Explaining how a (Mind) program works (Was: Re: Learning...)

Discussion in 'C++' started by Arthur T. Murray, Sep 26, 2003.

  1. "Bill Modlin" <> wrote on Fri, 26 Sep 2003:
    <snip>
    >>> If I wanted to explain how one of my programs worked
    >>> I would not give someone a print out of the code.
    >>> First I would explain it in higher level (folk psychology?)
    >>> terms and then explain how I embodied these ideas in actual code.


    >> I'm not sure why - especially if the person you're explaining it to
    >> is a programmer and knows the language.

    BM:
    > For the same reason that all good programs are liberally annotated
    > with comments. Programming languages are for controlling computers,
    > not for communicating with people. It is laborious and error prone
    > to attempt to discover the purpose of and algorithm implemented by
    > a bit of code just by inspecting that code.

    ATM:
    Nevertheless the original source code has to be made available, e.g.
    http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/jsaimind.html -- AI Mind in JavaScript;
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html -- Mind.Forth PD AI.

    BM:
    > This is true even for the original author of the code.
    > Code that seemed crystal clear and obvious at the time
    > you wrote it is often indecipherable when a year later
    > you are called upon to adjust or fix it in some fashion.


    ATM:
    The factoring of Forth and the hierarchy of objects help here,
    plus liberal comments and statements at the end of each Mind-
    Module explaining to what other Module program-flow returns:
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/progman.html -- Modules.

    BM:
    > Of course, the extensional function of each line of code is obvious
    > to anyone who knows the language. There is no mystery in a line of
    > code that says to increment the value of some variable by two:
    > it says exactly what is to happen. [...]


    > Literal quoting of code is sometimes a useful adjunct to understanding
    > of function. We all generally like to have actual source to work with.


    Yes, and so the AI4U (AI For Your) textbook of artificial intelligence at
    http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?ISBN=0595259227
    contains a full source-code listing of the AI Mind-1.1 in MSIE JavaScript.
    On September 24, 2003, a rather mean-spirited reviewer at B&N, hiding
    behind anonymity, complained that "This book is not really a textbook
    because it explains nothing. It rather is a collection of 'modules'
    which the author expects the reader to implement" -- without pointing out
    that the AI Mind modules are already implemented at the end of the book.

    Now this author is indeed trying to get Minds coded in XYZ languages:
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/cpp.html -- C++ with new AI code;
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/java.html -- see Mind.JAVA #1 & #2;
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/lisp.html -- Lisp AI Weblog;
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/perl.html -- first Perl module;
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/prolog.html -- Prolog AI Weblog;
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/python.html -- Python AI Weblog;
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/ruby.html -- Ruby AI Blog (OO AI);
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/scheme.html -- Scheme AI Weblog;
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/vb.html -- see "Mind.VB #001" link.

    BM:
    > But it is only an adjunct: the necessary ingredient for understanding
    > of non-trivial function is explanation of the principles of operation
    > in human-interpretable language.


    ATM:
    I have created every conceivable instrument of explaining the AI Mind.
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/acm.html is Steps to DIY AI.
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/standard.html -- AI Standards.
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/variable.html -- AI Variables.

    BM:
    > Given the code one may never understand what it is for.


    ATM:
    Recently I have been meeting in person with an incognito engineer
    who has volunteered to attempt to translate (port) Mind.Forth into
    http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/aicppsrc.html AI C++ Source Code.

    BM:
    > Given an understandable explanation of just what is to be done


    ATM:
    Nothing beats having a one-on-one interactive discussion of
    what is to be done to code AI and how to do it. That optimal
    option is why I have a dreamworld fantasy of hiring out to CS
    departments and AI labs to have my primitive but AI-coding
    brain picked clean and dry of any contribution I make to AI.

    > and how to do it, any programmer can produce new code
    > for a function readily enough: having an actual worked out
    > version to go by is a dispensable luxury. [...]


