editors/IDEs

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Jamie Orchard-Hays, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby.
    I've been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all
    the completion.

    Thanks,
    Jamie
    Jamie Orchard-Hays, Nov 24, 2004
    #1
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  2. Jamie Orchard-Hays

    Phlip Guest

    Jamie Orchard-Hays wrote:

    > I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby.
    > I've been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all
    > the completion.


    >sigh<


    Scite.

    <a beat>

    I'm such a laaaamer! I'm a sucker for hitting <F5>, and a script just runs!

    --
    Phlip
    http://industrialxp.org/community/bin/view/Main/TestFirstUserInterfaces
    Phlip, Nov 24, 2004
    #2
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  3. On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:36:27 +0900
    Jamie Orchard-Hays <> wrote:

    > I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby.
    > I've been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all
    > the completion.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Jamie
    >
    >


    xemacs, can be configured to do everything you dream up, and has a package for everything I dreamt about ;)

    There was a thread on ruby-forum
    http://www.ruby-forum.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=72

    regards,

    brian

    --
    Brian Schröder
    http://www.brian-schroeder.de/
    Brian Schröder, Nov 24, 2004
    #3
  4. On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:36:27 +0900, Jamie Orchard-Hays wrote:

    > I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby. I've
    > been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all the
    > completion.


    TextMate (which I also used and have registered) does completion
    (based on what has alreay been typed in the file) and also has "snippets"
    where you can completely define the completion (even with placeholders...).

    Recommended (on OSX only though).
    Ollivier Robert, Nov 24, 2004
    #4
  5. On Nov 24, 2004, at 5:03 AM, Ollivier Robert wrote:

    > On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:36:27 +0900, Jamie Orchard-Hays wrote:
    >
    >> I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby.
    >> I've
    >> been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all the
    >> completion.

    >
    > TextMate (which I also used and have registered) does completion
    > (based on what has alreay been typed in the file) and also has
    > "snippets"
    > where you can completely define the completion (even with
    > placeholders...).
    >
    > Recommended (on OSX only though).


    I'm keeping an eye on TextMate. I'll even admit that it has some
    features that I could really get into, but...

    For my money, BBEdit is still king on Mac OS X. I've been using BBEdit
    for many years now and it's just hard to beat the raw power that it
    offers through an elegant interface, in my opinion.

    The "Find..." dialog in BBEdit is quite possibly perfect. It's a
    massive selection of options that allow you to quickly locate or change
    anything in the current file or a group of files you can specify
    countless different ways. Beyond that one dialog, there is a huge
    "Search" menu that complements it wonderfully. I need that everyday
    and couldn't live without it.

    BBEdit's "Markup" menu is a handy tool, the "Text" manipulation menu
    does most of the mundane tasks of text management for me, CVS and Unix
    script integration is smooth, the new "Text Factories" make mass
    editing trivial... I could go on and on.

    One thing that REALLY sets BBEdit apart from other GUI editors though
    is that you can have it anyway you like it. Open "Preferences..." and
    your eyes will bulge. It takes awhile to figure out what everything
    controls, but when you do, you'll edit in an environment customized to
    the way you think. You can change any menu keyboard shortcut and add
    your own. This means a lot to me. I want to edit how I want to edit,
    not how some designer thinks I should want to edit.

    To be fair, BBEdit's price tag comes with more than a little sticker
    shock, though for me it has been very worth it. Also, along the lines
    of the original post, BBEdit doesn't have an auto-completion feature
    (save Glossary items you build). Code folding, another popular topic
    here, is not yet implemented either.

    My vote is BBEdit, but I know how personal attachment to an editor is.
    Given that, I suggest that you try things out. Most editors offer some
    form of "demo". Find what speaks to you and use that.

    James Edward Gray II
    James Edward Gray II, Nov 24, 2004
    #5
  6. Hello Jamie,

    JOH> I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby.
    JOH> I've been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all
    JOH> the completion.

    I think that at the moment there are only 3 maybe 4 useable IDE's out
    there (i sorted them by personal preference :) :

    1) Arachno Ruby
    2) XEmacs
    3) VI
    4) RDE (?)

