since a couple of weeks I made the tour of wing-ide, komodo and PyDev.
    PyDev appears really to be a top heavy kludge. Perhaps OK for java
    lovers but very laborious to set up and work with, this in spite of the
    abundant hype & spam on this board. Wing-ide's debugger stops on
    imagined errors where eric and komodo do allright. I could not get the
    designer to run on komodo. So I'm back at eric. On eric you use the
    superb Qt designer. If you run linux, you get Qt and PyQt with KDE. You
    can keep on running gnome if you want. For windows, Qt4 is supposed to
    be free. Further, very extensive and attractive extensions exist: qwt
    and qwt3d for graphics.

    This is my experience. If I find better, I'll change.
    malv
    malv, Dec 4, 2005
    #11
  12. Guest

    Though I tried most the above listed IDEs, sticking with a few for
    awhile, I always find myself gravitating back to the one no one ever
    mentions: IDLE. It's simple, fast, and with multiple monitors the lack
    of tabs really isn't much of a problem.

    The biggest reason I've found myself using IDLE is the
    colorizing...I've found little support in other editors for builtins
    having their own color. Granted, I haven't gotten far enough to bother
    with that in some editors. Eclipse, for example, performs like a dog on
    my dual opteron workstation w/ 2GB of RAM, which is more than enough to
    annoy me. I shouldn't have to wait more than about 1 second for an
    editor to start and then open what is essentially a text file :p.
    , Dec 4, 2005
    #12
  13. Paul Boddie Guest

    wrote:
    > Eclipse, for example, performs like a dog on
    > my dual opteron workstation w/ 2GB of RAM, which is more than enough to
    > annoy me. I shouldn't have to wait more than about 1 second for an
    > editor to start and then open what is essentially a text file :p.


    And then, due to the excessive "project management" screen furniture,
    have to edit it "through the keyhole"...

    Paul
    Paul Boddie, Dec 4, 2005
    #13
  14. John J. Lee Guest

    Aaron Bingham <> writes:
    > wrote:

    [...ex-emacs user explains switch to Eclipse...]
    > The killer PyDev feature for me is pylint integration. Being informed
    > immediately when you mistype a variable name is a big timesaver. Also


    I now find it difficult to mis-type variable names in Emacs, since I
    have F4 bound to dabbrev-expand. I also do standard things like using
    query-replace when renaming. Actually, something like dabbrev-expand
    is perhaps the one thing I would find indispensible switching to any
    other editor -- I wonder if Eclipse/PyDev has it?

    (dabbrev-expand searches backwards in the current buffer to find
    'words' that are completions of the word you're typing immediately
    before the cursor position (then back and forth in all other buffers
    if search in the current buffer failed...), until it finds a
    completion; then you can repeat the command to cycle through all other
    possible completions.)


    > nice is the refactoring support (although this it is possible to
    > integrate BicycleRepairMan! with Emacs, I found it easier to use in
    > Eclipse).

    [...]

    Refactoring and the general 'semantic slant' certainly seems the
    interesting bit about Eclipse (that and the fact that Emacs is a bit
    old and hairy, and Eclipse is growing a big user base like Emacs).

    Not entirely sure Lisp->Java is progress, though.


    John
    John J. Lee, Dec 5, 2005
    #14
  15. John J. Lee Guest

    Fabio Zadrozny <> writes:
    [...]
    > I must also warn you that I'm its current maintainer, and it is *my*
    > favorite IDE :)

    [...]
    > But in the end, as I said, it is a subjective matter, so, you'll have to
    > decide it for yourself.


    Hey, Fabio, can this be true:

    https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=15820

    |------- Comment #4 From Chris McLaren 2003-01-08 10:43 [reply] -------
    |
    |this is not a key bindings issue anymore - key bindings can be fully
    |customized but vi emulation requires special support from the editor. closing
    |this pr - best step is to try and lobby vi emulation to the draft proposal.



    They're kidding, right??? Can it be possible there's no free vi mode
    for Eclipse?? If something so basic is missing from the core stuff,
    gives me little hope emacs will be displaced as the Big Beast of
    editors anytime soon...

    The basis in Java makes me worry a tiny bit too. First, Lisp plus the
    'programmers scratch their own itch' model seems to have been very
    successful in letting people Get the Job Done in Emacs. More
    important, I fear licensing issues will keep away Emacs hackers who
    might otherwise switch and make the platform more usable for other
    Emacs refugees.



    John
    John J. Lee, Dec 5, 2005
    #15
  16. gene tani Guest

    wrote:
    > Though I tried most the above listed IDEs, sticking with a few for
    > awhile, I always find myself gravitating back to the one no one ever
    > mentions: IDLE. It's simple, fast, and with multiple monitors the lack
    > of tabs really isn't much of a problem.
    >
    > The biggest reason I've found myself using IDLE is the
    > colorizing...I've found little support in other editors for builtins
    > having their own color.


    Do you mean keywords or modulenames/ classname that are builtin and
    from stdlib?

    colorization easily customized in Textmate, you can change color/
    bold/italic /underlining of 32 categories of things (some not relevant
    to python, and italics not really that useful)): Comments, keywords,
    numers, user- defined constants, builtin consts, vars, strings, string
    interpolation, preproc'r line, preproc'r directive, func/meth name,
    class name, meth param, meth args, etc.

