Embedding QuickTime movie

[patrick j]

Hi

I'm trying to get a QuickTime movie to work in various browsers which is in
a very simple web-page.

Below is the code I'm using to embed the movie.

<object classid="clsid:02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B"
codebase="http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab" height="576"
width="1024">
<param name="src" value="citizen_kane.mov">
<param name="autoplay" value="false">
<param name="controller" value="true">
<embed height="592" width="1024" src="citizen_kane.mov"
pluginspage="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/"
type="video/quicktime" controller="true" autoplay="false">
</object>


It works very well in Safari but not in FireFox, nor in iCab or Camino or
IE 7.

I'm wondering what the problem might be?

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give.

 

[cwdjrxyz]

Hi

I'm trying to get a QuickTime movie to work in various browsers which is in
a very simple web-page.

Below is the code I'm using to embed the movie.

<object classid="clsid:02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B"
codebase="http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab" height="576"
width="1024">
<param name="src" value="citizen_kane.mov">
<param name="autoplay" value="false">
<param name="controller" value="true">
<embed height="592" width="1024" src="citizen_kane.mov"
pluginspage="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/"
type="video/quicktime" controller="true" autoplay="false">
</object>

It works very well in Safari but not in FireFox, nor in iCab or Camino or
IE 7.

I'm wondering what the problem might be?

Is the .mov hinted? If not, it will not start playing until completely
downloaded, which could be quite a while if the download is not very
fast, because .mov files tend to be fairly large in many cases. If you
encode with many encoders, the .mov resulting is not hinted. If you
have the pay/pro version of the QT player, it is easy to hint a .mov.
You just open your .mov in QT Pro and then store it somewhere else
with a slightly different name. The stored .mov file then will be
hinted( have data to make the .mov stream before download is
complete). All embedded .mov files, except very short ones, should be
hinted before being embedded on a web page.

The object code you use often is used, but it is invalid because it
contains embed which has never been a W3C tag. There may or may not be
something else wrong with the code that causes it not to work(if it
truly does not work after a long wait when the .mov is not hinted).

Here is how I embed a .mov. Go to my page at http://www.cwdjr.info/video_extreme/cancanMOV.php
.. This works for me on IE6 and the latest versions of Firefox,
Seamonkey, Safari for Windows, and Opera. The .mov is hinted and the
movie is set not to start automatically. The dark download bar is
filled in dark color as the .mov is downloaded. If your download speed
is high enough to keep ahead of the rate needed by the .mov, then you
can click to play at any time. If download is too slow, you can still
start the movie, but it will pause when it catches up with the
download. The movie is designed for high broadband. I usually can get
4 to 5 Mbps in the US with the server being located in the central US.
Such fast download is not possible in many other parts of the world.

If you do not serve code as true xhtml with mime type application/xhtml
+xml associated with an extension such as .xhtml , then view the page
on IE to view the source code in html 4.01 strict. Notice that the
simple object code has an ActiveX path that is taken only for IE and
close relatives. Most other browsers do not support ActiveX, which is
supposed to be handled by the embed code you use. However an ordinary
object will serve for these other browsers. Microsoft conditional
comments are used to select the ActiveX path only for IE and close
relative browsers.

 

[Art]

I'm trying to get a QuickTime movie to work in various browsers which is in
a very simple web-page.

It works very well in Safari but not in FireFox, nor in iCab or Camino or
IE 7.
[...]
I'm wondering what the problem might be?

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give.

Patrick,
As you've discovered, the current versions of IE don't work with this
method. It now requires a Javascript stub, and obviously, Javascript
enabled on the browser. This new method will work in all browsers. No
need for any IE-specific code.

There's a good explanation of this at:

http://www.barebones.com/products/bbedit/embedtag.shtml

If you've got a number of pages with the <object> style code to convert,
the BBEdit script will do the job nicely (it does require BBEdit which
runs only a Mac).

The description of the code conversion process is excellent at this
site, even if you can't use the tool. There are links to both the Apple
and Microsoft's discussions on this topic as well.

You can certainly alter the user warning message (inside the <noscript>
container) to your liking or just replace the <img> container with a
text warning without the image.

Art

 

[cwdjrxyz]

I'm trying to get a QuickTime movie to work in various browsers which is in
a very simple web-page.

It works very well in Safari but not in FireFox, nor in iCab or Camino or
IE 7.
[...]
I'm wondering what the problem might be?

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give.

Patrick,
As you've discovered, the current versions of IE don't work with this
method. It now requires a Javascript stub, and obviously, Javascript
enabled on the browser. This new method will work in all browsers. No
need for any IE-specific code.

