Event Handling via CSS

[c.janardhanreddy]

Hi,

I have seen sites using css attribute like "hover" to make dynamic
websites.

In some sites most elements don't have direct event handlers like
'mouseover', 'mouseout' etc attached to html elements. Instead they
use CSS. Could any one you give me some idea about invoking
JavaScript event handlers via css for CSS attributes like "hover"?

E.g: In hp.com, tabs like 'Support & Drivers' or 'Shop for Products'
are <a> HTML elements which don't have any event handlers directly
attached to them. Still they modify the DOM on mouseover/out. I
believe they are done via CSS. Could any body of you please give me
some guidance regarding this ?

Thanks in Advance,
Janardhan

 

[Erwin Moller]

(e-mail address removed) schreef:

Hi,

I have seen sites using css attribute like "hover" to make dynamic
websites.

In some sites most elements don't have direct event handlers like
'mouseover', 'mouseout' etc attached to html elements. Instead they
use CSS. Could any one you give me some idea about invoking
JavaScript event handlers via css for CSS attributes like "hover"?

E.g: In hp.com, tabs like 'Support & Drivers' or 'Shop for Products'
are <a> HTML elements which don't have any event handlers directly
attached to them. Still they modify the DOM on mouseover/out. I
believe they are done via CSS. Could any body of you please give me
some guidance regarding this ?

Thanks in Advance,
Janardhan

Hi,

You do not define JavaScript eventhandlers in your CSS declaration.
You should add them via JavaScript.
The hover behaviour you mentioned is something that is fully defined in
CSS. (Just google for 'hover css')

Regards,
Erwin Moller


--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare

 

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

You appear to have acquired a number of misconceptions and false
terminology, which hinder understanding.

I have seen sites using css attribute like "hover" to make dynamic
websites.

Those are pseudo-classes, not attributes:

In some sites most elements don't have direct event handlers like
'mouseover', 'mouseout' etc attached to html elements. Instead they
use CSS. Could any one you give me some idea about invoking
JavaScript event handlers via css for CSS attributes like "hover"?

`mouseover', `mouseout' etc. are _not_ "event handlers", those are event
types. There is also no such thing as "JavaScript event handlers". And
even if there were, you could not "invoke" them "via css"; CSS is merely
a formatting language.

<http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/>

When the user or a program does something in a user agent, an event
occurs. That may create an event object to propagate the event in the
document tree.

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-flow>
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/NOTE-DOM-Level-3-Events-20031107/events.html#Events-flow>

It may also, rather independently of the DOM, trigger a style sheet selector
that uses a dynamic pseudo-class.

DOM implementations provide internal event-handlers so that code may
handle these events. Event-handlers call one or more event-listeners; the
latter can be added with implementations that implement specified interfaces.

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-EventListener>
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/NOTE-DOM-Level-3-Events-20031107/events.html#Events-listeners>

HTML elements provide event-handler attributes which value is supposed to be
code written in a scripting language that is executed when the event occurs.

<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html#h-18.2.3>

(Here event-handler attributes are called "events"; watch the date of this
Specification and don't let yourself be confused by this.)

DOM objects may provide proprietary event-handler properties which value is
supposed to be (a reference to) a callable object that contains the code to
be executed on event. If such a DOM object represents an element in the
document, then that element does not need to have one of the aforementioned
event-handler attributes specified, provided there is an event-handler
property for that attribute.

There are also proprietary events and corresponding event-handler properties
that have no corresponding event-handler attribute in Valid markup, e.g.
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/element#Event_Handlers>

(Noticed that there has been no mentioning of JavaScript until here? For
these features are independent of a programming language.)

Now, DOM implementations also provide properties that implement interfaces
of CSS-related APIs:

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Style/css.html>

You can use these properties to manipulate style sheets, e.g.

element.style.display = "none";

to prevent an the element that is represented by the object `element' refers
to from being rendered.

However, you only need to do this for user agents that do not support the
corresponding CSS property, or pseudo-class for the element in question, or
CSS at all.

