[EVALUATION] - E04 - jamPersist Evaluation Case Applied to Ruby

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Ilias Lazaridis, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. [EVALUATION] - E03 - jamLang Evaluation Case Applied to Ruby
    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/msg/412943e7c6ed6968

    The above thread was exceptionally productive.

    http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/ruby.html

    [as it looks, i will take ruby as the "reference" and compare other
    languages against it]

    -

    The next (more practical) evaluation is persistence:

    http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/index.html

    there are ready evaluations of another products, thus you can understand
    the sequence easier, e.g.:

    http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/schevo.html

    you can simply take the above sequence and apply it to the library /
    product that you suggest for ruby persistency.

    [alternatively, you can just suggest the library/product to use - or
    provide a pointer to listing]

    ..

    --
    http://lazaridis.com
    Ilias Lazaridis, Apr 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
    > [EVALUATION] - E03 - jamLang Evaluation Case Applied to Ruby
    > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/msg/412943e7c6ed6968
    >
    > The above thread was exceptionally productive.
    >
    > http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/ruby.html
    >
    > [as it looks, i will take ruby as the "reference" and compare other
    > languages against it]
    >
    > -
    >
    > The next (more practical) evaluation is persistence:


    I am a little disapointed about the feedback in this thread.

    > http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/index.html
    >
    > there are ready evaluations of another products, thus you can understand
    > the sequence easier, e.g.:
    >
    > http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/schevo.html
    >
    > you can simply take the above sequence and apply it to the library /
    > product that you suggest for ruby persistency.
    >
    > [alternatively, you can just suggest the library/product to use - or
    > provide a pointer to listing]


    I am aware about 2 products:

    Nitro_Og
    http://nitro.rubyforge.org/

    Rails.ActiveRecord:
    http://ar.rubyonrails.com/

    any other solutions for ruby persistency?

    ..

    --
    http://lazaridis.com
    Ilias Lazaridis, Apr 7, 2005
    #2
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  3. Ilias:

    There are numerous solutions for Ruby persistance. See
    [ruby-talk:130871] for a long list that I provided you on the 14th of
    February.

    I think that it's high time you start trying to implement something --
    a lot of the things that you're not "getting" will make sense when you
    try to implement something, rather than asking everyone else to do
    your homework.

    -austin
    Austin Ziegler, Apr 7, 2005
    #3
  4. Austin Ziegler wrote:
    > Ilias:
    >
    > There are numerous solutions for Ruby persistance. See
    > [ruby-talk:130871] for a long list that I provided you on the 14th of
    > February.


    http://www.ruby-talk.org/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/130871

    this is not complete information (see below).

    > I think that it's high time you start trying to implement something --
    > a lot of the things that you're not "getting" will make sense when you
    > try to implement something, rather than asking everyone else to do
    > your homework.


    Please do not twist the facts.

    I like to collect concise information, which I reuse to present it to
    other intresents, thus I reduce their learning and research curve.

    jamLang.Ruby is the first step:
    http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/ruby.html

    jamPersist.Ruby.??? is the second step:
    http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/index.html

    step for what?

    To showcase (busy) evaluators within 20 min. the superiority of ruby.

    in a direct, quick and simple comparison to other languages / systems.

    -

    This should be of intrest for the ruby community.

    A simple give an take.

    -

    But as it looks, I have to do all the work myself.

    -

    I've looked at rubyforge:

    http://rubyforge.org/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=66
    http://rubyforge.org/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=68

    just ActiveRecord and Og seem to be relevant for this evaluation.

    ..

    --
    http://lazaridis.com
    Ilias Lazaridis, Apr 7, 2005
    #4
  5. > I like to collect concise information, which I reuse to present it to
    > other intresents, thus I reduce their learning and research curve.


    All the information you are looking for is easily available here:
    http://www.google.com/

    Just in case this is not enough, a good resource for more information is
    here:
    http://www.amazon.de/


    > This should be of intrest for the ruby community.
    > A simple give an take.


    How many evaluators have already used your evaluations, do you have any
    major references to show the relevance of your studies?