    A.T. Murray
    --
    http://www.bloggingnetwork.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/ai/ has been solved.
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595654371/ -- AI Textbook;
    http://www.sl4.org/archive/0205/3829.html -- Goertzel on Mentifex;
    http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/307824.307853 -- ACM SIGPLAN Mind.Forth
     
    Arthur T. Murray, Sep 26, 2003
    #1
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  2. "Arthur T. Murray" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > [...]
    > The factoring of Forth and the hierarchy of objects help here,
    > plus liberal comments and statements at the end of each Mind-
    > Module explaining to what other Module program-flow returns:
    > [link] -- Modules.


    The PROBLEM is that the only implementation of your "AI Mind"
    that I've seen run does nothing but produce a bunch of gibberish
    that would make Eliza blush and Parry scream in a fit. To foist
    such garbage on the world under the guise of AI makes you a first-
    class charlatan. At least Weizenbaum never claimed that Eliza was
    truly intelligent.

    > [...]
    > Yes, and so the AI4U (AI For Your) textbook of artificial intelligence


    You're below 500,000 on B&N's ranking, and well below 2 million
    on Amazon's ranking. You better pump up those references, Art!

    > [...]
    > On September 24, 2003, a rather mean-spirited reviewer at B&N,
    > hiding behind anonymity,


    LOL!!! As opposed to the "honest" reviewer who also implied a
    knowledge of Latin and sounds suspiciously like you? I wouldn't
    waste my time putting in a fake review for a book I haven't read,
    but if, for some reason, I had bought the book, I would have given
    a much longer review than that, believe you me.

    > complained that "This book is not really a textbook because it
    > explains nothing.


    If it's anything like your web site (and there's no reason to believe
    that it's substantially different), I think that's a pretty justifiable
    claim.

    > It rather is a collection of 'modules' which the author expects the
    > reader to implement" -- without pointing out that the AI Mind
    > modules are already implemented at the end of the book.


    Well, Forth isn't exactly a popular language (at least, not compared
    to Java, C++, etc.). And your "implementation" might produce some
    output that is interesting to someone studying randomness, but it
    hardly produces the level of AI one would expect from a book
    with the audacious subtitle "Mind 1.1 Programmer's Manual".

    > [...]
    > I have created every conceivable instrument of explaining the AI
    > Mind.
    > [...] is Steps to DIY AI.
    > [...] -- AI Standards.
    > [...] -- AI Variables.


    You're right. I couldn't possibly conceive of any other way of
    explaining an AI. For instance, I couldn't conceive of creating a test
    problem and showing how the AI solves it. I couldn't conceive of
    referencing existing AI architectures and explaining how it is better
    or worse than some other model. I couldn't conceive of writing a
    language-neutral pseudo-algorithm that gives a precise description
    of function without the distractions of a well-formed language-
    specific program.

    > [...]
    > Recently I have been meeting in person with an incognito engineer
    > who has volunteered to attempt to translate (port) Mind.Forth into
    > [...] AI C++ Source Code.


    So you found someone who doesn't know C++ very well, doesn't
    have a career ahead of him, and has nothing to lose by associating
    himself with you. Congratulations. You have a lackey. If the
    engineer is so proud to be a part of the AI4U team, why is he
    incognito?

    > [...]
    > Nothing beats having a one-on-one interactive discussion of
    > what is to be done to code AI and how to do it. That optimal
    > option is why I have a dreamworld fantasy of hiring out to CS
    > departments and AI labs to have my primitive but AI-coding
    > brain picked clean and dry of any contribution I make to AI.


    I think you've picked your own brain clean of AI, wiped the
    contents on a web site, and left it to fester in the sun. Needless
    to say, there is no CS department in the country (and probably
    not the world) that would spend one minute talking to you about
    your ideas after seeing your work. Even fresh-faced undergrads
    can see that you have nothing but smoke and mirrors...without
    the smoke...or the mirrors.

    Dave
     
    David B. Held, Sep 26, 2003
    #2
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  3. Off Topic in comp.lang.c++: Explaining how a (Mind) program works

    Please remove comp.lang.c++ from your distribution list
    when you respond to this thread.
     
    E. Robert Tisdale, Sep 26, 2003
    #3
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