There's a good explanation of this at:

http://www.barebones.com/products/bbedit/embedtag.shtml

If you've got a number of pages with the <object> style code to convert,
the BBEdit script will do the job nicely (it does require BBEdit which
runs only a Mac).

The description of the code conversion process is excellent at this
site, even if you can't use the tool. There are links to both the Apple
and Microsoft's discussions on this topic as well.

You can certainly alter the user warning message (inside the <noscript>
container) to your liking or just replace the <img> container with a
text warning without the image.

I would not use this method. It is not necessary to use all of this
complication and script. Even today some people turn script off. Also
the code given in the referenced site has several validation errors
that need not be present if proper W3C valid code is used. It is
typical of much media code for which the authors, including those in
many media companies, do not write W3C valid html, either because they
do not know how or do not care. Of course if your only interest is
that the code will work, despite errors in it, then this method likely
is an option.

 

[Art]

I'm trying to get a QuickTime movie to work in various browsers which is in
a very simple web-page.

It works very well in Safari but not in FireFox, nor in iCab or Camino or
IE 7.
[...]
I'm wondering what the problem might be?

Thank you for any assistance you may be able to give.

Patrick,
As you've discovered, the current versions of IE don't work with this
method. It now requires a Javascript stub, and obviously, Javascript
enabled on the browser. This new method will work in all browsers. No
need for any IE-specific code.

There's a good explanation of this at:

http://www.barebones.com/products/bbedit/embedtag.shtml

[...]
I would not use this method. It is not necessary to use all of this
complication and script. Even today some people turn script off. Also
the code given in the referenced site has several validation errors
that need not be present if proper W3C valid code is used. It is
typical of much media code for which the authors, including those in
many media companies, do not write W3C valid html, either because they
do not know how or do not care. Of course if your only interest is
that the code will work, despite errors in it, then this method likely
is an option.

cwdjrxyz,
The above link does indeed have W3C validation errors. However, if you
merely extract the converted stubs (highlighted in color) and paste them
into your html, it will validate (assuming the remaining html/xhtml is
valid ). The <img> container does have an invalid parameter (border)
that needs to be removed or restyled with css for 4.01 Strict compliance.

The primary purpose of that particular page was to provide a simple
converter tool for legacy pages without using IE conditionals. When you
run the tool, it will modify only the QT-related code.

Your method is certainly a viable alternative. It would appear that it
uses the same parameter names and values as described in:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/tutorials/embed2.html

Is that correct for both the IE and non-IE cases ?

Art

 

[patrick j]

Is the .mov hinted? If not, it will not start playing until completely
downloaded, which could be quite a while if the download is not very
fast, because .mov files tend to be fairly large in many cases. If you
encode with many encoders, the .mov resulting is not hinted. If you
have the pay/pro version of the QT player, it is easy to hint a .mov.
You just open your .mov in QT Pro and then store it somewhere else
with a slightly different name. The stored .mov file then will be
hinted( have data to make the .mov stream before download is
complete). All embedded .mov files, except very short ones, should be
hinted before being embedded on a web page.

Hi

First thank you for your assistance.

I've tried re-saving using QuickTime Pro but this doesn't make any
difference. The movie has been exported from Final Cut Pro using
Compressor.

However it is good that at this point I mention that the movie is not going
onto a server to be downloaded. It is at present on a hard-drive in my
house and the very simple HTML page is right beside it.

The intention is to burn the movie to a DVD along with the HTML page. The
HTML page is a simple "wrapper" for the movie. This is what has been
required of me.

The movie is 4.35 GB if not optimised for streaming and 3.5 GB if
optimised.

The object code you use often is used, but it is invalid because it
contains embed which has never been a W3C tag. There may or may not be
something else wrong with the code that causes it not to work(if it
truly does not work after a long wait when the .mov is not hinted).

Here is how I embed a .mov. Go to my page at
http://www.cwdjr.info/video_extreme/cancanMOV.php
. This works for me on IE6 and the latest versions of Firefox,
Seamonkey, Safari for Windows, and Opera.

I have copied your page and have it sitting next to my QuickTime file. I've
changed relevant bits so it is pointed to my QuickTime file. However it
behaves exactly as my original page does, it works very well in Safari but
not in Firefox or iCab etc.

I haven't tried it with IE yet but my priority is to get it working with
Firefox.

The place that it is going is a mostly Firefox using place. I know they do
have Safari but I don't want to have to say "it will only work in Safari"


I'm not that concerned about IE but I will use your conditional comments
for that. I like using conditional comments for IE for the reasons you've
stated.

Also I like the fact that your code validates

Now I just have to sort out why it is only working with Safari

It must be something to do with the situation.