    > But as it looks, I have to do all the work myself.


    That's true, you should try to do your work by yourself, you cannot
    expect others to do your work for free.

    martinus
    Martin Ankerl, Apr 7, 2005
    #5
  6. Ilias Lazaridis

    Kirk Haines Guest

    Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

    > I've looked at rubyforge:
    >
    > http://rubyforge.org/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=66
    > http://rubyforge.org/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=68
    >
    > just ActiveRecord and Og seem to be relevant for this evaluation.


    I have skipped a lot of this thread. However, if you are talking about
    persistence layers, there are MANY more than that.

    Kansas (http://enigo.com/projects/kansas), Lafcadio
    (http://lafcadio.rubyforge.org), Criteria ([not an ORM, but a layer for SQL
    abstraction] http://mephle.org/Criteria), Madeline, Pstore, and KirbyBase
    pop immediately to mind.


    Kirk Haines
    Kirk Haines, Apr 7, 2005
    #6
  7. On Apr 7, 2005 9:49 AM, Kirk Haines <> wrote:
    > Kansas (http://enigo.com/projects/kansas ), Lafcadio
    > (http://lafcadio.rubyforge.org ), Criteria ([not an ORM, but a layer for SQL
    > abstraction] http://mephle.org/Criteria) , Madeline, Pstore, and KirbyBase
    > pop immediately to mind.


    Indeed. I named a number of these in the message which Ilias so
    blithely ignored.

    Maybe he should start looking on the RAA.

    -austin
    --
    Austin Ziegler *
    * Alternate:
    Austin Ziegler, Apr 7, 2005
    #7
  8. Ilias Lazaridis

    Dick Davies Guest

    * Ilias Lazaridis <> [0410 14:10]:
    > jamPersist.Ruby.??? is the second step:
    > http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/index.html
    >
    > step for what?
    >
    > To showcase (busy) evaluators within 20 min. the superiority of ruby.
    >
    > in a direct, quick and simple comparison to other languages / systems.
    > This should be of intrest for the ruby community.
    >
    > A simple give an take.


    There is no 'give' from you Ilias, you are just pootling amay at
    'EVALUATION's nobody will ever read. Like you have been for years.

    If people want to know about Ruby they could ask on the list quite
    easily. We put up with any number of questions, you are living proof
    of that.

    > -
    >
    > But as it looks, I have to do all the work myself.


    Good idea.

    --
    'Sweet Zombie Jesus!'
    -- Prof. Farnsworth
    Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
    Dick Davies, Apr 7, 2005
    #8
  9. Kirk Haines wrote:
    > Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
    >
    >>I've looked at rubyforge:
    >>
    >>http://rubyforge.org/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=66
    >>http://rubyforge.org/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=68
    >>
    >>just ActiveRecord and Og seem to be relevant for this evaluation.

    >
    > I have skipped a lot of this thread. However, if you are talking about
    > persistence layers, there are MANY more than that.
    >
    > Kansas (http://enigo.com/projects/kansas),


    seems to be in development.

    status: alpha.

    -

    http://enigo.com/projects/kansas/tutorial/why_use_it.html

    contains SQL code.

    missed requirement: transparency

    -

    product rejected.

    > Lafcadio (http://lafcadio.rubyforge.org)


    "It currently supports MySQL. in the future it will support a wide range
    of databases."

    missed requirement: support multiple databases.

    -

    product rejected.

    >, Criteria ([not an ORM, but a layer for SQL
    > abstraction] http://mephle.org/Criteria),


    SQL-centric: rejected.

    > Madeline, Pstore, and KirbyBase pop immediately to mind.


    requirements: stable or at least a beta, transparency, multiple datastores.

    ?

    (still, just ActiveRecord and Og pass the initial requirements)

    > Kirk Haines
    >



    --
    http://lazaridis.com
    Ilias Lazaridis, Apr 7, 2005
    #9
  10. Ilias Lazaridis

    Kirk Haines Guest

    Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

    >> Kansas (http://enigo.com/projects/kansas),

    >
    > seems to be in development.
    >
    > status: alpha.


