FAQ Topic - What should I do before posting to comp.lang.javascript? (2008-10-17)

[FAQ server]

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FAQ Topic - What should I do before posting to
comp.lang.javascript?
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Before posting to CLJ, you should read this document.
You should also check the

http://jibbering.com/faq/#onlineResources

and the Quick Answers section and

http://www.rfc-editor.org/fyi/fyi28.txt


Search the Web, in particular the CLJ archives at

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/topics


*
*
Read all appropriate posts to the CLJ newsgroup
for several days.

*
State your question clearly and concisely.

*
Use the Subject: of your post to indicate the type of problem
you have, but include the question in the body as well.

*
For a more detailed explanation of formatting, see

http://www.jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/clj_posts.html


*
*
Quote only relevant parts of earlier messages, and add your
comments below each quoted section
(

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

).
Do not top-post.

*
Cite any part of the FAQ that applies.
Be specific and link to the relevant section.

*
Avoid being unnecessarily rude, but do not complain about other rude posts.

*
Don't quote signatures.

*
*
Try to reduce the problem as much as possible.

*
Validate the HTML

http://validator.w3.org/

*
Make sure your code is executable as transmitted.

*
Use line breaks, wrap code at 72 characters, and indent in
units of 2-3 spaces (not tabs) to show structure.

*
If the script you are including is over 300 lines, please do
not post the full script and just provide a link.

*
Mention which platforms and browsers are used or are giving
problems.

*
See also the

http://jibbering.com/faq/#debugging


*
Post in plain-text only. Do not encode it. Do not attach files.

*
Do not multi-post; cross-post if necessary.

*
*
Do not post job postings. Job postings should go to
an appropriate regional jobs group.

*
Do not post copyright material without permission
from the copyright holder.

Announcements of products relevant to javascript are welcome, but not
more often than once per major release, and then post a short
link to the product's webpage.


--
Postings such as this are automatically sent once a day. Their
goal is to answer repeated questions, and to offer the content to
the community for continuous evaluation/improvement. The complete
comp.lang.javascript FAQ is at http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html.
The FAQ workers are a group of volunteers. The sendings of these
daily posts are proficiently hosted by http://www.pair.com.

 

[Dr J R Stockton]

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FAQ Topic - What should I do before posting to CLJ?

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// The section should be split so that only which matches that
// subject is headed by that subject. Some applies to any
// posting; some applies to asking; some applies to answering.
// Some suggected changes are merely for brevity.

Before posting to CLJ, you should read this document.
You should also check the xxxxx ^ have read // ??

http://jibbering.com/faq/#onlineResources

and the Quick Answers section and

http://www.rfc-editor.org/fyi/fyi28.txt

Search the Web, in particular the CLJ archives at

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/topics

// Do we seriously expect yourself, LRN, RC, etc, to search
// the Web and archives before giving each answer?
// There's no need for an unfriendly approach; we have TL for that.
// For a large majority of common questions, inferior answers
// will be found on Web and Archives more readily than good ones;
// it is generally better NOT to search, except in the FAQ. Omit it.

Read all appropriate posts to the CLJ newsgroup
for several days.

Read recent relevant posts in CLJ.
// shorter, and is IMHO more friendly.
// Taken literally, the current wording means spending several days.

----------------------------------------
FAQ Topic - How should I post to CLJ?
----------------------------------------

State your question clearly and concisely.

// Applies only to questions ; use
Write clearly and concisely.

Use the Subject: of your post to indicate the type of problem xxxxx line xxx show
you have, but include the question in the body as well.

// Thread-starters are not necessarliy questions -
// indeed, the FAQ is not a question.

For a more detailed explanation of formatting, see

http://www.jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/clj_posts.html

Quote only relevant parts of earlier messages, and add your articles // a mere preference.
comments below each quoted section
(

http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

).
Do not top-post.

// Superfluous, and jargon.

Cite any part of the FAQ that applies. ^ specific
Be specific and link to the relevant section.

// Second line largely superfluous.

Avoid being unnecessarily rude, but do not complain about other rude posts.

Don't quote signatures.

Try to reduce the problem as much as possible.