    At the moment none of them have completition (more then simple and unintelligent
    repeated text completition). Even the best Ruby IDE written by the
    best programmers with infinite time can't give you Code Insight that
    is working correctly in more then a few percent of your code. Same
    with refactoring. You are not using Java anymore so forget about most
    of the tools you used with Intellij. With ruby you changed technology,
    so you also have to change your tools and working style.

    What you can expect is a really good integration of "ri"/rubydoc.
    Unfortunately this is a very young technology that is now useable
    with 1.8.2. So maybe in a year or so the situation is getting a little bit
    better (for all IDE's that are under active development). At least for
    Arachno Ruby i can promise you that this will happen during the next
    spring/summer.


    --
    Best regards, emailto: scholz at scriptolutions dot com
    Lothar Scholz http://www.ruby-ide.com
    CTO Scriptolutions Ruby, PHP, Python IDE 's
    Lothar Scholz, Nov 24, 2004
    #6
  7. Jamie Orchard-Hays

    Zach Dennis Guest

    Lothar Scholz wrote:

    > Hello Jamie,
    >
    > JOH> I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby.
    > JOH> I've been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all
    > JOH> the completion.
    >
    > I think that at the moment there are only 3 maybe 4 useable IDE's out
    > there (i sorted them by personal preference :) :
    >
    > 1) Arachno Ruby
    > 2) XEmacs
    > 3) VI
    > 4) RDE (?)


    5) Eclipse w/the RDT plugin
    6) SciTe (no fancy features except code folding)
    7) Crimson Editor (no fancy features)
    8) Mondrian IDE

    Zach
    Zach Dennis, Nov 24, 2004
    #7
  8. My trial period on BBEdit 8 just ran out and it hasn't convinced me to buy
    it. It has a way of doing things that I don't quite like, though it is
    improved. It doesn't do completion either. So, in that sense it doesn't
    suite my purposes for Ruby either. I'm also surprised that its search tool
    is slower than BBEdit Lite's and doesn't cache the results like TextPad
    (Windoze tool) so it's faster the next time.

    TextMate is pretty cool, but rough around the edges. It's got the Ruby menu,
    but the last thing I want to do is use a menu-driven way of inserting
    methods, blocks, etc. It's horribly ineffecient to me. Type reach for the
    track pad, open menu, find, click. UGH! (Also something I don't like about
    BBEdit's html menus.) I'll definitely be keeping my eye on it. Hopefully
    they will get their emacs bindings straight.

    SubEthaEdit actually is a bit richer in terms of its key bindings that
    TextMate (the emacs bindings are better), but doesn't have the Ruby
    integration and notion of projects.

    My ideal editor would be something like TexMate with real completion ala irb
    with completion on and then an ability to click through to classes and
    methods, but now we're getting into IDE territory.

    Jamie




    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "James Edward Gray II" <>
    To: "ruby-talk ML" <>
    Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 10:49 AM
    Subject: Re: editors/IDEs


    > On Nov 24, 2004, at 5:03 AM, Ollivier Robert wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:36:27 +0900, Jamie Orchard-Hays wrote:
    >>
    >>> I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby. I've
    >>> been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all the
    >>> completion.

    >>
    >> TextMate (which I also used and have registered) does completion
    >> (based on what has alreay been typed in the file) and also has "snippets"
    >> where you can completely define the completion (even with
    >> placeholders...).
    >>
    >> Recommended (on OSX only though).