    AR is in development, too. I should probably update that info, but the fact
    is that Kansas is a lightweight, simple, stable system with fairly few
    "unimplemented features" (my buzzword for bugs ;) used across a veriety of
    production applications, in one version or another, for well over a year
    and currently servicing several million transactions a day. So, it
    probably should not be listed as alpha, though the version number will stay
    low because it isn't what I want it to be, yet.

    As for "Contains SQL code". What are you talking about?

    sodiums = dbh.select:)Chemicals, :Manufacturers) do |c,m|
    (c.chemical_name =~ '%sodium%') && (c.manufacturer.name =~ '%flynn%')
    end

    chlorides = dbh.select:)Chemicals) {|c| c.chemical_name =~ '%chloride%'}

    sodium_chlorides = sodiums & chlorides

    sodium_chlorides.each {|x| x.chemical_name = x.chemical_name.upcase}

    That hardly looks like SQL.


    Kirk Haines
    Kirk Haines, Apr 7, 2005
    #10
  11. Kirk Haines wrote:
    > Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
    >
    >>>Kansas (http://enigo.com/projects/kansas),

    >>
    >>seems to be in development.
    >>
    >>status: alpha.

    >
    > AR is in development, too. I should probably update that info, but the fact
    > is that Kansas is a lightweight, simple, stable system with fairly few
    > "unimplemented features" (my buzzword for bugs ;) used across a veriety of
    > production applications, in one version or another, for well over a year
    > and currently servicing several million transactions a day. So, it
    > probably should not be listed as alpha,


    yes, you should change this.

    > though the version number will stay
    > low because it isn't what I want it to be, yet.
    >
    > As for "Contains SQL code". What are you talking about?


    I've provide a link:

    http://enigo.com/projects/kansas/tutorial/why_use_it.html

    I've overflow the document - and have overseen "The ordinary way".

    You should possibly focus on the strength of your product, and show
    immediately this compact code:

    "
    def getData
    result = []
    application.dbpool.getConnection do |ksdbh|
    ksdbh.select('DailyNav').each do |nav|
    result.push nav
    end
    end
    result
    end
    "

    -

    would you like to try the evaluation template?

    "
    http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/index.html

    there are ready evaluations of another products, thus you can understand
    the sequence easier, e.g.:

    http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/schevo.html
    "

    ..

    --
    http://lazaridis.com
    Ilias Lazaridis, Apr 8, 2005
    #11
  12. Ilias Lazaridis

    Jacob Fugal Guest

    On Apr 8, 2005 8:09 AM, Ilias Lazaridis <> wrote:
    > Kirk Haines wrote:
    > > As for "Contains SQL code". What are you talking about?

    >
    > I've provide a link:
    >
    > http://enigo.com/projects/kansas/tutorial/why_use_it.html
    >
    > I've overflow the document - and have overseen "The ordinary way".


    When others direct you at helpful links, try reading the document
    instead of "overflowing" it then making knee-jerk posts. The "Ordinary
    Way" section is a detail of what is necessary *without* Kansas (or
    some other ORM layer). It is _immediately_ followed by the improved
    code Kansas instead allows you to write.

    I've been lurking on this thread and giving you the benefit of the
    doubt, Ilias. But this sort of "research" confirms the suspicions of
    others. You are at best lazy, trying to get others to do your work; at
    worst a troll.

    Jacob Fugal
    Jacob Fugal, Apr 8, 2005
    #12
  13. Ilias Lazaridis, Apr 8, 2005
    #13
  14. Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
    > [EVALUATION] - E03 - jamLang Evaluation Case Applied to Ruby
    > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/msg/412943e7c6ed6968
    >
    > The above thread was exceptionally productive.
    >
    > http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/ruby.html
    >
    > [as it looks, i will take ruby as the "reference" and compare other
    > languages against it]
    >
    > -
    >
    > The next (more practical) evaluation is persistence:
    >
    > http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/index.html
    >
    > there are ready evaluations of another products, thus you can understand
    > the sequence easier, e.g.:
    >
    > http://lazaridis.com/case/persist/schevo.html
    >
    > you can simply take the above sequence and apply it to the library /
    > product that you suggest for ruby persistency.
    >
    > [alternatively, you can just suggest the library/product to use - or
    > provide a pointer to listing]


    As it looks, I will make the evaluations by myself.

