emacs Vs Eclipse?

Discussion in 'Java' started by slowCoder, Oct 5, 2004.

  1. slowCoder

    slowCoder Guest

    Hello everyone,
    Is there a discussion on emacs vs eclipse? Are there any advantages of
    emacs over eclipse?

    I'm a grad student and I've been using emacs for over 6 years ( it was
    the first thing I ever tried and it worked for me). Recently, I had to
    "take over" a project and improve it. I didn't have the
    design/documentation. The only thing I had was the code ( about 500
    java files, 55 packages and 112kloc) developed over 5 years (yes, it
    is a research project).

    Using eclipse helped me quickly understand the code. Eclipse helped me
    efficiently search/navigate between files and methods. I found the
    eclipse ide to be more powerful than the emacs-ide
    (http://jdee.sunsite.dk/).

    Given that eclipse has plugins for C/Java/Latex and runs on Linux/Win,
    I don't see a reason why I should stick with emacs.

    I would like to know why emacs-users (who have also tried eclipse) are
    still sticking with emacs ?

    An Eclipse Convert.
    slowCoder, Oct 5, 2004
    #1
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  2. slowCoder

    Virgil Green Guest

    "slowCoder" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello everyone,
    > Is there a discussion on emacs vs eclipse? Are there any advantages of
    > emacs over eclipse?
    >
    > I'm a grad student and I've been using emacs for over 6 years ( it was
    > the first thing I ever tried and it worked for me). Recently, I had to
    > "take over" a project and improve it. I didn't have the
    > design/documentation. The only thing I had was the code ( about 500
    > java files, 55 packages and 112kloc) developed over 5 years (yes, it
    > is a research project).
    >
    > Using eclipse helped me quickly understand the code. Eclipse helped me
    > efficiently search/navigate between files and methods. I found the
    > eclipse ide to be more powerful than the emacs-ide
    > (http://jdee.sunsite.dk/).
    >
    > Given that eclipse has plugins for C/Java/Latex and runs on Linux/Win,
    > I don't see a reason why I should stick with emacs.
    >
    > I would like to know why emacs-users (who have also tried eclipse) are
    > still sticking with emacs ?
    >
    > An Eclipse Convert.


    I would expect to find little substantive discussion about the merits of one
    over the other. One or the other is going to fit your coding style and
    organizational requirements better than the other. I say, pick the one you
    like best and go forward. I just don't see much point in such a discussion.

    - Virgil
    Virgil Green, Oct 5, 2004
    #2
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  3. slowCoder

    Klaus Berndl Guest

    On 5 Oct 2004, wrote:

    > Hello everyone,
    > Is there a discussion on emacs vs eclipse? Are there any advantages of
    > emacs over eclipse?
    >
    > I'm a grad student and I've been using emacs for over 6 years ( it was
    > the first thing I ever tried and it worked for me). Recently, I had to
    > "take over" a project and improve it. I didn't have the
    > design/documentation. The only thing I had was the code ( about 500
    > java files, 55 packages and 112kloc) developed over 5 years (yes, it
    > is a research project).
    >
    > Using eclipse helped me quickly understand the code. Eclipse helped me
    > efficiently search/navigate between files and methods. I found the
    > eclipse ide to be more powerful than the emacs-ide
    > (http://jdee.sunsite.dk/).
    >
    > Given that eclipse has plugins for C/Java/Latex and runs on Linux/Win,
    > I don't see a reason why I should stick with emacs.
    >
    > I would like to know why emacs-users (who have also tried eclipse) are
    > still sticking with emacs ?


    Have you ever tried Emacs with the ECB (Emacs Code browser)? See
    http://ecb.sf.net Well, i admit, the underlying parsing-engine of CEDET
    (http://cedet.sf.net) need some additional work to fulfill all needs but for
    many cases it works already now like a charm.

    ECB itself needs also some further enhancements especially for browsing big
    class-hierarchies but in general ECB offers you already a lot what you need to
    navigate fast and efficient through source-code and understand it.

    Klaus

    >
    > An Eclipse Convert.