It is very strange.

 

[patrick j]

Patrick,
As you've discovered, the current versions of IE don't work with this
method. It now requires a Javascript stub, and obviously, Javascript
enabled on the browser. This new method will work in all browsers. No
need for any IE-specific code.

There's a good explanation of this at:

http://www.barebones.com/products/bbedit/embedtag.shtml

If you've got a number of pages with the <object> style code to convert,
the BBEdit script will do the job nicely (it does require BBEdit which
runs only a Mac).

The description of the code conversion process is excellent at this
site, even if you can't use the tool. There are links to both the Apple
and Microsoft's discussions on this topic as well.

You can certainly alter the user warning message (inside the <noscript>
container) to your liking or just replace the <img> container with a
text warning without the image.

Hi Art

Thank you very much for this advice. I am a BBEdit user it is really a
fabulous text editor

I'm going to check this out. In fact my main priority is to get the page to
work with Firefox. I like the conditional comment procedure for IE as
mentioned in a neighbouring post.

 

[patrick j]

It must be something to do with the situation.

I'm replying to my own posting

I've discovered that this issue is to do with the QuickTime movie and not
the code in the web-page.

I've done the obvious and simply pointed the browsers directly at the movie
on my hard-drive and it is only Safari which will play it.

I don't think it is the "hinting" issue because it doesn't get better when
I re-save the movie using QuickTime Pro.

I'm going to take this to the QuickTime forum at the Apple web-site.

However if anyone has any ideas I am "all ears"

 

[Art]

Hi Art

Thank you very much for this advice. I am a BBEdit user it is really a
fabulous text editor

I'm going to check this out. In fact my main priority is to get the page to
work with Firefox. I like the conditional comment procedure for IE as
mentioned in a neighbouring post.

Patrick,
cwdjrxyz's method certainly has merit if you're coding the page from
scratch as it is easier to attach any parameters where you wish to
override the default states. As I mentioned in a follow-up posting, the
BBEdit tool was intended for bulk conversion of legacy pages that
utilized the <embed> tag method.

Looking back at one of your follow-ups, if the final intent is to place
this on a DVD, have you considered importing it into a tool such as
iMovie/iDVD or Toast and creating a stand-alone DVD media ? You wouldn't
be faced with the streaming issues, or browser "idiosyncrasies" with
this method. Your 4.3GB movie would fit on a SL DVD media.

Art

 

[patrick j]

Patrick,
cwdjrxyz's method certainly has merit if you're coding the page from
scratch as it is easier to attach any parameters where you wish to
override the default states. As I mentioned in a follow-up posting, the
BBEdit tool was intended for bulk conversion of legacy pages that
utilized the <embed> tag method.

Hi Art

I'll be using the BBEdit tool when that situation arises. At present I'm
dealing with just one bit of code on one page, so it is good for me to use
cwdjrxyz's method.

Looking back at one of your follow-ups, if the final intent is to place
this on a DVD, have you considered importing it into a tool such as
iMovie/iDVD or Toast and creating a stand-alone DVD media ? You wouldn't
be faced with the streaming issues, or browser "idiosyncrasies" with
this method. Your 4.3GB movie would fit on a SL DVD media.

Yes I'd love to do it this way, it would be far better.

But...

This is a project for an MA Digital Media University course I'm doing. The
stipulation is that it should be in HTML. To fulfil that then I am putting
a wrapper for the video. It's a drag but there's no way out of it

I can do anything for this part of the MA, so for example I could have done
an animation, or something advanced with Photoshop, but it must be viewable
in a web-browser. In my case I've done a video. They use Macs primarily in
the shool so they all have the QuickTime plug-in.

I'm convinced now that the problem for me getting the video to work in
Firefox and other browsers is something to do with the video rather than
the code in the html page I've created.

In fact I am very likely going to create a standalone DVD version of the
video as well for my own uses

 

[Art]

Patrick, [...]

Looking back at one of your follow-ups, if the final intent is to place
this on a DVD, have you considered importing it into a tool such as
iMovie/iDVD or Toast and creating a stand-alone DVD media ?

<[...]

Yes I'd love to do it this way, it would be far better.

[...]
I'm convinced now that the problem for me getting the video to work in
Firefox and other browsers is something to do with the video rather than
the code in the html page I've created.
[...]

Patrick,
A non-streaming 4.3GB QT file might be giving some browsers fits. A
suggestion would be to gin up a small QT file (say 30 seconds of your
movie) using your existing methodology and see if it plays on the
suspect browsers. This would validate whether your authoring flow is the
issue or if the problem lies in the file size.

