Embed vs Object

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Arondelle, Jul 23, 2004.

  1. Arondelle

    Arondelle Guest

    I've already perused all the FAQ's, references and tutorials on the
    subject, but I haven't found a suitable solution to my "problem," so I'm
    back with questions.

    I am trying to place an MPEG video on my website. The sole purpose of
    this page is to display the video, BTW; I probably won't even take the
    time to do any fancy formatting.

    "Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
    favor of "object." However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
    implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.

    [Note: HTML-Kit's Tag Wizard doesn't even include "embed" in its list of
    tags.]

    What to do? I've attempted to snip and clip code from various tutorials
    purporting to show how one puts a video on a page with "object", but so
    far no go. This page will, at best, be ephmeral since the MPEG is
    enormous and takes too long to download (and takes up way too much
    server space) to be a regular feature, so I don't want to waste too much
    time on this. But, I DO want to know how to use "object" if IE and NS
    ever get around to actually supporting it.

    Arondelle
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    Arondelle, Jul 23, 2004
    #1
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  2. Arondelle

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Arondelle wrote:

    > "Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
    > favor of "object." However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
    > implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.


    <Object> works just fine in Netscape 6+, IE 5+ (with some support in IE 4)
    Safari, Konq 3 (perhaps Konq 2) and Opera 5+ (Perhaps Opera 3/4? Not
    tested it yet). You only really need to bother with <embed> if you're
    worried about Netscape 2/3/4.

    --
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    Toby Inkster, Jul 23, 2004
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  3. Arondelle

    Arondelle Guest

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > Arondelle wrote:
    >
    >>"Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
    >>favor of "object." However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
    >>implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.

    >
    > <Object> works just fine in Netscape 6+, IE 5+ (with some support in IE 4)
    > Safari, Konq 3 (perhaps Konq 2) and Opera 5+ (Perhaps Opera 3/4? Not
    > tested it yet). You only really need to bother with <embed> if you're
    > worried about Netscape 2/3/4.


    Okay. So, how about some pseudo-code for me to test out? So far all my
    attempts have ended up with an empty box.

    Arondelle
    --
    ===========================================================
    To email me, empty the pond with a net
     
    Arondelle, Jul 23, 2004
    #3
  4. Arondelle

    Spartanicus Guest

    Arondelle <> wrote:

    >I am trying to place an MPEG video on my website. The sole purpose of
    >this page is to display the video, BTW; I probably won't even take the
    >time to do any fancy formatting.
    >
    >"Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
    >favor of "object."


    The process of embedding (not matter what element you use) for audio
    and/or video is fundamentally flawed:
    http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/embed.htm

    >However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
    >implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.


    Incorrect.

    >What to do?


    Link, don't embed, offer users a link to download and another to stream:
    http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/streaming.htm

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Jul 23, 2004
    #4
  5. Arondelle

    Arondelle Guest

    Spartanicus wrote:
    > Arondelle <> wrote:
    >>I am trying to place an MPEG video on my website. The sole purpose of
    >>this page is to display the video, BTW; I probably won't even take the
    >>time to do any fancy formatting.
    >>What to do?


    > Link, don't embed, offer users a link to download and another to stream:
    > http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/streaming.htm


    Looks more like what I want to do. However, I don't see an expample of
    how to create a redirect file for a plain (not layer 3) MPEG video. what
    should I change there?

    Arondelle
    --
    ===========================================================
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    Arondelle, Jul 23, 2004
    #5
  6. Arondelle

    Webcastmaker Guest

    In article <3JaMc.255$>, aron.delle3
    @verizon.pond says...
    > "Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
    > favor of "object." However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
    > implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.


    I believe it is more like IE and NN7+ actually do it right. Embed
    was used for browsers that support plugins.
    --
    WebcastMaker
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    Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
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    Webcastmaker, Jul 23, 2004
    #6
  7. Arondelle

    Arondelle Guest

    Webcastmaker wrote:
    > In article <3JaMc.255$>, aron.delle3
    > @verizon.pond says...
    >
    >>"Embed" works fine, but I understand that it's being depreciated in
    >>favor of "object." However, I also understand that neither IE or NS
    >>implement the object element yet, or do so in some funky way.

    >
    > I believe it is more like IE and NN7+ actually do it right. Embed
    > was used for browsers that support plugins.


    Regardless, I've decided to just convert the animation into a GIF which
    is way smaller and can just be placed like an ordinary image without
    resorting to any mental gymnastics. I can also control the number of
    times it will loop before stopping and have more control over the frame
    rate.

    B-)

    Arondelle
    --
    ===========================================================
    To email me, empty the pond with a net
     
    Arondelle, Jul 23, 2004
    #7
  8. Arondelle

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Arondelle wrote:

    > Okay. So, how about some pseudo-code for me to test out? So far all my
    > attempts have ended up with an empty box.


