Email Program

Discussion in 'Python' started by J, Mar 1, 2009.

  1. J

    J Guest

    Is it possible to make a GUI email program in Python that stores
    emails, composes, ect? Also, could I create my own programming
    language in Python? What are Pythons limits, or is this just a waste
    of my time to learn it.
     
    J, Mar 1, 2009
    #1
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  2. J

    Lie Ryan Guest

    J wrote:
    > Is it possible to make a GUI email program in Python that stores
    > emails, composes, ect? Also, could I create my own programming
    > language in Python? What are Pythons limits, or is this just a waste
    > of my time to learn it.
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >


    Python is Turing Complete.
     
    Lie Ryan, Mar 1, 2009
    #2
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  3. J

    Lie Ryan Guest

    J wrote:
    > Is it possible to make a GUI email program in Python that stores
    > emails, composes, ect? Also, could I create my own programming
    > language in Python? What are Pythons limits, or is this just a waste
    > of my time to learn it.
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >


    Python is Turing Complete.
     
    Lie Ryan, Mar 1, 2009
    #3
  4. J

    Shane Geiger Guest

    J wrote:
    > Is it possible to make a GUI email program in Python that stores
    > emails, composes, ect? Also, could I create my own programming
    > language in Python? What are Pythons limits, or is this just a waste
    > of my time to learn it.
    >


    Python is "Turing complete," which means it is a general-purpose
    programming language. Generally speaking, this means you can do
    anything with it that you can do with any other programming language.
    Being a higher-level language, Python is often chosen over other
    languages because it is faster to do many things in Python.

    You could also create another programming language with Python. In
    fact, another general-purpose programming language (C) was used to
    create Python.

    Python makes many things easy. For many tasks, Python saves you a lot
    of time. It is a good general-purpose tool to know how to use well. It
    is a good beginner's language, as it makes many of the annoying things
    about programs non-issues.



    --
    Shane Geiger, IT Director
    Council For Economic Education / www.councilforeconed.org
    / 402-438-8958

    Teaching Opportunity
     
    Shane Geiger, Mar 1, 2009
    #4
  5. J

    Paul McGuire Guest

    On Feb 28, 7:56 pm, J <> wrote:
    > Is it possible to make a GUI email program in Python that stores
    > emails, composes, ect? Also, could I create my own programming
    > language in Python? What are Pythons limits, or is this just a waste
    > of my time to learn it.


    This "waste of my time" phrase is a telling one - I guess your age to
    be in the 12-15 range. I would suggest that you are not necessarily
    in the best position to know what is or is not a waste of your time to
    learn.

    Imagine you are a baby and want to grow up to be a runner. Is it a
    waste of time to learn to crawl, and then to walk? Is it a waste of
    time to learn human nutrition, fitness, hydration? Is it a waste of
    time to learn the discipline of diet and practice?

    Is it a waste of time to learn something that may not pertain to your
    personal occupational goal, but may make you a more interesting, or
    philosophical, or thoughtful, or creative person?

    I'm not sure that we are the best judges as to whether Python is a
    waste of your time to learn. In general, I would say it is not a
    waste of *anyone's* time to learn Python, but a lot depends on whether
    the student is actually inspired by some inner curiosity and
    creativity. If Python instruction is simply being shoved down their
    throat, then yes, it probably is a waste of their time, and their
    instructor's, and their fellow students' who may be more motivated to
    actually learn the subject.

    As to your question of whether Python can be used to write an e-mail
    client, or to create a programming language, I assure you both are
    possible. But also, given your unfamiliarity with Python, both are
    well beyond your skills for some time yet, and you are nowhere near
    reaching any of Python's limits any time soon. You will have to spend
    a lot of time learning and practicing a number of design and
    development skills before you reach that point. Whether that is a
    "waste" of time or not is up to you.

    -- Paul
     
    Paul McGuire, Mar 2, 2009
    #5
  6. J

    Paul Rubin Guest

    Paul McGuire <> writes:
    > As to your question of whether Python can be used to write an e-mail
    > client, or to create a programming language, I assure you both are
    > possible. But also, given your unfamiliarity with Python, both are
    > well beyond your skills for some time yet, and you are nowhere near
    > reaching any of Python's limits any time soon.