E.g: In hp.com, tabs like 'Support & Drivers' or 'Shop for Products'
are <a> HTML elements which don't have any event handlers directly
attached to them. Still they modify the DOM on mouseover/out.

If anything, they would modify the document tree; the DOM is a *model*, an
API instead, and usually not modified by an application using it. (In fact,
it is strongly recommended against trying to modify a DOM implementation on
the fly; the objects provided are *host* *objects*, not, e.g. ECMAScript
native objects.)

I believe they are done via CSS.

The content is styled with CSS, but I presume the content is exchanged with
the IXMLHTTPRequest API (XHR, also known as AJAX -- Asynchronous JavaScript
and XML).

<https://developer.mozilla.org/en/AJAX>

Of course, this doesn't work where XHR support is unavailable, and it can
cause considerable delays if XHR support is available but there is small
bandwidth or the display device is a mobile one.

In fact, the whole HP website is not exactly a showcase of good Web
authoring. Starts with

<http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http://www.hp.com/#Support>
| 105 Errors, 15 warnings

<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css3&warning=2&uri=http://www.hp.com/#Support>
| Sorry! We found the following errors (6)

and ends with their using jQuery from which you should stay far away at
least at this point of its development. (Search the archives. JFTR:
I have very fast Internet access here, and a reasonably fast CPU, OS, and
browser[1]; yet switching from one section to the other through mouseover
takes about half a second! Talk about code efficiency ...)

Could any body of you please give me some guidance regarding this ?

[x] done


HTH

PointedEars
___________
[1] Cable Internet access, 15000 kbps downstream top;
Pentium M 740, 1 GB RAM;
Debian GNU/Linux lenny/testing/unstable/experimental,
Linux 2.6.28.8-20090322.180402, 1 GB Swap;
KDE 3.5.9.dfsg.1-6, Firefox/Iceweasel 3.0.6

 

[SAM]

Le 4/20/09 2:37 PM, (e-mail address removed) a écrit :

Hi,

I have seen sites using css attribute like "hover" to make dynamic
websites.

In some sites most elements don't have direct event handlers like
'mouseover', 'mouseout' etc attached to html elements. Instead they
use CSS. Could any one you give me some idea about invoking
JavaScript event handlers via css for CSS attributes like "hover"?

E.g: In hp.com, tabs like 'Support & Drivers' or 'Shop for Products'
are <a> HTML elements which don't have any event handlers directly
attached to them. Still they modify the DOM on mouseover/out. I
believe they are done via CSS. Could any body of you please give me
some guidance regarding this ?

After the other answers you can go to a site that uses and demosntrates
this "css-event"
<http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/index.html>
fun : <http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/streaker>
panoramic scroller :
<http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/scroller>

 

[Erwin Moller]

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn schreef:

You appear to have acquired a number of misconceptions and false
terminology, which hinder understanding.



Those are pseudo-classes, not attributes:



`mouseover', `mouseout' etc. are _not_ "event handlers", those are event
types. There is also no such thing as "JavaScript event handlers". And
even if there were, you could not "invoke" them "via css"; CSS is merely
a formatting language.

Hi Thomas,

The part 'There is also no such thing as "JavaScript event handlers".'
was a surprise to me.
I always thought of this matter in oversimplified terms, like: "the
browser can generate an event of a certain type that can invoke a
certainJavaScript event handler."
Oversimplified view I see now.
Clear posting.

<snipped good explanation to spare bandwidth>

Regards,
Erwin Moller



--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare

 

[c.janardhanreddy]

You appear to have acquired a number of misconceptions and false
terminology, which hinder understanding.

I have seen sites using css attribute like "hover" to make dynamic
websites.

Those are pseudo-classes, not attributes:

In some sites most elements don't have direct event handlers like
'mouseover', 'mouseout' etc  attached to html elements. Instead they
use CSS.  Could any one you give me some idea about invoking
JavaScript event handlers via css for CSS attributes like "hover"?

`mouseover', `mouseout' etc. are _not_ "event handlers", those are event
types.  There is also no such thing as "JavaScript event handlers".  And
even if there were, you could not "invoke" them "via css"; CSS is merely
a formatting language.