    In komodo, you can choose text color/font size/bold/italics (but not
    underline)for python for:bracebad, bracehighlite, classes, comments,
    control chars, default, functions, identifiers, indent guides,
    keywords,line numbers(?), numbers, operators, stderr/in/out, stringeol,
    strings.

    probably you can do similar things in vim,emacs,eclipse, wing, I
    haven't checked. Being able to bold/underline (Not relying solely on
    color) means you use fewer colors. Much easier on the eyes.
    gene tani, Dec 5, 2005
    #16
  17. John J. Lee wrote:

    >Aaron Bingham <> writes:
    >
    >
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>

    >[...ex-emacs user explains switch to Eclipse...]
    >
    >
    >>The killer PyDev feature for me is pylint integration. Being informed
    >>immediately when you mistype a variable name is a big timesaver. Also
    >>
    >>

    >
    >I now find it difficult to mis-type variable names in Emacs, since I
    >have F4 bound to dabbrev-expand. I also do standard things like using
    >query-replace when renaming. Actually, something like dabbrev-expand
    >is perhaps the one thing I would find indispensible switching to any
    >other editor -- I wonder if Eclipse/PyDev has it?
    >
    >(dabbrev-expand searches backwards in the current buffer to find
    >'words' that are completions of the word you're typing immediately
    >before the cursor position (then back and forth in all other buffers
    >if search in the current buffer failed...), until it finds a
    >completion; then you can repeat the command to cycle through all other
    >possible completions.)
    >
    >


    Yes, Eclipse has it by default (not a pydev work): Alt+/


    >
    >
    >
    >>nice is the refactoring support (although this it is possible to
    >>integrate BicycleRepairMan! with Emacs, I found it easier to use in
    >>Eclipse).
    >>
    >>

    >[...]
    >
    >Refactoring and the general 'semantic slant' certainly seems the
    >interesting bit about Eclipse (that and the fact that Emacs is a bit
    >old and hairy, and Eclipse is growing a big user base like Emacs).
    >
    >Not entirely sure Lisp->Java is progress, though.
    >
    >


    Well, actually, pydev does some things with python too (code-completion
    for builtins and bicycle repair man integration), and it would be
    extremely simple to add some scripting capabilities with jython too, so,
    I don't really think you'd be tied to 'only java' -- altough its core
    will always be.

    >
    >John
    >
    >
    >


    Cheers,

    Fabio
    Fabio Zadrozny, Dec 5, 2005
    #17
  18. malv Guest

    As "bicycle repair man integration" keeps popping up as a distinct
    feature of jave-based PyDev, let it be known that other IDE's also have
    this.
    For example, non-java Eric has had " bicycle repair man" integration
    for a very long time.

    Personally, in spite of intense programming in python, I've never
    encountered a real need for the bicycle gimmick.
    malv, Dec 5, 2005
    #18
  19. John J. Lee wrote:

    >Fabio Zadrozny <> writes:
    >[...]
    >
    >
    >>I must also warn you that I'm its current maintainer, and it is *my*
    >>favorite IDE :)
    >>
    >>

    >[...]
    >
    >
    >>But in the end, as I said, it is a subjective matter, so, you'll have to
    >>decide it for yourself.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Hey, Fabio, can this be true:
    >
    >https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=15820
    >
    >|------- Comment #4 From Chris McLaren 2003-01-08 10:43 [reply] -------
    >|
    >|this is not a key bindings issue anymore - key bindings can be fully
    >|customized but vi emulation requires special support from the editor. closing
    >|this pr - best step is to try and lobby vi emulation to the draft proposal.
    >
    >
    >
    >They're kidding, right??? Can it be possible there's no free vi mode
    >for Eclipse?? If something so basic is missing from the core stuff,
    >gives me little hope emacs will be displaced as the Big Beast of
    >editors anytime soon...
    >
    >

    Well, I remember seeing one that was free (altough this was more than a
    year ago -- I don't really use vi, so, I searched it just out of
    curiosity), but if you searched and it was not found... I don't know,
    maybe its author decided to make it commercial? Still, I'm pretty sure
    there was one...

    >The basis in Java makes me worry a tiny bit too. First, Lisp plus the
    >'programmers scratch their own itch' model seems to have been very
    >successful in letting people Get the Job Done in Emacs. More
    >important, I fear licensing issues will keep away Emacs hackers who
    >might otherwise switch and make the platform more usable for other
    >Emacs refugees.
    >
    >
    >

    Being java, does not worry me that much... there are already many vms
    aside from suns (including gcj), and I think that if you do not want to
    program in java, adding scripting layers for jython, jruby, etc should
    be fairly easy (given that someone has the time to do it).

    >
    >John
    >
    >
    >

    Fabio
    Fabio Zadrozny, Dec 5, 2005
    #19
  20. malv wrote:

    >As "bicycle repair man integration" keeps popping up as a distinct
    >feature of jave-based PyDev, let it be known that other IDE's also have
    >this.
    >For example, non-java Eric has had " bicycle repair man" integration
    >for a very long time.
    >
    >Personally, in spite of intense programming in python, I've never
    >encountered a real need for the bicycle gimmick.
    >
    >
    >

    Hi...

    Yeap, bicycle repair man is used by many IDEs (that's what it was meant
    for, right)?
    As for refactoring, it is something you only miss after having used it
    (and yes, the one provided by bicycle repair man is still in its
    childhood when compared to tools available for java, but python
    compensates that in its ease of programming -- until a certain point,
    because if you had tools as good as the ones for java, it would make
    programming in python even more enjoyable). And sure, you can do it
    manually, but why bother when you have tools to do it?

    Cheers,

    Fabio
    Fabio Zadrozny, Dec 5, 2005
    #20
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