Validate the HTML and the CSS, where relevant.

http://validator.w3.org/

Make sure your code is executable as transmitted.

that // code is not necessarily "yours"

Use line breaks, wrap code at 72 characters, and indent in

??????????????? xxxxxxxxxxxx ^ uselines no longer than

units of 2-3 spaces (not tabs) to show structure.

// "wrap" implies a mechanical process.

If the script you are including is over 300 lines, please do
not post the full script and just provide a link.

// That's weird, like "if you are doing it, don't do it".
Don't include more than about 300 lines of code; link to a Web page
instead.

Mention which platforms and browsers are used or are giving
problems.

See also the

http://jibbering.com/faq/#debugging

Post in plain-text only. Do not encode it. Do not attach files.

Do not multi-post; cross-post if necessary.

// At least one of those terms can be cited at Wikipedia.

Do not post job postings. Job postings should go to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
an appropriate regional jobs group.

Do not post copyright material without permission
from the copyright holder.

// or "Do not breach copyright." ??

Announcements of products relevant to javascript are welcome, but not

Relevant product announcements xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx no

more often than once per major release, and then post a short

xxxxx as xxxxxxxxxx

 

[Richard Cornford]

--------------------------------------------------------------
FAQ Topic - What should I do before posting to
comp.lang.javascript?
--------------------------------------------------------------

Before posting to CLJ, you should read this document.
You should also check the

http://jibbering.com/faq/#onlineResources

<snip> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

These fragment identifiers are non-function in IE 6. They should be
modified so that they are functional in current web browsers (at
absolute minimum).

Richard.

 

[dhtml]

FAQ Topic - What should I do before posting to CLJ?

// The section should be split so that only which matches that
// subject is headed by that subject. Some applies to any
// posting; some applies to asking; some applies to answering.
// Some suggected changes are merely for brevity.

Will think about that one.

[snip]

// Do we seriously expect yourself, LRN, RC, etc, to search
// the Web and archives before giving each answer?

It's good to research the subject and I think that is the intent of that
one. We want questions where it says:

"...I checked MSDN [link], w3c [link], then I read this article [link]
and it doesn't work the same here

."

Rather than: "I can't get it to work in IE. IE Sucks."

The intent of the aforementioned FAQ is to encourage research.

[QUOTE]
// There's no need for an unfriendly approach; we have TL for that.
// For a large majority of common questions, inferior answers
// will be found on Web and Archives more readily than good ones;
// it is generally better NOT to search, except in the FAQ.  Omit it.


Read recent relevant posts in CLJ.
// shorter, and is IMHO more friendly.
// Taken literally, the current wording means spending several days.

----------------------------------------
FAQ Topic - How should I post to CLJ?
----------------------------------------


// Applies only to questions ; use
Write clearly and concisely.



// Thread-starters are not necessarliy questions -
// indeed, the FAQ is not a question.
[/QUOTE]

Those two appear under the heading "How to ask a question"; If "topic"
replaces "question" then maybe the heading should be changed.

Should it be changed to "How to post?"

[QUOTE]
// Superfluous, and jargon.
[/QUOTE]

True, but in asking someone to read the FAQ, then take a break and read
and RFC and then return to the FAQ is a bit much. Just adding "Do not
top post" could help cut down on the number of top posting.

[snip - Acknowledged. Changes applied.]



Because it is under the heading "What not to post", I thought to start
with what not to post, but then begin that with "Do not post ___", for
emphasis.

I'm not sure if any amount of rewording would help that one. Spammers
seem to disregard the FAQ. I might as well post "Don't post up the
religious nonsense, racist propaganda"
[QUOTE]
// or "Do not breach copyright." ??


Relevant product announcements xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                  no
xxxxx                              as xxxxxxxxxx
[/QUOTE]
Got it, thanks.


Lots of great feedback, as usual. Thanks.

If I am late for work, I have to pay $1.

 

[Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn]

<snip> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

These fragment identifiers are non-function in IE 6. They should be
modified so that they are functional in current web browsers (at
absolute minimum).

JFTR:

These fragment identifiers in URIs work fine everywhere --
<http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix#try> this. It is only that the *anchors*
in the FAQ that they refer to are/were non-functional in several user
agents, apparently including IE 6. The anchors in question need to have a
`name' attribute, not (just) an `id' attribute.

