FAQ companion pages.

Discussion in 'Javascript' started by Jim Ley, Jan 21, 2004.

  1. Jim Ley

    Jim Ley Guest

    Hi,

    There was some discussion of pages that expanded on ideas (I can't
    find the thread right now) that went beyond what could be said in the
    FAQ's limited space. If people create these on domains, could they
    please ensure that they can guarantee a long lifetime for them,
    resources disappearing are a real pain in the neck, I also believe it
    would be good if a number of people are able access to edit the page
    (in case the person decides, JS isn't for them and we discover the
    techniques are dangerous and need changing.)

    My site is certainly available to host anything you want, I'm
    undertaking to keep it at least for the next 5 years, and will only
    stop then if something awful happens to me. There's also lots of
    people with logins to the boxes and this will remain the case, again
    barring unforseen accidents!

    So if you're willing to write a good resource, but don't have a
    reliable long term domain to host it on, just let me know!

    Jim.
    --
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/
     
    Jim Ley, Jan 21, 2004
    #1
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  2. "Jim Ley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >There was some discussion of pages that expanded on
    >ideas ( ... ) that went beyond what could be said in the
    >FAQ's limited space.


    I am glad that you noticed that and don’t appear to have any objections
    to the idea.

    <snip>
    >My site is certainly available to host anything you want,
    >I'm undertaking to keep it at least for the next 5 years, ...

    <snip>
    >So if you're willing to write a good resource, but don't have a
    >reliable long term domain to host it on, just let me know!


    I was going to ask you if it was OK to put the notes on the FAQ on the
    jibbering server as they don’t really make sense unless they are
    available to anyone who is going to work on the FAQ in future. And they
    certainly stand a chance of going out of date over time.

    The notes I have written so far are (temporarily) at (or linked to
    from):-

    <URL: http://www.litotes.demon.co.uk/js_info/cljFAQ_Notes.html >

    (I have taken the liberty of applying faq.css to them to see what they
    would look like)

    As you have offered, may I also move the page of mine referenced by 4.39
    (square brackets) as it probably isn't guaranteed where it is in the
    long term.

    Richard.
     
    Richard Cornford, Jan 22, 2004
    #2
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  3. JRS: In article <>, seen in
    news:comp.lang.javascript, Jim Ley <> posted at Wed, 21
    Jan 2004 20:36:10 :-

    > I also believe it
    >would be good if a number of people are able access to edit the page
    >(in case the person decides, JS isn't for them and we discover the
    >techniques are dangerous and need changing.)


    IMHO, that could be dangerous.

    Either a (technical) page should have a known, identified author fully
    responsible for it (even if contributions are solicited and edited in),
    or it should *obviously* have the property of a free-for-all with no one
    person being responsible for the contents (other than the legal
    obligations of a publisher).

    We see here how frequently those who have been using and studying
    javascript for several days, maybe even a week or two, and who have read
    parts of a book too, will rush in and repeat well-known errors; we don't
    want *them* editing FAQ-linked material.

    Neither do we want it filled with Prussian netiquette pontifications.

    Even with a limited number having access, there are risks.

    Unless properly controlled, there must be a risk of two or more people
    editing the same item at the same time; or having a page confusingly
    representing multiple points of view.

    So I suggest sticking fairly near to the standard model of individual
    personal responsibility for pages, and the FAQ and (if any) aux-FAQ
    maintainers being responsible, within reason, for the suitability of
    their links.



    >So if you're willing to write a good resource, but don't have a
    >reliable long term domain to host it on, just let me know!


    Excellent.

    Such pages ought to remain accessible if the author's machine or account
    dies, or if the author loses interest; but not against the author's
    will.

    Since, Jim, you seem to have control of your Net servers, ISTM that one
    way of working would be for authors to grant you explicit permission to
    mirror named URLs, while otherwise retaining copyright; I guess you
    could arrange software to fetch changes each weekend, and perhaps to
    notify you if the page size has changed much (since that justifies
    looking at it again).

    The uk.tech.y2k mini-FAQ, a *.txt file, was robo-fetched weekly,
    by a volunteer, from www.merlyn; in this case, it was posted to
    News for me.

    The mirror would retain the page if the original vanished or could not
    be fetched.

    An author wishing to withdraw permission could notify you, and also
    could change the contents of the URL to say "Withdrawn" or "Moved".

    Presumably you know how to real with relative URLs; you *might* in
    principle want to mirror my moredate.htm but not to mirror my
    quotes.htm, but moredate has a relative link to quotes.


    Another possibility is for such material to be fully donated to the new
    custodian-on-behalf-of-the-newsgroup, copyright and all; this is
    effectively what happens with material that gets incorporated in the
    FAQ. Such pages could be noted as originated by XXXX (2004), edited by
    YYYY (2004..9), maintained by ZZZZ from 2007-08-09.

    --
    © John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 IE 4 ©
    <URL:http://jibbering.com/faq/> Jim Ley's FAQ for news:comp.lang.javascript
    <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/js-index.htm> jscr maths, dates, sources.
    <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links.
     
    Dr John Stockton, Jan 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Jim Ley

    Jim Ley Guest

    On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:37:25 +0000, Dr John Stockton
    <> wrote:

    >We see here how frequently those who have been using and studying
    >javascript for several days, maybe even a week or two, and who have read
    >parts of a book too, will rush in and repeat well-known errors; we don't
    >want *them* editing FAQ-linked material.


    Of course not, the entries are still hosted on my server, that's
    hardly a free for all, you stilll need to beg me for a login, and I
    only do that with reason. It this the fact though that very
    knowledgeable people have extremely useful content which they aren't
    making available long-term (they simply don't have the host to do it)
    jibbering.com is a long-term domain, I've undertaken to keep it so,
    complete with "if I drop dead" clauses.

    So offering to host resources (not necessarily provide them with the
    ability to log in, or change directly anything but their own.) but
    it's a lot better than losing a valuable resource - the FAQ is already
    mirroring an old post on obfuscation that was lost to the world, I
    don't want to lose others.

    >Since, Jim, you seem to have control of your Net servers, ISTM that one
    >way of working would be for authors to grant you explicit permission to
    >mirror named URLs, while otherwise retaining copyright; I guess you
    >could arrange software to fetch changes each weekend, and perhaps to
    >notify you if the page size has changed much (since that justifies
    >looking at it again).


    That is certainly possibly with the current hosting arrangements, and
    I would hope it would in future ones certainly. This is a good
    compromise situation, but I would be keen for the FAQ to link to the
    version that has a similar undertaking of longevity as the FAQ itself.
    Mainly it's up to the authors of those resources though. People have
    been known to disappear though.

    Jim.
    --
    comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/
     
    Jim Ley, Jan 23, 2004
    #4
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