<http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/>

When the user or a program does something in a user agent, an event
occurs.  That may create an event object to propagate the event in the
document tree.

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-flow>
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/NOTE-DOM-Level-3-Events-20031107/events.htm...>

It may also, rather independently of the DOM, trigger a style sheet selector
that uses a dynamic pseudo-class.

DOM implementations provide internal event-handlers so that code may
handle these events.  Event-handlers call one or more event-listeners; the
latter can be added with implementations that implement specified interfaces.

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-EventListener>
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/NOTE-DOM-Level-3-Events-20031107/events.htm...>

HTML elements provide event-handler attributes which value is supposed tobe
code written in a scripting language that is executed when the event occurs.

<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html#h-18.2.3>

(Here event-handler attributes are called "events"; watch the date of this
Specification and don't let yourself be confused by this.)

DOM objects may provide proprietary event-handler properties which value is
supposed to be (a reference to) a callable object that contains the code to
be executed on event.  If such a DOM object represents an element in the
document, then that element does not need to have one of the aforementioned
event-handler attributes specified, provided there is an event-handler
property for that attribute.

There are also proprietary events and corresponding event-handler properties
that have no corresponding event-handler attribute in Valid markup, e.g.
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/element#Event_Handlers>

(Noticed that there has been no mentioning of JavaScript until here?  For
these features are independent of a programming language.)

Now, DOM implementations also provide properties that implement interfaces
of CSS-related APIs:

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Style/css.html>

You can use these properties to manipulate style sheets, e.g.

  element.style.display = "none";

to prevent an the element that is represented by the object `element' refers
to from being rendered.

However, you only need to do this for user agents that do not support the
corresponding CSS property, or pseudo-class for the element in question, or
CSS at all.

E.g: In hp.com, tabs like 'Support & Drivers' or 'Shop for Products'
are <a> HTML elements which don't have any event handlers directly
attached to them. Still they modify the DOM on mouseover/out.

If anything, they would modify the document tree; the DOM is a *model*, an
API instead, and usually not modified by an application using it.  (In fact,
it is strongly recommended against trying to modify a DOM implementation on
the fly; the objects provided are *host* *objects*, not, e.g. ECMAScript
native objects.)

I believe they are done via CSS.

The content is styled with CSS, but I presume the content is exchanged with
 the IXMLHTTPRequest API (XHR, also known as AJAX -- Asynchronous JavaScript
and XML).

<https://developer.mozilla.org/en/AJAX>

Of course, this doesn't work where XHR support is unavailable, and it can
cause considerable delays if XHR support is available but there is small
bandwidth or the display device is a mobile one.

In fact, the whole HP website is not exactly a showcase of good Web
authoring.  Starts with

<http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http://www.hp.com%2...>
| 105 Errors, 15 warnings

<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css3&warning=2&u...>
| Sorry! We found the following errors (6)

and ends with their using jQuery from which you should stay far away at
least at this point of its development.  (Search the archives.  JFTR:
I have very fast Internet access here, and a reasonably fast CPU, OS, and
browser[1]; yet switching from one section to the other through mouseover
takes about half a second!  Talk about code efficiency ...)

Could any body of you please give me some guidance regarding this ?

[x] done

HTH

PointedEars
___________
[1] Cable Internet access, 15000 kbps downstream top;
    Pentium M 740, 1 GB RAM;
    Debian GNU/Linux lenny/testing/unstable/experimental,
      Linux 2.6.28.8-20090322.180402, 1 GB Swap;
    KDE 3.5.9.dfsg.1-6, Firefox/Iceweasel 3.0.6

Hi,

Thanks for sharing valuable information, I need to get the pseudo-
classes(.hover .active etc) attached to elements via CSS. I got the
DOM nodelist using
var nodelist = document.getElementsByTagName('*'). Is there any way
that i could get pseudo-class for each element(nodelist[0]).

I found one way in getting hover as below:
var rule = window.document.styleSheets[0].cssRules[0];
rule.selectorText;but this eats up the process Speed if website have
multiple CSS files.