A good and Valid solution for this problem is to let the `a' element have a
`name' and an `id' attribute with the same value (whereas both must meet the
requirements for ID values); I have also seen other people preferring not to
use the `id' attribute there in the first place, unless it is used for
applying stylesheets to that `a' element.

BTW:

<h3><a name='FAQ3_2'></a><a name="onlineResources"></a>3.2
What online resources are available?
</h3>

is _not_ the proper way to mark up anchors.

<h3><a name='FAQ3_2'></a><a name="onlineResources">3.2
What online resources are available?</a></h3>

is a proper way, however a UA may not find the first anchor because it has
no content. See the HTML 4.01 Specification, section 12.2 "The A element",
final note.

(One would assume the maintainer of a J[ava]Script/ECMAScript FAQ would know
HTML better, since one somewhat requires the other.)


PointedEars

 

[dhtml]

<snip> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

These fragment identifiers are non-function in IE 6. They should be
modified so that they are functional in current web browsers (at
absolute minimum).

I honestly don't know why they are non-functional.

FWIRC, in IE6, when navigating to a location with a fragment identifier,
the element with that ID is scrolled into view.

Since you reported that it did not work, I changed to named anchors.
This is the HTML:

<h3><a name='FAQ3_2'></a><a name="onlineResources"></a>3.2

If you (or anyone here) can provide any suggestions to make it work,
please advise. (I don't have IE6 here).

Garrett

 

[dhtml]

Richard Cornford wrote:


A good and Valid solution for this problem is to let the `a' element have a
`name' and an `id' attribute with the same value (whereas both must meet the
requirements for ID values); I have also seen other people preferring not to
use the `id' attribute there in the first place, unless it is used for
applying stylesheets to that `a' element.

If the name attribute is the lowest common denominator, ID would be
superfluous.

BTW:

<h3><a name='FAQ3_2'></a><a name="onlineResources"></a>3.2
What online resources are available?
</h3>

is _not_ the proper way to mark up anchors.

<h3><a name='FAQ3_2'></a><a name="onlineResources">3.2
What online resources are available?</a></h3>

is a proper way, however a UA may not find the first anchor because it has
no content. See the HTML 4.01 Specification, section 12.2 "The A element",
final note.

I see.

What about:

<a name='a'> </a>

or

<a name='a'>&nbsp;</a>

 

[Dr J R Stockton]

^ I *think* RC means that there should be _
an 'index.html' there.

// Do we seriously expect yourself, LRN, RC, etc, to search
// the Web and archives before giving each answer?

It's good to research the subject and I think that is the intent of
that one. We want questions where it says:

"...I checked MSDN [link], w3c [link], then I read this article [link]
and it doesn't work the same here

."

Rather than: "I can't get it to work in IE. IE Sucks."

The intent of the aforementioned FAQ is to encourage research.[/QUOTE]

Ideally.  But in the present state of News, Usenet-wide, we should be
careful not to discourage posters, even the ones that inadvertently
annoy normal people.  And newcomers often don't know enough to find a
GOOD answer on the Web.  And, without questions, the regulars here won't
be prompted to think of better answers.  Example: once upon a time, the
use of unary minus instead of most cases of parseInt and parseFloat was
unknown in CLJ.
[QUOTE] 


Those two appear under the heading "How to ask a question"; If "topic"
replaces "question" then maybe the heading should be changed.

Should it be changed to "How to post?"[/QUOTE]

Probably.  In general, any proposed change is liable to need consequent
adjustments such as that, most easily seen when the change is inserted
and done by direct Editorial judgement.  Headings, in particular, should
be user-friendly and positive where possible, otherwise neutral.

[QUOTE]
True, but in asking someone to read the FAQ, then take a break and read
and RFC and then return to the FAQ is a bit much. Just adding "Do not
top post" could help cut down on the number of top posting.[/QUOTE]

But "comments below each quoted section" fully covers the point.  Ane it
is proven that many newbies don't understand "top-post"

[QUOTE]
Because it is under the heading "What not to post", I thought to start
with what not to post, but then begin that with "Do not post ___", for
emphasis.[/QUOTE]

IMHO, the second sentence says all that the first one does, plus more,
and in a friendlier manner.  Remember that the FAQ is written for people
of goodwill to read, since there is no hope of influencing the others.