    --
    Klaus Berndl mailto:
    sd&m AG http://www.sdm.de
    software design & management
    Carl-Wery-Str. 42, 81739 Muenchen, Germany
    Tel +49 89 63812-392, Fax -220
    Klaus Berndl, Oct 5, 2004
    #3
  4. slowCoder

    Will Hartung Guest

    "slowCoder" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Using eclipse helped me quickly understand the code. Eclipse helped me
    > efficiently search/navigate between files and methods. I found the
    > eclipse ide to be more powerful than the emacs-ide
    > (http://jdee.sunsite.dk/).
    >
    > Given that eclipse has plugins for C/Java/Latex and runs on Linux/Win,
    > I don't see a reason why I should stick with emacs.
    >
    > I would like to know why emacs-users (who have also tried eclipse) are
    > still sticking with emacs ?


    Because it works the way I want it to work, and it's worked that way for the
    past 10 years.

    I don't use the Java IDE for emacs at all. I use syntax coloring,
    auto-indent, and auto reformat. It lets me easily type my code, and not
    kibitz it with every single key stroke. It lets me run ant and find my
    errors quickly, it lets my mouse stay in the drawer where it belongs. I have
    no problem navigating large source trees with it. It keeps the project
    management out of the editor, where it belongs IMHO, letting the project
    management be whatever it want's to be.

    Here, we've basically standardized on Ant, and let anyone choose whichever
    editor et al they wish. We have Visual Studio folks, NetBeans, Eclipse,
    IDEA, old JRun Studio, and jEdit folks here, as well as me, the lone emacs
    guy. I think I'm the only one who has bothered to jump through the non-hoops
    to get something as simple as being able to jump to syntax errors spit out
    from Ant (ant -emacs -find). I don't know what the others do, but they all
    run ant from a second window.

    If I want to crawl through source code, emacs can do it, or I can use the
    shell. If I want wizards, I've got those in the awk scripts I've developed
    over time.

    I have enough of an investment in emacs that it is painful and expensive for
    me to switch to something else, yet it is adaptable enough to let me work
    productively in all sorts of environments, with all sorts of languages. It
    also makes for a comfortable marriage withouth having to look to jump
    bandwagons every 6 months as the Next NEW! IMPROVED!! Best things comes
    along.

    About the only thing it lacks is refactoring, but that doesn't slow me down
    that much I don't think, and, heck, the jdee may even have it. I'm not
    really missing it.

    I'm glad that Eclipse works for you, but I've tried it, and for me, emacs is
    a better fit. YMMV.

    > An Eclipse Convert.


    An Emacs Grognard.

    Regards,

    Will Hartung
    ()
    Will Hartung, Oct 5, 2004
    #4
  5. slowCoder

    William Xuuu Guest

    (slowCoder) writes:

    > Hello everyone,
    > Is there a discussion on emacs vs eclipse? Are there any advantages of
    > emacs over eclipse?
    >
    > I'm a grad student and I've been using emacs for over 6 years ( it was
    > the first thing I ever tried and it worked for me). Recently, I had to
    > "take over" a project and improve it. I didn't have the
    > design/documentation. The only thing I had was the code ( about 500
    > java files, 55 packages and 112kloc) developed over 5 years (yes, it
    > is a research project).
    >
    > Using eclipse helped me quickly understand the code. Eclipse helped me
    > efficiently search/navigate between files and methods. I found the
    > eclipse ide to be more powerful than the emacs-ide
    > (http://jdee.sunsite.dk/).
    >
    > Given that eclipse has plugins for C/Java/Latex and runs on Linux/Win,
    > I don't see a reason why I should stick with emacs.
    >
    > I would like to know why emacs-users (who have also tried eclipse) are
    > still sticking with emacs ?
    >
    > An Eclipse Convert.


    Some people said that eclipse is so nice that it's going to replace
    Emacs. Out of curiosity and suspect, I've tried eclipse for a while. Well,
    it really drove me crazy, who has been used to Emacs. There are so many
    menus, options, windows... ooh, look, How much spaces are there left for
    the main edit space ? Emacs is nearly an OS, eclipse is far from it. Emacs
    has elisp. Ecplise can't even run on console, can it?...... Ecplise may has
    some advantages, but i would still stick with Emacs.

    --
    William Xuuu
    Humans remove heyyy_ from the email address to reply.
    William Xuuu, Oct 5, 2004
    #5
  6. slowCoder

    Jacob Guest

    slowCoder wrote:

    > Is there a discussion on emacs vs eclipse? Are there any advantages of
    > emacs over eclipse?


    I have used Eclipse and IntelliJ/IDEA but stick to Emacs.