Could you please help in getting pseudo-class using the nodelist.

Thanks in Advance.
Janardhan

 

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Now, DOM implementations also provide properties that implement interfaces
of CSS-related APIs:

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Style/css.html>

You can use these properties to manipulate style sheets, e.g.

element.style.display = "none";

to prevent an the element that is represented by the object `element' refers
to from being rendered.

However, you only need to do this for user agents that do not support the
corresponding CSS property, or pseudo-class for the element in question, or
CSS at all.

In the last case, it does not work no matter how you do it, of course. If
CSS is not supported, you cannot trigger it with scripting as well. So you
can ignore this particular case. (However, previous UAs that do not support
CSS really, may support CSS-like properties. For example, Netscape 4.x does
support a `visibility' property for certain elements: element.visibility =
"hide".)


PointedEars

 

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

[snipped full quote]
Thanks for sharing valuable information,

Thank you for trimming quotes to the relevant minimum next time. I (and
everybody else) know what a wrote.

I need to get the pseudo-classes(.hover .active etc)

The pseudo-classes are `:hover' and `:active', respectively. The colon
distinguishes them against "normal" classes which start with a dot in the
stylesheet (`.foobar').

attached to elements via CSS.

To format `a' elements in the document so that their text color turns red
when the pointer is placed on it:

a:hover {
color: red;
}

(Selectors with greater specificity not considered, of course. See also
<http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/color>.)

Plain CSS is off-topic here, though.

I got the DOM nodelist using
var nodelist = document.getElementsByTagName('*'). Is there any way
that i could get pseudo-class for each element(nodelist[0]).

Yes, theoretically you could use the document.styleSheets collection and
find out if a selector in a stylesheet using a dynamic pseudo-class applies
to the element in question.

However, you are still going about this the wrong way; CSS has nothing to do
with DOM events. What are you trying to do anyway, and why?


PointedEars

 

[Roger]

You appear to have acquired a number of misconceptions and false
terminology, which hinder understanding.



Those are pseudo-classes, not attributes:



`mouseover', `mouseout' etc. are _not_ "event handlers", those are event
types.  There is also no such thing as "JavaScript event handlers".  And
even if there were, you could not "invoke" them "via css"; CSS is merely
a formatting language.

<http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/>

When the user or a program does something in a user agent, an event
occurs.  That may create an event object to propagate the event in the
document tree.

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-flow>
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/NOTE-DOM-Level-3-Events-20031107/events.htm...>

It may also, rather independently of the DOM, trigger a style sheet selector
that uses a dynamic pseudo-class.

DOM implementations provide internal event-handlers so that code may
handle these events.  Event-handlers call one or more event-listeners; the
latter can be added with implementations that implement specified interfaces.

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-EventListener>
<http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/NOTE-DOM-Level-3-Events-20031107/events.htm...>

HTML elements provide event-handler attributes which value is supposed tobe
code written in a scripting language that is executed when the event occurs.

<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/scripts.html#h-18.2.3>

(Here event-handler attributes are called "events"; watch the date of this
Specification and don't let yourself be confused by this.)

DOM objects may provide proprietary event-handler properties which value is
supposed to be (a reference to) a callable object that contains the code to
be executed on event.  If such a DOM object represents an element in the
document, then that element does not need to have one of the aforementioned
event-handler attributes specified, provided there is an event-handler
property for that attribute.

There are also proprietary events and corresponding event-handler properties
that have no corresponding event-handler attribute in Valid markup, e.g.
<https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/element#Event_Handlers>

(Noticed that there has been no mentioning of JavaScript until here?  For
these features are independent of a programming language.)

Now, DOM implementations also provide properties that implement interfaces
of CSS-related APIs:

<http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Style/css.html>

You can use these properties to manipulate style sheets, e.g.

  element.style.display = "none";

to prevent an the element that is represented by the object `element' refers
to from being rendered.

However, you only need to do this for user agents that do not support the
corresponding CSS property, or pseudo-class for the element in question, or
CSS at all.