    >
    > I'm keeping an eye on TextMate. I'll even admit that it has some features
    > that I could really get into, but...
    >
    > For my money, BBEdit is still king on Mac OS X. I've been using BBEdit
    > for many years now and it's just hard to beat the raw power that it offers
    > through an elegant interface, in my opinion.
    >
    > The "Find..." dialog in BBEdit is quite possibly perfect. It's a massive
    > selection of options that allow you to quickly locate or change anything
    > in the current file or a group of files you can specify countless
    > different ways. Beyond that one dialog, there is a huge "Search" menu
    > that complements it wonderfully. I need that everyday and couldn't live
    > without it.
    >
    > BBEdit's "Markup" menu is a handy tool, the "Text" manipulation menu does
    > most of the mundane tasks of text management for me, CVS and Unix script
    > integration is smooth, the new "Text Factories" make mass editing
    > trivial... I could go on and on.
    >
    > One thing that REALLY sets BBEdit apart from other GUI editors though is
    > that you can have it anyway you like it. Open "Preferences..." and your
    > eyes will bulge. It takes awhile to figure out what everything controls,
    > but when you do, you'll edit in an environment customized to the way you
    > think. You can change any menu keyboard shortcut and add your own. This
    > means a lot to me. I want to edit how I want to edit, not how some
    > designer thinks I should want to edit.
    >
    > To be fair, BBEdit's price tag comes with more than a little sticker
    > shock, though for me it has been very worth it. Also, along the lines of
    > the original post, BBEdit doesn't have an auto-completion feature (save
    > Glossary items you build). Code folding, another popular topic here, is
    > not yet implemented either.
    >
    > My vote is BBEdit, but I know how personal attachment to an editor is.
    > Given that, I suggest that you try things out. Most editors offer some
    > form of "demo". Find what speaks to you and use that.
    >
    > James Edward Gray II
    >
    >
    Jamie Orchard-Hays, Nov 24, 2004
    #8
  9. VI is an IDE? LOL!

    So no editors/IDEs yet have the capability of irb -r irb/completion?

    Jamie


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Lothar Scholz" <>
    To: "ruby-talk ML" <>; <>
    Cc: "ruby-talk ML" <>
    Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 10:56 AM
    Subject: Re: editors/IDEs


    > Hello Jamie,
    >
    > JOH> I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby.
    > JOH> I've been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all
    > JOH> the completion.
    >
    > I think that at the moment there are only 3 maybe 4 useable IDE's out
    > there (i sorted them by personal preference :) :
    >
    > 1) Arachno Ruby
    > 2) XEmacs
    > 3) VI
    > 4) RDE (?)
    >
    > At the moment none of them have completition (more then simple and
    > unintelligent
    > repeated text completition). Even the best Ruby IDE written by the
    > best programmers with infinite time can't give you Code Insight that
    > is working correctly in more then a few percent of your code. Same
    > with refactoring. You are not using Java anymore so forget about most
    > of the tools you used with Intellij. With ruby you changed technology,
    > so you also have to change your tools and working style.
    >
    > What you can expect is a really good integration of "ri"/rubydoc.
    > Unfortunately this is a very young technology that is now useable
    > with 1.8.2. So maybe in a year or so the situation is getting a little bit
    > better (for all IDE's that are under active development). At least for
    > Arachno Ruby i can promise you that this will happen during the next
    > spring/summer.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Best regards, emailto: scholz at scriptolutions dot
    > com
    > Lothar Scholz http://www.ruby-ide.com
    > CTO Scriptolutions Ruby, PHP, Python IDE 's
    >
    >
    >
    Jamie Orchard-Hays, Nov 24, 2004
    #9
  10. On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Jamie Orchard-Hays wrote:

    > VI is an IDE? LOL!
    >

    Did you mention vim? Things to look at (help commands):
    :he complete
    Word completion based on what is in the buffer already
    :he compiler (see also :he make)
    collect error messages from programs and jump to those lines.
    :he syntax
    Syntax highlighting
    :he ai
    autoindent (see also :he si (smartindent))
    :he fdm
    foldmethod syntax
    :he matchit
    Allows jumping to next if...else...end case...when...else...end
    class...end (see also :he * (jump to next occurrence of word)

    In case that helps. Editor choice is very personal.
    Hugh
    Hugh Sasse Staff Elec Eng, Nov 24, 2004
    #10
  11. Zach Dennis wrote:
    > Lothar Scholz wrote:
    >>
    >> 1) Arachno Ruby
    >> 2) XEmacs
    >> 3) VI
    >> 4) RDE (?)