    Mitch Kapor (of Lotus 1-2-3 fame) spent a lot of money hiring
    very sharp Python programmers to write an email client called
    Chandler, but from what I understand, progress so far has been
    disappointing, at least in part for performance reasons.
     
    Paul Rubin, Mar 2, 2009
    #6
  7. J

    Paul McGuire Guest

    On Mar 2, 1:11 am, Paul Rubin <http://> wrote:
    > Paul McGuire <> writes:
    > > As to your question of whether Python can be used to write an e-mail
    > > client, or to create a programming language, I assure you both are
    > > possible.  But also, given your unfamiliarity with Python, both are
    > > well beyond your skills for some time yet, and you are nowhere near
    > > reaching any of Python's limits any time soon.  

    >
    > Mitch Kapor (of Lotus 1-2-3 fame) spent a lot of money hiring
    > very sharp Python programmers to write an email client called
    > Chandler, but from what I understand, progress so far has been
    > disappointing, at least in part for performance reasons.


    Yipes, have you read the book ("Dreaming in Code")? Chandler's
    problems were much more organizational than technical. The staff was
    loaded with Netscape/Microsoft/Apple alumni, well-respected, but also
    well-heeled, perhaps a little too comfortable and complacent with
    their IPO and stock option money, not hungry enough. And Kapor's
    leadership from the top was too easy-going, not enough urgency or
    drive. The project would tread water for months at a time, waiting
    for some collective eureka to resolve philosophical design questions,
    while the operational burn rate burned on. Kapor was both majority
    investor and CEO/COO, which would make it difficult for Kapor the
    Manager to see core problems when Kapor the Investor could just
    plaster over them with more money. But when even the added cash ($5MM
    initial + $2.5MM add-on) was burned through, the basic problems still
    remained and ultimately, no product. (A partial package has been
    released - for $7.5MM one would hope so!)

    When starting a project, you have three priority factors: time, money,
    and scope. You have to pick the top 2, and the third has to give.
    Chandler did not have any time driver, fuzzy scope, and *lots* of
    money, maybe too much. If the money had been tighter, the deadlines
    and scope would have had to get a lot crisper.

    Python performance may be the reason why the delivered package is
    sluggish, but it is far from being the root reason for the project's
    lackluster results.

    -- Paul
     
    Paul McGuire, Mar 2, 2009
    #7
  8. On Feb 28, 7:56 pm, J <> wrote:
    > Is it possible to make a GUI email program in Python that stores
    > emails, composes, ect? Also, could I create my own programming
    > language in Python? What are Pythons limits, or is this just a waste
    > of my time to learn it.


    The book, "Programming Python 3rd ed." by Lutz has a command-line and
    a Tkinter-based GUI email program in it. I don't recall if it stored
    emails or not, but that should be fairly trivial to add. I've written
    a simple GUI program for sending emails via POP3, but haven't dug into
    downloading or displaying emails on a server.

    Mike
     
    Mike Driscoll, Mar 2, 2009
    #8
  9. Hi James,

    On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 12:41 PM, James Matthews <> wrote:
    > You can look at Digsby for an example of an email program.



    I've followed Digsby for a while, but it's an instant messenger /
    social network aggregator, not an email client. It's much like a fancy
    Pidgin and it's not open source, so I don't see how I can "take a
    look" at it.

    The developers for Digsby announced it on the wxPython list for some
    reason, so I was a little disappointed when the source was
    unavailable.

    Mike


    >
    > On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Mike Driscoll <> wrote:
    >>
    >> On Feb 28, 7:56 pm, J <> wrote:
    >> > Is it possible to make a GUI email program in Python that stores
    >> > emails, composes, ect? Also, could I create my own programming
    >> > language in Python? What are Pythons limits, or is this just a waste
    >> > of my time to learn it.