If anything, they would modify the document tree; the DOM is a *model*, an
API instead, and usually not modified by an application using it.  (In fact,
it is strongly recommended against trying to modify a DOM implementation on
the fly; the objects provided are *host* *objects*, not, e.g. ECMAScript
native objects.)


The content is styled with CSS, but I presume the content is exchanged with
 the IXMLHTTPRequest API (XHR, also known as AJAX -- Asynchronous JavaScript
and XML).

<https://developer.mozilla.org/en/AJAX>

Of course, this doesn't work where XHR support is unavailable, and it can
cause considerable delays if XHR support is available but there is small
bandwidth or the display device is a mobile one.

In fact, the whole HP website is not exactly a showcase of good Web
authoring.  Starts with

<http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http://www.hp.com%2...>
| 105 Errors, 15 warnings

<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css3&warning=2&u...>
| Sorry! We found the following errors (6)

and ends with their usingjQueryfrom which you should stay farawayat
least at this point of its development.

Or ever as they will never learn. I actually posted a message (under
a pseudonym of course) to their forum once:

http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en/msg/473e3de5293e34f8

Banned immediately for stating that jQuery uses browser sniffing.
Probably fired their moderator too.

More evidence that they are terminally stuck in the year 2000 and
there is no hope for their plug-in system:

http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en/browse_thread/thread/896ad397997595d9

Development group is nuts too:

http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-dev/browse_thread/thread/102a0e11ce86fdad

Sure, use jQuery with XHTML. It blows up real good.

Damn, banned again. Two messages, two groups, two bans. Has to make
you wonder why they are so scared of criticism and why they would try
to shield their users from relevant issues. Doesn't really bode well
for the future and past and present versions are obviously out of the
question.

Speaking of the future, I think most of the "supported browsers" have
QSA now.

This is Sizzle:

if ( document.querySelectorAll ) (function(){
var oldSizzle = Sizzle, div = document.createElement("div");
div.innerHTML = "<p class='TEST'></p>";

// Safari can't handle uppercase or unicode characters when
// in quirks mode.
if ( div.querySelectorAll && div.querySelectorAll(".TEST").length ===
0 ) {
return;
}

Sizzle = function(query, context, extra, seed){
context = context || document;

// Only use querySelectorAll on non-XML documents
// (ID selectors don't work in non-HTML documents)
if ( !seed && context.nodeType === 9 && !isXML(context) ) {
try {
return makeArray( context.querySelectorAll(query), extra );


Note. No steak.


} catch(e){}
}

return oldSizzle(query, context, extra, seed);
};

Sizzle.find = oldSizzle.find;
Sizzle.filter = oldSizzle.filter;
Sizzle.selectors = oldSizzle.selectors;
Sizzle.matches = oldSizzle.matches;
})();

I recognize *that* pattern. Now if people can figure out that
"chaining" is just:

return this;

....nobody will feel compelled to rely on jQuery's Script of the Month
Club again.

 

[David Mark]

[snip]

Or ever as they will never learn.  I actually posted a message (under
a pseudonym of course) to their forum once:

Oops, posted this under the same alias. Dear moderator, please don't
ban "Roger"; he's a good guy!

 

[Garrett Smith]

[snip]

Or ever as they will never learn. I actually posted a message (under
a pseudonym of course) to their forum once:

Oops, posted this under the same alias. Dear moderator, please don't
ban "Roger"; he's a good guy!

Funny. I can go to the jQuery development groups and criticize jQuery
but I don't get banned.

I'm not overly friendly there. I hold some contempt for the effect
jQuery has had on my industry and also get annoyed when posters do not
include examples.

But I'm not calling people idiots and buffoons, either. I wonder if that
might have something to do with it.

Garrett

 

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

Oops, posted this under the same alias. Dear moderator, please don't
ban "Roger"; he's a good guy!

Either I don't get the joke (and the whole "Roger" thing at all) or you need
to be told: there is no moderator here.


PointedEars

 

[David Mark]

[snip]

Or ever as they will never learn.  I actually posted a message (under
a pseudonym of course) to their forum once:

Oops, posted this under the same alias.  Dear moderator, please don't
ban "Roger"; he's a good guy!