    <object data="image.jpeg" type="image/jpeg" height="90" width="120">
    <p>Image.</p>
    </object>

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Jul 23, 2004
    #8
  9. Arondelle

    Spartanicus Guest

    Arondelle <> wrote:

    >I don't see an expample of
    >how to create a redirect file for a plain (not layer 3) MPEG video.


    What type of MPEG video, mpeg1, mpeg2, mpeg4, the MS proprietary variant
    of mpeg4 aka Windows Media?

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Jul 23, 2004
    #9
  10. Arondelle

    Arondelle Guest

    Spartanicus wrote:
    > Arondelle <> wrote:
    >>I don't see an expample of
    >>how to create a redirect file for a plain (not layer 3) MPEG video.


    > What type of MPEG video, mpeg1, mpeg2, mpeg4, the MS proprietary variant
    > of mpeg4 aka Windows Media?


    Color me clueless.

    I built the animation in Corel's Photo-Paint and exported it to an MPG
    file. I was given two choices: MPEG and MPEG(3) [Just like that: I have
    no idea what that means]. I almost died when I saw how big the file
    was, and when I re-opened it, I found that the conversion had inflated
    the number of frames five-fold, from 50 to 250, and and increase the
    frame-rate three-fold. Ouch.

    The animated GIF is about a third the size, maybe smaller...

    Arondelle
    --
    ===========================================================
    To email me, empty the pond with a net
     
    Arondelle, Jul 23, 2004
    #10
  11. Arondelle

    Spartanicus Guest

    Arondelle <> wrote:

    >> What type of MPEG video, mpeg1, mpeg2, mpeg4, the MS proprietary variant
    >> of mpeg4 aka Windows Media?

    >
    >I built the animation in Corel's Photo-Paint and exported it to an MPG
    >file. I was given two choices: MPEG and MPEG(3) [Just like that: I have
    >no idea what that means]. I almost died when I saw how big the file
    >was, and when I re-opened it, I found that the conversion had inflated
    >the number of frames five-fold, from 50 to 250, and and increase the
    >frame-rate three-fold. Ouch.
    >
    >The animated GIF is about a third the size, maybe smaller...


    Why then do you want to inflict the video version on your users?

    Video compression formats generally don't do a great job with animation
    type material due to the jpeg style of compression. It also takes quite
    some skill to create a video animation with an appropriate framerate.
    Corel Photo-Paint is probably not capable of creating this type of file.

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Jul 23, 2004
    #11
  12. Arondelle

    Arondelle Guest

    Spartanicus wrote:
    > Why then do you want to inflict the video version on your users?


    Well, I *don't* any more. A girl's allowed to change her mind isn't
    she? :eek:)

    > Video compression formats generally don't do a great job with animation
    > type material due to the jpeg style of compression. It also takes quite
    > some skill to create a video animation with an appropriate framerate.
    > Corel Photo-Paint is probably not capable of creating this type of file.


    Oh, Photo-Paint is perfectly *capable* of creating this type of file,
    it's just not very *good* at it. For some reason, last night I thought
    an MPEG would be smaller than a GIF, the way a JPEG is smaller than a
    BMP. Silly me.

    Arondelle
    --
    ===========================================================
    To email me, empty the pond with a net
     
    Arondelle, Jul 23, 2004
    #12
  13. Arondelle

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Arondelle wrote:

    > Regardless, I've decided to just convert the animation into a GIF which
    > is way smaller and can just be placed like an ordinary image without
    > resorting to any mental gymnastics. I can also control the number of
    > times it will loop before stopping and have more control over the frame
    > rate.
    >
    > B-)
    >
    > Arondelle


    It's an illusion, you dont have any control :) Many browsers in high
    security mode do NOT animate GIFs that have animation in them, they just
    display the first frame :)

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
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    SpaceGirl, Jul 24, 2004
    #13
  14. Arondelle

    Arondelle Guest

    SpaceGirl wrote:
    > Arondelle wrote:
    >
    >> Regardless, I've decided to just convert the animation into a GIF
    >> which is way smaller and can just be placed like an ordinary image
    >> without resorting to any mental gymnastics. I can also control the
    >> number of times it will loop before stopping and have more control
    >> over the frame rate.


    > It's an illusion, you dont have any control :) Many browsers in high
    > security mode do NOT animate GIFs that have animation in them, they just
    > display the first frame :)


    What the userd do is their own affair. What I *can* control is what I
    put into the GIF. The MPEG creator in Photo-Paint doesn't allow me to
    specify how many time the video should loop. One time through and
    that's all. With the GIF format I can have no loop, 1 loop, 5 loops,
    continuous loops -- or whatever... This particular GIF will have 5
    loops which should be plenty of time to see the full effect.

    Meanwhile, the persons I'm targeting the page at are specifically
    looking for the animation. It wouldn't make sense for them to have shut
    off their ability to play animations and then go looking for them, would it?

    Remember to make your pages for your target audience -- try to please
    all people all of the time, and you end up pleasing no one most of the time.

    Arondelle
    --
    ===========================================================
    To email me, empty the pond with a net
     
    Arondelle, Jul 24, 2004
    #14
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