    While the two has some nice features, especially on
    refactoring, Emacs is way ahead when it comes to pure
    editing control, which is what I do 95% of the time
    anyway.
    Jacob, Oct 5, 2004
    #6
  7. slowCoder

    Ville Vainio Guest

    >>>>> "sloowcoderr" == slowCoder <> writes:

    sloowcoderr> I would like to know why emacs-users (who have also
    sloowcoderr> tried eclipse) are still sticking with emacs ?

    Eclipse CDT editor doesn't support the Whitesmith indentation style
    (which is practically mandatory for Symbian C++ development) yet. I
    guess that's about it for me. Customizing the emacs indentation style
    is somewhat easy, while I have absolutely no idea how to do that in
    eclipse, if possible at all. Running an indentation tool
    after-the-fact doesn't feel appealing.

    Also, the Python plugin, pydev, isn't perfectly stable quite yet. It's
    pretty good already, though, and I've been trying to have the
    discipline to launch it instead of emacs to edit my python scripts.

    If you are programming in Java, Eclipse is a no-brainer. For some, it
    might be a reason to *choose* Java in the first place.

    --
    Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb
    Ville Vainio, Oct 5, 2004
    #7
  8. slowCoder

    Ville Vainio Guest

    >>>>> "William" == William Xuuu <> writes:

    William> menus, options, windows... ooh, look, How much spaces are
    William> there left for the main edit space ? Emacs is nearly an
    William> OS, eclipse is far from it. Emacs

    ctrl+m helps there (maximizes the edit window). Eclipse actually feels
    much less cluttered than the other IDEs I've tried.

    William> has elisp. Ecplise can't even run on console, can
    William> it?...... Ecplise may has

    Running in a console is not a priority for me anymore - actually, I
    tend to launch "jed" every time I want to edit something quickly in a
    console.

    I'm a long time emacs user. The following article was an eye-opener,
    of a sort, for me:

    http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca/opinions/editors.html

    --
    Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb
    Ville Vainio, Oct 5, 2004
    #8
  9. slowCoder

    Will Hartung Guest

    "Ville Vainio" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'm a long time emacs user. The following article was an eye-opener,
    > of a sort, for me:
    >
    > http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca/opinions/editors.html


    He's abandoning emacs for a whole slew of reasons that simply do not affect
    me, nor, I would say, most emacs users.

    I just use the darn thing. I don't write it, maintain it, extend it, or get
    involved in its politics.

    Regards,

    Will Hartung
    ()
    Will Hartung, Oct 6, 2004
    #9
  10. Ville Vainio wrote:
    > Eclipse CDT editor doesn't support the Whitesmith indentation style
    > (which is practically mandatory for Symbian C++ development) yet. I


    Of course it does.

    > guess that's about it for me. Customizing the emacs indentation style
    > is somewhat easy, while I have absolutely no idea how to do that in
    > eclipse, if possible at all.


    Then you haven't bothered to try and find out because that's a matter
    of opening the help window and typing in "indentation".

    And to think that it's usually emacs that's being touted as the ultimate
    tool which you just have to invest a bit of time to learn... Apparently
    that investment is so big and difficult to acquire that its users become
    scared of even the tiniest little effort that might lead them away from it :)
    Michael Borgwardt, Oct 6, 2004
    #10
  11. slowCoder

    Ville Vainio Guest

    >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Borgwardt <> writes:

    Michael> Ville Vainio wrote:

    >> Eclipse CDT editor doesn't support the Whitesmith indentation
    >> style (which is practically mandatory for Symbian C++
    >> development) yet. I


    Michael> Of course it does.

    Great. How can I enable it? Note that I'm talking about CDT, not JDT.


    Michael> Then you haven't bothered to try and find out because
    Michael> that's a matter of opening the help window and typing in
    Michael> "indentation".

    Tried that, didn't help. I'm running the most recent eclipse. Java
    plugin has some "Code formatter" options, CDT plugin doesn't.

    Michael> of time to learn... Apparently that investment is so big
    Michael> and difficult to acquire that its users become scared of
    Michael> even the tiniest little effort that might lead them away
    Michael> from it :)

    Any pointers where that "tiny" effort should be directed is
    appreciated.