    Thanks for any postive assistance so far.

    ..

    --
    http://lazaridis.com
    Ilias Lazaridis, Apr 8, 2005
    #14
  15. Ilias Lazaridis

    Ben Giddings Guest

    On Friday 08 April 2005 17:14, Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
    > please avoid further off-topic comments.


    class FightClubRules
    # 1
    def to_s
    ""
    end

    # 2
    def inspect
    ""
    end

    # 3
    def over?
    @fighters.each do |f|
    return true if f.limp? or f.gets =~ /stop!/
    end
    false
    end

    # 4
    def add_fighter(fighter)
    @fighters ||= []
    @fighters.size <= 2 or raise "Too many fighters!"
    @fighters << fighter
    end

    # 5
    include Singleton

    # 6
    def clothing_valid?
    @fighters.each do |f|
    return false if f.clothing.include?:)shirt) or
    f.clothing.include?:)shoes)
    end
    true
    end

    # 7
    def timer_expired?; false; end

    # 8
    def initialize(crowd)
    crowd.each do |visitor|
    if visitor.first_visit?
    add_fighter(visitor)
    end
    end
    end
    end
    Ben Giddings, Apr 8, 2005
    #15
  16. I love it :)

    On Apr 8, 2005 11:11 PM, Ben Giddings <> wrote:
    > On Friday 08 April 2005 17:14, Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
    > > please avoid further off-topic comments.

    >
    > class FightClubRules
    > # 1
    > def to_s
    > ""
    > end
    >
    > # 2
    > def inspect
    > ""
    > end
    >
    > # 3
    > def over?
    > @fighters.each do |f|
    > return true if f.limp? or f.gets =~ /stop!/
    > end
    > false
    > end
    >
    > # 4
    > def add_fighter(fighter)
    > @fighters ||= []
    > @fighters.size <= 2 or raise "Too many fighters!"
    > @fighters << fighter
    > end
    >
    > # 5
    > include Singleton
    >
    > # 6
    > def clothing_valid?
    > @fighters.each do |f|
    > return false if f.clothing.include?:)shirt) or
    > f.clothing.include?:)shoes)
    > end
    > true
    > end
    >
    > # 7
    > def timer_expired?; false; end
    >
    > # 8
    > def initialize(crowd)
    > crowd.each do |visitor|
    > if visitor.first_visit?
    > add_fighter(visitor)
    > end
    > end
    > end
    > end
    >
    >
    Douglas Livingstone, Apr 9, 2005
    #16
  17. Ilias Lazaridis

    Glenn Parker Guest

    Jacob Fugal wrote:
    >
    > I've been lurking on this thread and giving you the benefit of the
    > doubt, Ilias. But this sort of "research" confirms the suspicions of
    > others. You are at best lazy, trying to get others to do your work; at
    > worst a troll.


    I think I've figured it out: he's actually an Eliza program. This would
    easily explain his inability to produce truly original or thoughtful
    responses. And when the Eliza program hits a dead end, we get "please
    avoid further off-topic comments."

    --
    Glenn Parker | glenn.parker-AT-comcast.net | <http://www.tetrafoil.com/>
    Glenn Parker, Apr 9, 2005
    #17
  18. Glenn Parker wrote:
    > I think I've figured it out: he's actually an Eliza program.


    Why do you think you've figured it out?

    :)
    Steven Jenkins, Apr 9, 2005
    #18
  19. Ilias Lazaridis

    Bill Guindon Guest

    On Apr 9, 2005 12:41 PM, Steven Jenkins <> wrote:
    > Glenn Parker wrote:
    > > I think I've figured it out: he's actually an Eliza program.

    >
    > Why do you think you've figured it out?
    >
    > :)
    >


    Why do you ask why do I think I've figured it out?

    --
    Bill Guindon (aka aGorilla)
    Bill Guindon, Apr 9, 2005
    #19
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