FYI : The Demon server being down, I use AIOE.  AIOE has a posts-per-day
cutoff, which is why some of my responses come later than might be
expected via Google.

 

[dhtml]

^ I *think* RC means that there should be _
an 'index.html' there.

Apparently IE6 is not linking because the named anchor is empty. FWIRC,
IE6 will link to an ID'd fragment:

<h2 id="blah">blah header</h2>

<a name="#test">see header id=blah</a>

However, Richard stated previously that the fragment identifier did not
work in IE6. Not having IE6 on hand here, I can't very well verify that.
It may have to wait until next week until I can investigate in IE6 at work.

I would like to resolve this problem before completely rearranging the
sections.

Ideally. But in the present state of News, Usenet-wide, we should be
careful not to discourage posters,

I see.

Maybe under: "How to Ask a Question" (change to "Posting") add a section:

* Cite the relevant specifications and link to them (see resources
section [link])

What do you think?

even the ones that inadvertently
annoy normal people. And newcomers often don't know enough to find a
GOOD answer on the Web. And, without questions, the regulars here won't
be prompted to think of better answers. Example: once upon a time, the
use of unary minus instead of most cases of parseInt and parseFloat was
unknown in CLJ.

Here's examples of a post: "select onchange with typing in Webkit"

The OP quickly and concisely described the problem, mentioned browsers,
cited the relevant w3c spec (inline quote and link), asked his
questions, and posted a link to a URL demonstrating the problem.

A productive discussion of the topic ensued and a conclusion was reached
quickly.

There should be more posts like that. The OP does not seem to post here
often.

But "comments below each quoted section" fully covers the point. Ane it
is proven that many newbies don't understand "top-post"

You're right. Change applied (locally).

IMHO, the second sentence says all that the first one does, plus more,
and in a friendlier manner. Remember that the FAQ is written for people
of goodwill to read, since there is no hope of influencing the others.

Saying "Job postings should go to an appropriate regional jobs group"
might sound like a suggestion; as if it such posts ideally should go
there, but that it might be OK to forgo the suggestion and post a
javascript job posting.


True that most spammers won't read the FAQ.

 

[Dr J R Stockton]

Dr J R Stockton wrote:

Maybe under: "How to Ask a Question" (change to "Posting") add a section:

* Cite the relevant specifications and link to them (see resources
section [link])

What do you think?

No. We cannot expect that questioners and others will have read the
specifications; the most that we can say is that they ought to have read
the FAQ (but probably have not), Maybe "Give all relevant information".

Here's examples of a post: "select onchange with typing in Webkit"

The OP quickly and concisely described the problem, mentioned browsers,
cited the relevant w3c spec (inline quote and link), asked his
questions, and posted a link to a URL demonstrating the problem.

A productive discussion of the topic ensued and a conclusion was
reached quickly.

There should be more posts like that. The OP does not seem to post here
often.

One swallow does not a summer make. Nor a meal.

We should not expect a large proportion of intelligently-written
questions, since the intelligent know, correctly, that most questions
can be answered by using any Javascript book or the Standards or the
Web. We must expect questions like "It gives 31/09/2008 ?" which I
received recently from an IT manager.

Saying "Job postings should go to an appropriate regional jobs group"
might sound like a suggestion; as if it such posts ideally should go
there, but that it might be OK to forgo the suggestion and post a
javascript job posting.

The suggestion would not be made if there were not the intention that it
be heeded. To get such parts of the FAQ read, they must be as brief as
possible : they should be grammatically tolerable, but need have no
literary merit. All that is needed is either "Job postings should go
to a jobs group" or "Job postings are unwelcome" ... and I doubt
whether saying it at all is of net benefit.




Since nowadays people often arrive here without any understanding of
Usenet newsgroups, how about adding a link to <http://en.wikipedia.org/w
iki/Newsgroup>? It's not perfect; but that can be fixed, and it's
better than ignorance.