    --
    Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb
    Ville Vainio, Oct 6, 2004
    #11
  12. Ville Vainio wrote:
    > >> Eclipse CDT editor doesn't support the Whitesmith indentation
    > >> style (which is practically mandatory for Symbian C++
    > >> development) yet. I

    >
    > Michael> Of course it does.
    >
    > Great. How can I enable it? Note that I'm talking about CDT, not JDT.


    *groan*

    Forget what I said. I read this in a Java newsgroup and wasn't aware what
    CDT is...
    Michael Borgwardt, Oct 6, 2004
    #12
  13. slowCoder

    Sudsy Guest

    Michael Borgwardt wrote:
    <snip>
    > And to think that it's usually emacs that's being touted as the ultimate
    > tool which you just have to invest a bit of time to learn... Apparently
    > that investment is so big and difficult to acquire that its users become
    > scared of even the tiniest little effort that might lead them away from
    > it :)


    Some very interesting opinions expressed on this thread. While I've
    never embraced emacs, the most productive developer I've ever met
    was a genius and had an emacs development environment second-to-none.
    Nobody else could use his system, what with the custom key bindings
    and all, but you couldn't fault his approach.
    Eclipse isn't perfect (yet!) but XDoclet inclusion makes it a very
    attractive alternative to vi (my stalwart ally).
    Firing up the IDE is overkill in those situations where you just want
    to make minor changes but the build tools make it worthwhile (IMHO)
    when you need to create ears or wars for deployment.
    As always, YMMV.

    --
    Java/J2EE/UNIX consulting and remote development.
    Sudsy, Oct 6, 2004
    #13
  14. slowCoder

    Galen Boyer Guest

    On Wed, 06 Oct 2004, wrote:

    > Firing up the IDE is overkill in those situations where you
    > just want to make minor changes


    As a fairly long time Emacs user, I don't "fire it up" to do
    anything. I just always have it open and do everything in it,
    and I mean everything. Thats the appeal but probably why its
    also hated by those that don't like it. I guess, everytime
    someone asks a "which editor/environment" question Emacs users
    always chime in and answer, Emacs. Almost everything can be done
    in Emacs, and this can probably get annoying to the guy that
    already loves his editor, especially when the convo degrades into
    tit-for-tat editor capabilities.

    I do know this, I have eclipse available as well and I "fire it
    up" when I need to debug the j2ee app I'm involved in building,
    cause Emac's GUI debugger for java is flaky. When I use it, it's
    certainly easy for this eclipse newbie to find one's way around
    eclipse, which isn't something that Emacs can claim, for newbies
    anyways.

    But, as Paul Kunnican, the author of the JDE has stated, if you
    are already "in the church", the JDE gives the Emacs user another
    reason not to leave Emacs. So, if you like Emacs and you are
    coding java, make sure you check out,

    http://jdee.sunsite.dk/

    --
    Galen Boyer
    Galen Boyer, Oct 6, 2004
    #14
  15. Ville Vainio <> writes:

    [...]
    > I'm a long time emacs user. The following article was an eye-opener,
    > of a sort, for me:
    >
    > http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca/opinions/editors.html

    [...]

    Could you expand on why you found that article convincing? To be
    honest, it seems a bit schizophrenic to me. I can make sense of it, if
    I read it as a statement of personal, idiosyncratic preferences.
    That's o.k., I have my own, different idiosyncracies. But I don't
    understand how that could convince anybody else.

    I mean: o.k. there is that part about the author's quirks with RMS and
    the FSF. Fine for him. Others might agree. I don't care. I am happy
    with both RMS and the FSF. At any rate I fail to see the technical
    point here.

    O.k. there is that part about Python being nicer than Lisp. This comes
    a bit as a surprise to me, since the author first states: "In fact,
    this Lisp was more than once the language in which I chose to express,
    extensively, the algorithmic solution of some problems which were
    somehow related to editing tasks." Then he goes on to complain about
    the fact that Emacs Lisp does not lend itself very well for tasks not
    immediately related to Emacs-the-editor. I can agree with that so
    far. Later on he ditches Lisp in favour of Python and complains about
    how bad Emacs supports Python. Again, fine for him if he prefers
    Python. I don't. IMO, this boils down to the ancient
    what-is-the-best-language-of-the-world issue. Surely interesting, but
    IMO hardly a very convincing argument against Emacs.

