Embed vs Object

[Arondelle]

I've already perused all the FAQ's, references and tutorials on the
subject, but I haven't found a suitable solution to my "problem," so I'm
back with questions.

I am trying to place an MPEG video on my website. The sole purpose of
this page is to display the video, BTW; I probably won't even take the
time to do any fancy formatting.

"Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
favor of "object." However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.

[Note: HTML-Kit's Tag Wizard doesn't even include "embed" in its list of
tags.]

What to do? I've attempted to snip and clip code from various tutorials
purporting to show how one puts a video on a page with "object", but so
far no go. This page will, at best, be ephmeral since the MPEG is
enormous and takes too long to download (and takes up way too much
server space) to be a regular feature, so I don't want to waste too much
time on this. But, I DO want to know how to use "object" if IE and NS
ever get around to actually supporting it.

Arondelle

 

[Toby Inkster]

"Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
favor of "object." However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.

<Object> works just fine in Netscape 6+, IE 5+ (with some support in IE 4)
Safari, Konq 3 (perhaps Konq 2) and Opera 5+ (Perhaps Opera 3/4? Not
tested it yet). You only really need to bother with <embed> if you're
worried about Netscape 2/3/4.

 

[Arondelle]

<Object> works just fine in Netscape 6+, IE 5+ (with some support in IE 4)
Safari, Konq 3 (perhaps Konq 2) and Opera 5+ (Perhaps Opera 3/4? Not
tested it yet). You only really need to bother with <embed> if you're
worried about Netscape 2/3/4.

Okay. So, how about some pseudo-code for me to test out? So far all my
attempts have ended up with an empty box.

Arondelle

 

[Spartanicus]

I am trying to place an MPEG video on my website. The sole purpose of
this page is to display the video, BTW; I probably won't even take the
time to do any fancy formatting.

"Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
favor of "object."

The process of embedding (not matter what element you use) for audio
and/or video is fundamentally flawed:
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/embed.htm

However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.
Incorrect.

What to do?

Link, don't embed, offer users a link to download and another to stream:
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/streaming.htm

 

[Arondelle]

Link, don't embed, offer users a link to download and another to stream:
http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/streaming.htm

Looks more like what I want to do. However, I don't see an expample of
how to create a redirect file for a plain (not layer 3) MPEG video. what
should I change there?

Arondelle

 

[Webcastmaker]

"Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
favor of "object." However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.

I believe it is more like IE and NN7+ actually do it right. Embed
was used for browsers that support plugins.

 

[Arondelle]

I believe it is more like IE and NN7+ actually do it right. Embed
was used for browsers that support plugins.

Regardless, I've decided to just convert the animation into a GIF which
is way smaller and can just be placed like an ordinary image without
resorting to any mental gymnastics. I can also control the number of
times it will loop before stopping and have more control over the frame
rate.

B-)

Arondelle

 

[Toby Inkster]

Okay. So, how about some pseudo-code for me to test out? So far all my
attempts have ended up with an empty box.

<object data="image.jpeg" type="image/jpeg" height="90" width="120">
<p>Image.</p>
</object>

 

[Spartanicus]

I don't see an expample of
how to create a redirect file for a plain (not layer 3) MPEG video.

What type of MPEG video, mpeg1, mpeg2, mpeg4, the MS proprietary variant
of mpeg4 aka Windows Media?

 

[Arondelle]

What type of MPEG video, mpeg1, mpeg2, mpeg4, the MS proprietary variant
of mpeg4 aka Windows Media?

Color me clueless.

I built the animation in Corel's Photo-Paint and exported it to an MPG
file. I was given two choices: MPEG and MPEG(3) [Just like that: I have
no idea what that means]. I almost died when I saw how big the file
was, and when I re-opened it, I found that the conversion had inflated
the number of frames five-fold, from 50 to 250, and and increase the
frame-rate three-fold. Ouch.

The animated GIF is about a third the size, maybe smaller...

Arondelle

 

[Spartanicus]

What type of MPEG video, mpeg1, mpeg2, mpeg4, the MS proprietary variant
of mpeg4 aka Windows Media?

I built the animation in Corel's Photo-Paint and exported it to an MPG
file. I was given two choices: MPEG and MPEG(3) [Just like that: I have
no idea what that means]. I almost died when I saw how big the file
was, and when I re-opened it, I found that the conversion had inflated
the number of frames five-fold, from 50 to 250, and and increase the
frame-rate three-fold. Ouch.

The animated GIF is about a third the size, maybe smaller...

Why then do you want to inflict the video version on your users?

Video compression formats generally don't do a great job with animation
type material due to the jpeg style of compression. It also takes quite
some skill to create a video animation with an appropriate framerate.
Corel Photo-Paint is probably not capable of creating this type of file.

 

[Arondelle]

Why then do you want to inflict the video version on your users?

Well, I *don't* any more. A girl's allowed to change her mind isn't
she? )

Video compression formats generally don't do a great job with animation
type material due to the jpeg style of compression. It also takes quite
some skill to create a video animation with an appropriate framerate.
Corel Photo-Paint is probably not capable of creating this type of file.

Oh, Photo-Paint is perfectly *capable* of creating this type of file,
it's just not very *good* at it. For some reason, last night I thought
an MPEG would be smaller than a GIF, the way a JPEG is smaller than a
BMP. Silly me.

Arondelle

 

[SpaceGirl]

Regardless, I've decided to just convert the animation into a GIF which
is way smaller and can just be placed like an ordinary image without
resorting to any mental gymnastics. I can also control the number of
times it will loop before stopping and have more control over the frame
rate.

B-)

Arondelle

It's an illusion, you dont have any control Many browsers in high
security mode do NOT animate GIFs that have animation in them, they just
display the first frame

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Arondelle]

It's an illusion, you dont have any control Many browsers in high
security mode do NOT animate GIFs that have animation in them, they just
display the first frame

What the userd do is their own affair. What I *can* control is what I
put into the GIF. The MPEG creator in Photo-Paint doesn't allow me to
specify how many time the video should loop. One time through and
that's all. With the GIF format I can have no loop, 1 loop, 5 loops,
continuous loops -- or whatever... This particular GIF will have 5
loops which should be plenty of time to see the full effect.

Meanwhile, the persons I'm targeting the page at are specifically
looking for the animation. It wouldn't make sense for them to have shut
off their ability to play animations and then go looking for them, would it?

Remember to make your pages for your target audience -- try to please
all people all of the time, and you end up pleasing no one most of the time.

Arondelle