    >>
    >> The book, "Programming Python 3rd ed." by Lutz has a command-line and
    >> a Tkinter-based GUI email program in it. I don't recall if it stored
    >> emails or not, but that should be fairly trivial to add. I've written
    >> a simple GUI program for sending emails via POP3, but haven't dug into
    >> downloading or displaying emails on a server.
    >>
    >> Mike
    >> --
    >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > http://www.astorandblack.com
    >
     
    Mike Driscoll, Mar 2, 2009
    #9
  10. Re: Chandler, Python, speed

    Alan G Isaac wrote:

    > 3. Chandler is not really an email client. So specifically,
    > which of its functionalities is it slow, and what evidence
    > if any is there that Python is causing this?


    I remember reading "somewhere" that the cause of slowness is/was
    architectural - perhaps it was that chandler was persisting too much stuff
    to disk, or something. In any case, this might help you google for more
    detail.
     
    Ville M. Vainio, Mar 7, 2009
    #10
  11. J

    alex23 Guest

    Re: Chandler, Python, speed

    On Mar 8, 8:05 am, "Ville M. Vainio" <> wrote:
    > I remember reading "somewhere" that the cause of slowness is/was
    > architectural - perhaps it was that chandler was persisting too much stuff
    > to disk, or something. In any case, this might help you google for more
    > detail.


    My understanding was the Philip Eby's oft-quoted Python Is Not Java[1]
    post was a direct response to how he saw the Chandler project being
    developed:

    "I was recently looking at the source of a wxPython-based GUI
    application, about 45.5KLOC in size, not counting the libraries used
    (e.g. Twisted). The code was written by Java developers who are
    relatively new to Python, and it suffers from some performance issues
    (like a 30-second startup time). In examining the code, I found that
    they had done lots of things that make sense in Java, but which suck
    terribly in Python. Not because "Python is slower than Java", but
    because there are easier ways to accomplish the same goals in Python,
    that wouldn't even be possible in Java."

    [1]: http://dirtsimple.org/2004/12/python-is-not-java.html
     
    alex23, Mar 8, 2009
    #11
  12. J

    Tim Wintle Guest

    Re: Chandler, Python, speed

    On Sat, 2009-03-07 at 22:05 +0000, Ville M. Vainio wrote:
    > Alan G Isaac wrote:
    >
    > > 3. Chandler is not really an email client. So specifically,
    > > which of its functionalities is it slow, and what evidence
    > > if any is there that Python is causing this?

    >
    > I remember reading "somewhere" that the cause of slowness is/was
    > architectural - perhaps it was that chandler was persisting too much stuff
    > to disk, or something. In any case, this might help you google for more
    > detail.


    I've been using it, and the only major issue I've got is the long
    shutdown times, which is caused by backing up a copy of _Everything_ to
    disk, so that upgrades can happen cleanly - sure that's going to be
    fixed though.

    Startup time is a bit slow too, but it's designed to be left open all
    the time, and it's fairly zippy once it's open IMO.

    Tim Wintle
     
    Tim Wintle, Mar 8, 2009
    #12
  13. Re: Chandler, Python, speed

    Ville M. Vainio wrote:

    > Alan G Isaac wrote:
    >
    >> 3. Chandler is not really an email client. So specifically,
    >> which of its functionalities is it slow, and what evidence
    >> if any is there that Python is causing this?

    >
    > I remember reading "somewhere" that the cause of slowness is/was
    > architectural - perhaps it was that chandler was persisting too much stuff
    > to disk, or something. In any case, this might help you google for more
    > detail.


    Here's the "somewhere":

    http://blog.chandlerproject.org/200...y-i-use-chandler-and-what-would-make-me-stop/

    QQQ

    Alex, you’re right that VM usage is a big factor, although there are cases
    where the CPU is doing too much, too. So far as why this is, there are many
    contributions. The biggest one is that architectural decisions taken early
    on in the project meant that way too much data is being persisted. For
    example, the app persists all schema and GUI layout information, leading to
    on-disk and mapped memory bloat. (There is also redundancy in the data
    stored on disk that leads to more of this kind of bloat).

    QQQ
     
    Ville M. Vainio, Mar 8, 2009
    #13
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