    Except, one would reason from this that Emacs should support multiple
    extension languages like Vim supposedly does. The author himself can
    hardly argue for this, because he complains about the already existing
    complexity of Emacs. Now Emacs Lisp is not just an extension language,
    it is a language in which the program itself is implemented[1].
    Supporting multiple extension languages equally in this way would
    *boost* Emacs' complexity, assuming that it is feasible at all.

    Maybe I can make sense of the argument, if it is meant to convince that
    Vim's design is better: being restrictive in the jobs it attempts to
    do and leave everything else to other programs. Maybe I can force
    myself to gain some understanding how that could convince somebody to
    switch to Vim. But to Eclipse? Honestly!

    Speaking of it, there is his introductory point about Emacs'
    complexity which has become too much for him, as he states. (The text
    is btw. quite of date in a few points, but anyways ...) He does not provide
    many technically relevant examples. I agree that the display engine is
    arcane stuff. Personally, I have completely failed to understand it.
    Maybe Mule is also difficult, I don't know. However, for both there
    does not seem to be a lack of people who are able to deal with it. (I
    was not there, but I could imagine that implementing UTF-8 as new
    internal format has been the source for a lot of headaches. But hey!
    we are talking about reaping out the internal representation of text
    in a large program that is focused on text and replacing it with
    something entirely different. Name one similar programming project
    where something like that has been easy!)

    Well, of course, if you want to grok *all of Emacs*, then you are in
    serious trouble. I just don't see why anybody would want that. I
    dare to say that there is not a single person in the world which
    understands and has an overview over *all* of Emacs. The charm is
    that this is not necessary. It is one of the strength of its design,
    that Emacs may grow rather organically.


    Oliver

    Footnotes:
    [1] That Elisp is both, is a critical part of Emacs' design.
    This---together with the interactive nature of the language---is what
    makes the difference between an Emacs in the generic sense and an
    Emacs-like editor.


    --
    15 Vendémiaire an 213 de la Révolution
    Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité!
    Oliver Scholz, Oct 6, 2004
    #15
  16. slowCoder

    Will Hartung Guest

    "Oliver Scholz" <> wrote in message
    news:-berlin.de...
    > Ville Vainio <> writes:
    >
    > [...]
    > > I'm a long time emacs user. The following article was an eye-opener,
    > > of a sort, for me:
    > >
    > > http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca/opinions/editors.html

    > [...]
    >
    > Could you expand on why you found that article convincing? To be
    > honest, it seems a bit schizophrenic to me. I can make sense of it, if
    > I read it as a statement of personal, idiosyncratic preferences.
    > That's o.k., I have my own, different idiosyncracies. But I don't
    > understand how that could convince anybody else.


    It didn't make any sense to me, as I don't see why one has to understand the
    core deep implementation details of a tool to actually use it.

    Take, for example, the Emacs JDE. The author of the JDE may need to
    understand the intricacies of Emacs, but I sure don't.

    I've been using emacs forever, and I simply don't use a VAST majority of its
    capability. I don't use shell buffers, for example. I don't use GNUS, etc.

    My .emacs file has TWO LINES that I put there on my own volition (one sets
    the tab size to 4, the other disables ^X^C). It has a few more that the JDE
    wanted when I installed it (even though I don't use it myself anymore).

    I'm sure that the author of this article, as a maintainer of emacs, had a
    much different view of the system than I do. He was involved in the politics
    of emacs, I'm just an unbiased happy user.

    So, as a testament that you can pretty much use emacs out of the box with
    little fidgeting about, *wave* that's me.

    Oh, and my emacs binary was compiled in 1999...I've never bothered to update
    it.

    Regards,

    Will Hartung
    ()
    Will Hartung, Oct 6, 2004
    #16
  17. slowCoder

    Ann Guest

    "slowCoder" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello everyone,
    > Is there a discussion on emacs vs eclipse? Are there any advantages of
    > emacs over eclipse?
    >
    > I'm a grad student and I've been using emacs for over 6 years ( it was
    > the first thing I ever tried and it worked for me). Recently, I had to
    > "take over" a project and improve it. I didn't have the
    > design/documentation. The only thing I had was the code ( about 500
    > java files, 55 packages and 112kloc) developed over 5 years (yes, it
    > is a research project).
    >
    > Using eclipse helped me quickly understand the code. Eclipse helped me
    > efficiently search/navigate between files and methods. I found the
    > eclipse ide to be more powerful than the emacs-ide
    > (http://jdee.sunsite.dk/).
    >
    > Given that eclipse has plugins for C/Java/Latex and runs on Linux/Win,
    > I don't see a reason why I should stick with emacs.
    >
    > I would like to know why emacs-users (who have also tried eclipse) are
    > still sticking with emacs ?
    >
    > An Eclipse Convert.