    >
    >
    > 5) Eclipse w/the RDT plugin
    > 6) SciTe (no fancy features except code folding)
    > 7) Crimson Editor (no fancy features)
    > 8) Mondrian IDE


    My ruby ide/editor history is
    1) xemacs
    2) eclipse, I've send patches for ruby code parse
    3) xemacs (eclipse's bad auto-identatation and vanishing ruby
    debugger
    plugin were intolerable
    4) arachno ruby. Great code browser, great find utilities, great
    editor, Very intuitive IDE, after small learning curve. I still
    miss hippie-expand functionality from xemacs

    - Ville

    >
    Ville Mattila, Nov 24, 2004
    #11
  12. Jamie Orchard-Hays <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby.
    > I've been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss all
    > the completion.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Jamie



    Dear Jamie,

    vim

    Regards,
    Benjamin

    P.S. To enable intellisense-style completion without the cumbersome
    external plugin, please send money and psychological pressure to Bram
    Moolenaar, the maintainer.
    Benjamin Peterson, Nov 24, 2004
    #12
  13. Hey all,

    How about my pet project? I haven't worked on it for close to an year,
    but its a Ruby IDE written entirely in ruby.

    ore.rubyforge.org

    HTH

    Archit

    On Thu, 2004-11-25 at 06:13 +0900, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
    > llisense-style compl
    Archit Baweja, Nov 24, 2004
    #13
  14. Jamie Orchard-Hays

    Richard Dale Guest

    Zach Dennis wrote:

    > Lothar Scholz wrote:
    >
    >> Hello Jamie,
    >>
    >> JOH> I'm curious what people are favoring for editors and IDEs for Ruby.
    >> JOH> I've been playing with TextMate, but coming from Intellij, I miss
    >> all JOH> the completion.
    >>
    >> I think that at the moment there are only 3 maybe 4 useable IDE's out
    >> there (i sorted them by personal preference :) :
    >>
    >> 1) Arachno Ruby
    >> 2) XEmacs
    >> 3) VI
    >> 4) RDE (?)

    >
    > 5) Eclipse w/the RDT plugin
    > 6) SciTe (no fancy features except code folding)
    > 7) Crimson Editor (no fancy features)
    > 8) Mondrian IDE

    Early days, but KDevelop in the KDE cvs HEAD is coming on nicely. It has a
    ruby source code debugger, class browser, Qt Designer RAD UI design
    integration and so on. It doesn't have ruby code completion yet though.

    -- Richard
    Richard Dale, Nov 24, 2004
    #14
  15. Lots of talk in this thread about editors/IDE's.
    If anybody care about editors/IDEs written entirely in Ruby (thus also
    scriptable in Ruby), please consider to support.

    AFAIK there exists these free open source projects

    Ruvi,
    Diakonos,
    FreeRIDE,
    Mondrian,
    AEditor

    These projects are written more or less entirely in Ruby.

    What is the future for Ruby based editors?

    --
    Simon Strandgaard
    Simon Strandgaard, Nov 24, 2004
    #15
  16. I may be totally off here, but isn't it possible to do something like irb
    completion inside jEdit using the hooks it gives to scripting and this
    scripting framework from Apache? I ask because I don't have the necessary
    amount of knowledge to do so myself neither the time at this present moment
    to look more into it, and this list is full of bright and *very* intelligent
    people.

    If you ask me, one of the main obstacles to either newbies or people coming
    from languages such as Java and/or other static languages to the Ruby world
    is the lack of something like auto-completion in the tools they used to use
    and know where they came from, like IntelliJ and Eclipse.The evils of
    intelli-sense style technology :)

    I know that given the dinaymic nature of Ruby it is very hard to do
    something like auto-completion, such was one topic some time ago here on the
    list, but what about some primitive completion like irb does?

    Pardon my ignorance on the subject and thanks for reading this.

    Cheers,

    Felipe

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "itsme213" <>
    Newsgroups: comp.lang.ruby
    To: "ruby-talk ML" <>
    Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:13 PM
    Subject: Re: editors/IDEs


    > > If anybody care about editors/IDEs written entirely in Ruby (thus also
    > > scriptable in Ruby)

    >
    > JEdit is written in Java, and is scriptable in Ruby.
    >
    > It has a plugn called Superscript which uses the Apache BSF framework to
    > interface to multiple scripting languages, and JRuby for the ruby version.

