Educational Software

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Gaijinco, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. Gaijinco

    Gaijinco Guest

    Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
    about programming?
    Gaijinco, Nov 8, 2005
    #1
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  2. In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <> wrote:

    > Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
    > about programming?


    Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
    reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

    If you're looking for a general introduction to programming, I'm
    afraid you've asked your question in the wrong place(s).
    comp.programming may be appropriate.

    --
    Christopher Benson-Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
    ataru(at)cyberspace.org | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.
    Christopher Benson-Manica, Nov 8, 2005
    #2
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  3. Gaijinco

    Richard Bos Guest

    Christopher Benson-Manica <> wrote:

    > In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <> wrote:
    >
    > > Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
    > > about programming?

    >
    > Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
    > reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.


    Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
    already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
    even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
    Pascal.

    Richard
    Richard Bos, Nov 9, 2005
    #3
  4. Richard Bos wrote:
    > Christopher Benson-Manica <> wrote:
    >
    > > In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
    > > > about programming?

    > >
    > > Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
    > > reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

    >
    > Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
    > already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
    > even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
    > Pascal.


    TROLL ALERT.


    Jonathan
    Jonathan Mcdougall, Nov 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Jonathan Mcdougall said:

    >
    > Richard Bos wrote:
    >> Christopher Benson-Manica <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> > > Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people
    >> > > learn about programming?
    >> >
    >> > Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
    >> > reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

    >>
    >> Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
    >> already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
    >> even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
    >> Pascal.

    >
    > TROLL ALERT.


    Good. If we must have trolls, I suppose they should at least keep awake.

    Seriously, what makes you think Richard Bos is a troll? His advice to learn
    programming using a language designed as a teaching language (such as
    Pascal) is spot on. Sure, you wouldn't use Pascal in the real world (Delphi
    aside for a minute), but then you wouldn't sit in a classroom in the real
    world either - and yet the classroom makes sense in an educational context.
    So does Pascal. Let people move on to C when they have learn a bit about
    how to program.


    --
    Richard Heathfield
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
    http://www.cpax.org.uk
    email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
    Richard Heathfield, Nov 9, 2005
    #5
  6. Gaijinco

    mlimber Guest

    Richard Bos wrote:
    > Christopher Benson-Manica <> wrote:
    >
    > > In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
    > > > about programming?

    > >
    > > Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
    > > reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

    >
    > Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
    > already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
    > even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
    > Pascal.
    >
    > Richard


    The book of choice for learning C++ is _Accelerated C++_ by Koenig and
    Moo. See the FAQ for more suggestions:

    http://www.parashift.com/c -faq-lite/how-to-learn-cpp.html

    Cheers! --M
    mlimber, Nov 9, 2005
    #6
  7. Gaijinco

    Flash Gordon Guest

    Richard Heathfield wrote:
    > Jonathan Mcdougall said:
    >
    >> Richard Bos wrote:
    >>> Christopher Benson-Manica <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people
    >>>>> learn about programming?
    >>>> Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
    >>>> reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.
    >>> Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
    >>> already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
    >>> even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
    >>> Pascal.

    >> TROLL ALERT.

    >
    > Good. If we must have trolls, I suppose they should at least keep awake.
    >
    > Seriously, what makes you think Richard Bos is a troll? His advice to learn
    > programming using a language designed as a teaching language (such as
    > Pascal) is spot on.


    Agreed.

    > Sure, you wouldn't use Pascal in the real world (Delphi
    > aside for a minute),


    Actually, there have been several Pascal implementations targeting
    embedded systems which I and others have used very successfully. I've
    also used HP Pascal for some significant and very successful projects.

    All these Pascals had extensions which we used, but then the same goes
    for C. I *prefer* C, but within at least certain limitations Pascal can
    and is used in the real world.

    > but then you wouldn't sit in a classroom in the real
    > world either - and yet the classroom makes sense in an educational context.
    > So does Pascal.


    Pascal can also make sense in the real world.

    > Let people move on to C when they have learn a bit about
    > how to program.


    This I agree with.
    --
    Flash Gordon
    Living in interesting times.
    Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it.
    Flash Gordon, Nov 9, 2005
    #7
  8. In article <dkssei$5fb$-infra.bt.com>,
    Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    [OT]
    >Sure, you wouldn't use Pascal in the real world (Delphi
    >aside for a minute),


    I used to work for a company that did a major project in Pascal.
    They did end up making compiler extensions for the equivilent of
    include files (including precompilation), and (IIRC) another extension to
    convert an integer address into a pointer [for direct device access].
    They added in a mutex library call.

    The header files bit was an important extension for project management
    purposes.

    Most of the developers never needed direct device access.
    The mutex call was hidden in a message passing queuing / dequeing
    part of operations, so most of the developers never saw that level.

    Thus, from the perspective of the developers, there was a minor wart
    to include header files, and the rest of the changes were pretty much
    transparent... apparently Just Plain Pascal.
    --
    Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? It hath
    been already of old time, which was before us. -- Ecclesiastes
    Walter Roberson, Nov 9, 2005
    #8
  9. Gaijinco

    Richard Bos Guest

    "Jonathan Mcdougall" <> wrote:

    > Richard Bos wrote:
    > > Christopher Benson-Manica <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
    > > > > about programming?
    > > >
    > > > Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
    > > > reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

    > >
    > > Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
    > > already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
    > > even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
    > > Pascal.

    >
    > TROLL ALERT.


    Care to explain what you base that exclamation on?

    Richard
    Richard Bos, Nov 10, 2005
    #9
  10. Gaijinco

    Gaijinco Guest

    No, I'm thinking more about a program to teach you how to program.
    Gaijinco, Nov 10, 2005
    #10
  11. Gaijinco

    Greg Comeau Guest

    In article <4all.nl>,
    Richard Bos <> wrote:
    >Christopher Benson-Manica <> wrote:
    >> In comp.lang.c Gaijinco <> wrote:
    >> > Does anyone knows any educational software aimmed to help people learn
    >> > about programming?

    >>
    >> Sure. Your friendly C or C++ compiler, in conjunction with a good
    >> reference such as K&R2, is a fine way to learn about programming.

    >
    >Beg to differ. It's a fine way to learn about programming in C if you
    >already know how to program. C is not suitable as a first language; C++
    >even less. Start with a language that will teach you discipline, such as
    >Pascal.


    IMO Pascal may appear to "teach discipline" but if we're really
    going to compare it against C, it really is a wash: people write
    programs and as many of the same issues can be used in instruction
    of both. That said, K&R2 has some unique aspects, and can certainly
    be used in conjunction with whatever other resources are being used
    for C programming.
    --
    Greg Comeau / Celebrating 20 years of Comeauity!
    Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
    World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
    Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
    Greg Comeau, Nov 11, 2005
    #11
  12. Gaijinco

    Greg Comeau Guest

    In article <dkssei$5fb$-infra.bt.com>,
    Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    >you wouldn't use Pascal in the real world (Delphi
    >aside for a minute),


    But many people do.

    >but then you wouldn't sit in a classroom in the real
    >world either - and yet the classroom makes sense in an educational context.


    Have to disagree here. I mean, sure, lots of "classroom" is artificial,
    but not all is.

    >So does Pascal. Let people move on to C when they have learn a bit about
    >how to program.


    Maybe.
    --
    Greg Comeau / Celebrating 20 years of Comeauity!
    Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
    World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
    Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
    Greg Comeau, Nov 11, 2005
    #12
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