Funny. I can go to the jQuery development groups and criticize jQuery
but I don't get banned.

That is queer.

I'm not overly friendly there. I hold some contempt for the effect
jQuery has had on my industry and also get annoyed when posters do not
include examples.

But I'm not calling people idiots and buffoons, either. I wonder if that
might have something to do with it.

Is that supposed to be a joke? "Roger" didn't call anyone anything.
You really should refrain from knee-jerk reactions.

 

[David Mark]

Either I don't get the joke (and the whole "Roger" thing at all) or you need
to be told: there is no moderator here.

The whole thing is this. jQuery devotees often decry the fact that
criticism is posted here, rather than in the jQuery forums.
Obviously, the experiment would have been biased had I attempted to
post under my real name (considering that I am the one that originally
exposed jQuery as intellectually bankrupt, not to mention that they
aped my code in their latest release.)

So, I posted a couple of sentences in reply to a person who wanted to
combine jQuery 1.2x and MooTools. (!) Just said it used browser
sniffing. Here's the response:

http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en/msg/3ee975bc6332133e

"1.3 has no browser sniffing at all. That said, I don't see how
browser sniffing relates whatsoever to two libraries both functioning
on the same page."

I'm sure he can't see how two distinct blobs of browser sniffing in
the same document would be a nightmare.

Of course 1.3x has browser sniffing. It's full of it and history
shows that it would still be sniffing the *UA string* if not for my
input. For some reason they are pissed off about that and so are
their users. (?)

I suppose some people can go over there and discuss code they've never
read (or remotely influenced) without getting banned. I guess Resig's
feelings are what matters most. Don't cry for him though as he has
only himself to blame (in every conceivable way.)

 

[Ricardo]

Or ever as they will never learn.  I actually posted a message (under
a pseudonym of course) to their forum once:

http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en/msg/473e3de5293e34f8

Banned immediately for stating that jQuery uses browser sniffing.
Probably fired their moderator too.  

More evidence that they are terminally stuck in the year 2000 and
there is no hope for their plug-in system:

http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en/browse_thread/thread/896ad39...

Development group is nuts too:

http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-dev/browse_thread/thread/102a0e...

Sure, use jQuery with XHTML.  It blows up real good.

Damn, banned again.  Two messages, two groups, two bans.  Has to make
you wonder why they are so scared of criticism and why they would try
to shield their users from relevant issues.  Doesn't really bode well
for the future and past and present versions are obviously out of the
question.

Speaking of the future, I think most of the "supported browsers" have
QSA now.

This is Sizzle:

if ( document.querySelectorAll ) (function(){
        var oldSizzle = Sizzle, div = document.createElement("div");
        div.innerHTML = "<p class='TEST'></p>";

        // Safari can't handle uppercase or unicode characters when
        // in quirks mode.
        if ( div.querySelectorAll && div.querySelectorAll(".TEST").length ===
0 ) {
                return;
        }

        Sizzle = function(query, context, extra, seed){
                context = context || document;

                // Only use querySelectorAll on non-XML documents
                // (ID selectors don't work in non-HTML documents)
                if ( !seed && context.nodeType === 9 && !isXML(context) ) {
                        try {
                                return makeArray( context.querySelectorAll(query), extra );

Note.  No steak.

                        } catch(e){}
                }

                return oldSizzle(query, context, extra, seed);
        };

        Sizzle.find = oldSizzle.find;
        Sizzle.filter = oldSizzle.filter;
        Sizzle.selectors = oldSizzle.selectors;
        Sizzle.matches = oldSizzle.matches;

})();

I recognize *that* pattern.  Now if people can figure out that
"chaining" is just:

return this;

...nobody will feel compelled to rely on jQuery's Script of the Month
Club again.

You seem to enjoy being banned. You certainly use aliases for a "good"
reason...

In response to "please keep discussions on track and civil":
"Nice sentiment. Do you own the place? If so, you are a really lousy
moderator (especially since you don't follow the discussions
closely.)"

"I dare you to ban me (would be your loss.)"