    I
    > got some small test scripts to work, accessing the view, text area,
    > selection, command-line console, etc.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    Felipe Malta de Oliveira, Nov 24, 2004
    #16
  17. On Nov 24, 2004, at 5:29 PM, Felipe Malta de Oliveira wrote:

    > I may be totally off here, but isn't it possible to do something like
    > irb
    > completion inside jEdit using the hooks it gives to scripting and this
    > scripting framework from Apache? I ask because I don't have the
    > necessary
    > amount of knowledge to do so myself neither the time at this present
    > moment
    > to look more into it, and this list is full of bright and *very*
    > intelligent
    > people.
    >


    We discussed this just a month ago:
    http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/117836

    Rob got it working in JEdit, but he's said it's pretty bloody slow.

    Francis Hwang
    http://fhwang.net/
    Francis Hwang, Nov 24, 2004
    #17
  18. Hello Felipe,

    FMdO> If you ask me, one of the main obstacles to either newbies or people coming
    FMdO> from languages such as Java and/or other static languages to the Ruby world
    FMdO> is the lack of something like auto-completion in the tools they used to use
    FMdO> and know where they came from, like IntelliJ and Eclipse.The evils of
    FMdO> intelli-sense style technology :)

    FMdO> I know that given the dinaymic nature of Ruby it is very hard to do
    FMdO> something like auto-completion, such was one topic some time ago here on the
    FMdO> list, but what about some primitive completion like irb does?

    Okay i will write an article about this over christmas, because i
    spend a full week (fulltime + spare time) where i was doing nothing then
    thinking about this intelli-sense problem, trying to find a heuristic
    for adhoc analysis of ruby source code.

    You can't compare irb with an editor when it comes to completion. They
    are completely different worlds. In irb you can simply look at the
    type of the variable you work with but this is easy to implement. But
    in a text editor you have no hint except to look at the source
    code.

    As a homework assignment take a file from a standart library that you
    dont now very well, remove all comments and then pick up some code
    randomly and find out which type (or types) a vaiable at that place can
    hold. Doing this, even with human intelligence is hard. After this try
    to find computable rules about how you found it, then you will understand
    the problem much better. It's just a 10 min excercise and a good way
    to get a feel for ruby.

    If you are allready an experienced ruby programmer take the file
    "tk.rb" and try to do the same without asking Nobu.

    There are some advanced features that may make it possible to give
    better results (feedback analysis in a way modern profiler use it).
    But these are very far away in the future.

    --
    Best regards, emailto: scholz at scriptolutions dot com
    Lothar Scholz http://www.ruby-ide.com
    CTO Scriptolutions Ruby, PHP, Python IDE 's
    Lothar Scholz, Nov 24, 2004
    #18
  19. ArachnoRuby is awesome. I now use it all the time on Windows. On the
    Mac, I use VIM and am now looking at TextMate, which looks elegant and
    inuitive. I plan to look at FreeRide again next release.

    Nick

    Ville Mattila wrote:

    > Zach Dennis wrote:
    >
    >> Lothar Scholz wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> 1) Arachno Ruby
    >>> 2) XEmacs
    >>> 3) VI
    >>> 4) RDE (?)

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> 5) Eclipse w/the RDT plugin
    >> 6) SciTe (no fancy features except code folding)
    >> 7) Crimson Editor (no fancy features)
    >> 8) Mondrian IDE

    >
    >
    > My ruby ide/editor history is
    > 1) xemacs
    > 2) eclipse, I've send patches for ruby code parse
    > 3) xemacs (eclipse's bad auto-identatation and vanishing ruby debugger
    > plugin were intolerable
    > 4) arachno ruby. Great code browser, great find utilities, great
    > editor, Very intuitive IDE, after small learning curve. I still
    > miss hippie-expand functionality from xemacs
    >
    > - Ville
    >
    >>

    >
    Nicholas Van Weerdenburg, Nov 26, 2004
    #19
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