If the file size is the culprit (sometimes size matters ), you could try:
1) authoring the movie in smaller chapter segments and put navigation
links to them on the HTML page. Sort of like a DVD menu page.

2) If the project allows it, drop the resolution and/or frame rate to
reduce the file size. Also, look at the audio rate.

3) Try authoring in H.264 format. You might get better compression.

Art

 

[patrick j]

Patrick,
A non-streaming 4.3GB QT file might be giving some browsers fits. A
suggestion would be to gin up a small QT file (say 30 seconds of your
movie) using your existing methodology and see if it plays on the
suspect browsers. This would validate whether your authoring flow is the
issue or if the problem lies in the file size.

Hi Art

I've just tried a file of 107 MB and it works fine in Firefox, so it must
be that the file size is indeed the culprit.

If the file size is the culprit (sometimes size matters ), you could try:
1) authoring the movie in smaller chapter segments and put navigation
links to them on the HTML page. Sort of like a DVD menu page.

2) If the project allows it, drop the resolution and/or frame rate to
reduce the file size. Also, look at the audio rate.

3) Try authoring in H.264 format. You might get better compression.

Of these three options I'm going to try 3) and 2). I can't split up the
film for option 1). In truth I really don't want to lose any picture
quality as many of the sequences are quite beautiful, if I say so myself

So...

I'll see how small I can make it before it gets nasty.

I'll report back on developments...

 

[David Segall]

Hi

I'm trying to get a QuickTime movie to work

[OT] Please don't, or at least give us a choice of formats. Apple
insist on loading up my machine with extra junk to sell iTunes and
iPhones so I'm trying to get rid of QuickTime.

 

[cwdjrxyz]

Hi

I'm trying to get a QuickTime movie to work

[OT] Please don't, or at least give us a choice of formats. Apple
insist on loading up my machine with extra junk to sell iTunes and
iPhones so I'm trying to get rid of QuickTime.

It is a jungle out there now concerning video formats. Many offer you
free players in the hope that you will buy some of their music etc.
Apple tries to sell you media and players. Real tries to sell you
media. Microsoft makes recent players including the newest WMP 11 that
can only be installed on a WindowsXP or Vista OSs. Also they try to
sell you media. And so on. The glut of video formats pushed by various
companies now approaches anarchy. See my video zoo at
http://www.cwdjr.info/video_extreme/VideoZoo.php for examples of 15 of
these format beasts that you often run into these days - and these 15
by no means exhaust the list. And several of these formats have HD
versions etc. Of course the wide use of small hand-held portable
devices, mobile devices, and cell phones has expanded the wide use of
media far beyond desktop computers.

 

[patrick j]

I'll report back on developments...

Hi

It's me again

Thank you Art and cwdjrxyz.

I've got my video working now in various browsers.

It looks good and the extremely simple web-page verifies very nicely.

The primary problem was the very large size of the video file.

Now it is compressed using H.264 it is a much smaller size 371.3 MB.

I had been very daft and had been compressing it from Final Cut Pro with
Photo-Jpeg which is I guess why the file was so large, 4.3 GB!

The video only lasts 9 mins 31 secs so it shouldn't have needed a file that
big

In fact with H.264 some of the video actually looks better. A few bits
don't look quite as good, but it is 6 of one half a dozen of the other and
H.264 gives me something I can use.

I've found that it is best to stick with 48 KHz for the sound. There is a
significant chunk of the video for which sound is very important and so
when I tried lower sampling rates the reduction in quality was noticeable.

 

[cwdjrxyz]

On Dec 31, 2007 patrick j wrote:

I've got my video working now in various browsers.

It looks good and the extremely simple web-page verifies very nicely.

The primary problem was the very large size of the video file.

Now it is compressed using H.264 it is a much smaller size 371.3 MB.

I had been very daft and had been compressing it from Final Cut Pro with
Photo-Jpeg which is I guess why the file was so large, 4.3 GB!

The video only lasts 9 mins 31 secs so it shouldn't have needed a file
that

big

For comparison, a typical commercial DL DVD of a movie lasting under 2
hours will have under 8 GB. You were using a larger file size than
needed by most of the high definition video formats! Also, on a DVD,
the video is broken up into .VOB files(a special mpeg type of file)
that are about 1 GB each. The other control and housekeeping file
types on a DVD are much shorter. Older hard drives formatted in FAT
will not work on programs for DVDs, because FAT does not even allow
files of 1 GB or slightly larger as needed for DVDs.

 

[Art]

I'll report back on developments...

Hi

It's me again

Thank you Art and cwdjrxyz.

I've got my video working now in various browsers.

[...]

Patrick,
Glad to hear you solved the problem. Hope you ace the course .

Art