About future enhancements plans for jQuery:
"Then everybody can upgrade your monolithic mess again?
Is this project a long-running practical joke are are you really
serious?"

For an expert, your understanding of frameworks seems flabby. XHTML
served as application/xhtml+xml is not a reality in the web right now
for lack of support. jQuery is aimed at development of real websites.
If that's not your game just forget it.

 

[David Mark]

You seem to enjoy being banned. You certainly use aliases for a "good"
reason...

LOL. A *very* good reason. Resig would never let me in that group.
Would have biased the results for sure.

In response to "please keep discussions on track and civil":
"Nice sentiment.  Do you own the place?  If so, you are a really lousy
moderator (especially since you don't follow the discussions
closely.)"

Who are you talking to?

"I dare you to ban me (would be your loss.)"

And wouldn't you know? He actually *did* (despite the public
outcry.) Supposed to outgrow taking dares by five.

About future enhancements plans for jQuery:
"Then everybody can upgrade your monolithic mess again?
Is this project a long-running practical joke are are you really
serious?"

For an expert, your understanding of frameworks seems flabby. XHTML

Did you mean "expert?" Flabby? As in fat?

served as application/xhtml+xml is not a reality in the web right now

Thanks for that nugget, "Ricardo." You guys do operate with blinders
on, don't you? Of all of the library authors on the planet (quite a
few these days), you picked the *one* who has actually published an
XHTML compatible library. So much for luck.

for lack of support. jQuery is aimed at development of real websites.

See, that is where you are wrong. For an "expert", your understanding
seems acutely anorexic. I remember you as the one who recommended
using an htmlFor attribute in markup to work around jQuery's idiotic
attr method. For God's sake.

If that's not your game just forget it.

Of course, the entire point was that Resig didn't realize what you
just tried to say. jQuery cannot run in an XHTML DOM. Of course, it
isn't too hot with HTML either. Or XML for that matter. It's pretty
much a train wreck in any language which is unsurprising given the
conductors.

 

[Garrett Smith]

The whole thing is this. jQuery devotees often decry the fact that
criticism is posted here, rather than in the jQuery forums.
Obviously, the experiment would have been biased had I attempted to
post under my real name (considering that I am the one that originally
exposed jQuery as intellectually bankrupt, not to mention that they
aped my code in their latest release.)

So, I posted a couple of sentences in reply to a person who wanted to
combine jQuery 1.2x and MooTools. (!) Just said it used browser
sniffing. Here's the response:

http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en/msg/3ee975bc6332133e

"1.3 has no browser sniffing at all. That said, I don't see how
browser sniffing relates whatsoever to two libraries both functioning
on the same page."

I'm sure he can't see how two distinct blobs of browser sniffing in
the same document would be a nightmare.

Of course 1.3x has browser sniffing. It's full of it and history
shows that it would still be sniffing the *UA string* if not for my
input. For some reason they are pissed off about that and so are
their users. (?)

Right.

Mootools does a lot of modification to host and built-in objects'
prototypes. It is not recommended to run that library with other
libraries in the same page.

In rereading your post on the jQuery list, I agree 100%.

Garrett

 

[David Mark]

Right.

Mootools does a lot of modification to host and built-in objects'
prototypes. It is not recommended to run that library with other
libraries in the same page.

Outstanding point (which I somehow neglected.) Neither of those
scripts filters for-in loops.

In rereading your post on the jQuery list, I agree 100%.

I think we agree on most points, but the communication breaks down
occasionally. It is good that you are lending a hand over there (I
assume you are telling people how to do things properly, which
typically excludes jQuery.) Hopefully they won't ban you for that.
In any event, I think it is too late for them to survive as anything
but a curiosity.

 

[Ricardo]

Who are you talking to?

No idea. Is this another alias, "David"?

Did you mean "expert?"  Flabby?  As in fat?

from wordnet.princeton.edu: (out of condition; not strong or robust;
incapable of exertion or endurance). foda-se.

Thanks for that nugget, "Ricardo."  You guys do operate with blinders
on, don't you?  Of all of the library authors on the planet (quite a
few these days), you picked the *one* who has actually published an
XHTML compatible library.  So much for luck.