    I used emacs in the early 1980's for a couple of years
    untill my left pinky fell off from having to press the <ctrl>
    key all the time.
    Ann, Oct 6, 2004
    #17
  18. (slowCoder) writes:

    > Given that eclipse has plugins for C/Java/Latex and runs on Linux/Win,
    > I don't see a reason why I should stick with emacs.


    You are aware that there exist text formats other than C, Java and
    LaTeX, and platforms other than Linux and MS-Windows?

    I like to use the same text editor for all kinds of text, including
    mail and news messages, and on all platforms. And I want it to have
    enough knowledge of all the different text formats to allow me to
    concentrate on the content, rather than syntactical or editor specific
    issues.
    Per Abrahamsen, Oct 7, 2004
    #18
  19. slowCoder

    Ville Vainio Guest

    >>>>> "Oliver" == Oliver Scholz <> writes:

    Oliver> Ville Vainio <> writes:
    Oliver> [...]

    >> I'm a long time emacs user. The following article was an eye-opener,
    >> of a sort, for me:
    >>
    >> http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca/opinions/editors.html

    Oliver> [...]

    Oliver> Could you expand on why you found that article convincing?

    It provided a more "inside" perpective to the emacs development, and
    suggests that the development won't be accelerating any time soon. For
    me, an important part of the appeal of emacs has been the
    "future-proof" quality, but if the development is stagnating, well, it
    just doesn't feel that future-proof anymore.

    Oliver> That's o.k., I have my own, different idiosyncracies. But
    Oliver> I don't understand how that could convince anybody else.

    It depends on one's idiosyncracies, I guess. I don't think the article
    is aimed at "convincing" anyone - what would be the point, anyway? One
    might hope that the critique of emacs (or the state of it) might lead
    to some discussions in the emacs developer community, perhaps even a
    "renaissance" of some sort, reunification of emacs and xemacs, and
    world peace (that'll be the day).

    Oliver> far. Later on he ditches Lisp in favour of Python and
    Oliver> complains about how bad Emacs supports Python. Again,
    Oliver> fine for him if he prefers Python. I don't. IMO, this
    Oliver> boils down to the ancient
    Oliver> what-is-the-best-language-of-the-world issue. Surely
    Oliver> interesting, but IMO hardly a very convincing argument
    Oliver> against Emacs.

    I also prefer Python, by far. If emacs was in Python, it would have
    *much* more contributors and extensions. Lisp is an integral part of
    the emacs community, and that's probably not going to change, so I,
    like the author of the article, did some soul-searching and wondered
    whether emacs is where I want to be in the future. I'm going to keep
    on using it until Eclipse matures up a bit more, which might take a
    few years, but I'm trying to refrain from getting too involved with
    configuration and implementation of extensions.

    I don't particularly like Java, or consider it a better editor
    extension language than elisp, but with Eclipse I think the *need* to
    hack the editor is lower.

    --
    Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb
    Ville Vainio, Oct 7, 2004
    #19
  20. "Darryl L. Pierce" <> writes:

    > Per Abrahamsen wrote:
    >
    >>> Given that eclipse has plugins for C/Java/Latex and runs on Linux/Win,
    >>> I don't see a reason why I should stick with emacs.

    >>
    >> You are aware that there exist text formats other than C, Java and
    >> LaTeX, and platforms other than Linux and MS-Windows?

    >
    > Perhaps there are, but if the person to which you're replying doesn't use
    > them then their existence is meaningless to him.


    Given that he posted a news message, he uses at least one other text
    format. But my point wasn't that he should have chosen differently,
    my question was mostly meant as an implicit reply to his question:

    >>> I would like to know why emacs-users (who have also tried eclipse) are
    >>> still sticking with emacs ?


    Even if his experience is restricted to three text formats on two
    platforms, that is not a universal condition. So a solution that fits
    his needs may not fit everybody else.
    Per Abrahamsen, Oct 7, 2004
    #20
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