Interesting, where do I find it? Given that something between 40-70%
of all browsers out there (IE) don't support yet, I guess it's only
useful in controlled environments, right?

See, that is where you are wrong.  For an "expert", your understanding
seems acutely anorexic.  I remember you as the one who recommended
using an htmlFor attribute in markup to work around jQuery's idiotic
attr method.  For God's sake.

I never said I'm an expert, I'm not. I wouldn't be surprised to know
you've been coding in javascript longer than I've been around. And I
never recommended using an htmlFor attribute as a workaround to
anything: http://groups.google.com/group/jque...39db736589a/ffb7274db43545f0#71bb5cd00535689f

I can state that the attr() method has a flaw without cursing someone
or something, "unexpected" is what I said. Do you have tourette's or
something?

Of course, the entire point was that Resig didn't realize what you
just tried to say.  jQuery cannot run in an XHTML DOM.  Of course, it
isn't too hot with HTML either.  Or XML for that matter.  It's pretty
much a train wreck in any language which is unsurprising given the
conductors.

right! jQuery can't run in XHTML served as application/xhtml+xml. It's
made to run on current web technology, which is XHTML served as text/
html, that responds for the vast majority of living websites.

About not being "too hot" with HTML, that's a personal opinion. A
great deal of web developers will disagree with you, I guess we're all
stupid for that. jQuery doesn't claim to handle XML either, wherever
it fits it's passed to the browser to take care of it.

So, who did you say can't take criticism anyway? I realized joining a
conversation with you with opposite opinions was asking for trouble,
but I didn't know it would come so fast and so low. Please refrain
from answering this if you can't keep a decent level of conversation,
I'm sure everyone will appreciate it.

thanks,
ricardo

 

[David Mark]

No idea. Is this another alias, "David"?

You missed that one.

from wordnet.princeton.edu: (out of condition; not strong or robust;
incapable of exertion or endurance). foda-se.

Doesn't really matter, does it?

Interesting, where do I find it? Given that something between 40-70%
of all browsers out there (IE) don't support yet, I guess it's only
useful in controlled environments, right?

Where can you find what? If you are referring to My Library, then you
are beyond help. Ask your fellow jQuery mavens. God knows they've
seen it. And it is obviously for (X)HTML.

I never said I'm an expert, I'm not. I wouldn't be surprised to know
you've been coding in javascript longer than I've been around.

So you are a kid? That explains a lot.

And I
never recommended using an htmlFor attribute as a workaround to
anything:http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en/browse_thread/thread/f2cff39...

Yes, you did. Though it is clear that you don't really know what you
are saying.

http://groups.google.com/group/jquery-en/msg/71bb5cd00535689f

I can state that the attr() method has a flaw without cursing someone
or something, "unexpected" is what I said. Do you have tourette's or
something?

Who cursed you? Are you delusional?

right! jQuery can't run in XHTML served as application/xhtml+xml. It's

And how it is a good thing that the author of the script doesn't know
that? Everything he says is wrong, even when talking about his own
script.

made to run on current web technology, which is XHTML served as text/
html, that responds for the vast majority of living websites.

XHTML served as HTML is not "current web technology", nor is jQuery
designed in any way to work with such a scheme. As with most of it,
it works by coincidence in some agents and configurations.

About not being "too hot" with HTML, that's a personal opinion.

No, it isn't an opinion. It is a fact. I suggest you search the
archive for "jQuery." Just read the last few weeks or so.

A
great deal of web developers will disagree with you, I guess we're all
stupid for that.

Ignorant would be more kind (though that doesn't always apply.)

jQuery doesn't claim to handle XML either, wherever
it fits it's passed to the browser to take care of it.

That is either meaningless or completely untrue. I can't decide
which.

So, who did you say can't take criticism anyway? I realized joining a
conversation with you with opposite opinions was asking for trouble,

You seem to have everything backwards.

but I didn't know it would come so fast and so low. Please refrain
from answering this if you can't keep a decent level of conversation,
I'm sure everyone will appreciate it.

What a moron.