favorite python web development tool?

Discussion in 'Python' started by mike, Aug 17, 2004.

  1. mike

    mike Guest

    hi all -


    i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    hope to find some suggestions here.

    given my background, webware+cheetah feels comfortingly familiar, and
    i'm leaning toward it. before i dive in, though, i'm wondering what you
    experienced users think about it, compared to the other tools that are
    out there. eg, does the python environment have strengths that are
    better exploited with something other than a servlet-like model?


    thanks for your thoughts!


    --
    pssst: ".spamguard" isn't in my real e-mail address.
     
    mike, Aug 17, 2004
    #1
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  2. mike wrote:
    > hi all -
    >
    >
    > i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    > background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    > hope to find some suggestions here.
    >
    > given my background, webware+cheetah feels comfortingly familiar, and
    > i'm leaning toward it. before i dive in, though, i'm wondering what you
    > experienced users think about it, compared to the other tools that are
    > out there. eg, does the python environment have strengths that are
    > better exploited with something other than a servlet-like model?
    >
    >
    > thanks for your thoughts!
    >
    >


    My favourite is Quixote. Although I haven't used Webware much one thing
    I can say is that Quixote is easier to grasp than Webware. It has simple
    and powerful concepts and as a Python programmer I found it quite
    intuitive. I think Quixote PTL (Python Template Language) is also the
    'right way' to do web templates. With PTL, you reuse a lot of Python
    knowledge instead of having to learn yet another template language.

    Links:
    http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/
    http://www.quixote.ca/

    --
    Shalabh
     
    Shalabh Chaturvedi, Aug 17, 2004
    #2
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  3. mike

    Phil Frost Guest

    I use Twisted + Nevow. twistedmatrix.com, divmod.org, nevow.com

    On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 03:43:22PM -0400, mike wrote:
    > hi all -
    >
    >
    > i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    > background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    > hope to find some suggestions here.
    >
    > given my background, webware+cheetah feels comfortingly familiar, and
    > i'm leaning toward it. before i dive in, though, i'm wondering what you
    > experienced users think about it, compared to the other tools that are
    > out there. eg, does the python environment have strengths that are
    > better exploited with something other than a servlet-like model?
    >
    >
    > thanks for your thoughts!
     
    Phil Frost, Aug 17, 2004
    #3
  4. mike wrote:

    > hi all -
    >
    >
    > i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    > background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    > hope to find some suggestions here.


    I've found mod_python + ZopePageTemplates (standalone) to be superb
    solution to web application development. ZPT feels like a very natural
    and maintainable way to separate business logic from presentation. Since
    I've started using these two technologies, I've found my productivity
    greatly increased.

    http://www.modpython.org
    http://zpt.sourceforge.net/

    Have fun and take care ;-)

    --
    Orlando Vazquez
    Remove the obvious from my e-mail address to reply.
     
    Orlando Vazquez, Aug 18, 2004
    #4
  5. mike

    Michael Guest

    >> i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity
    >> template background. i'm looking for a good python web development
    >> tool, and hope to find some suggestions here.

    >
    >
    > I've found mod_python + ZopePageTemplates (standalone) to be superb
    > solution to web application development. ZPT feels like a very natural
    > and maintainable way to separate business logic from presentation. Since
    > I've started using these two technologies, I've found my productivity
    > greatly increased.


    I like using mod_python and XML-RPC. Develop the logic as a backend and
    then use a frontend to talk to that backend and to do whatever
    input/output processing needs to be done to make it all into a web app.
    I like that the frontend can actually be written in other languages as
    the situation requires and that in fact it doesn't even need to be a web
    app at all. I've written MPXMLRPC backends with PHP web-based frontends
    and wxPython frontends both. Pretty sweet.

    --
    Michael <>
    http://kavlon.org
     
    Michael, Aug 18, 2004
    #5
  6. mike wrote:
    > hi all -
    >
    >
    > i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    > background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    > hope to find some suggestions here.
    >
    > given my background, webware+cheetah feels comfortingly familiar, and
    > i'm leaning toward it. before i dive in, though, i'm wondering what you
    > experienced users think about it, compared to the other tools that are
    > out there. eg, does the python environment have strengths that are
    > better exploited with something other than a servlet-like model?
    >


    Well, I'm currently writing my first app with Zope, and I find it a
    wonderful (but alas very badly documented) tool, at least compared with
    PHP. I wrote in 3 days what would have took me *at least* twice that
    time with a PHP based solution.

    I can't tell you much about other python-based solutions since I did not
    try them.
     
    Bruno Desthuilliers, Aug 18, 2004
    #6
  7. mike

    Guest

    mike <> writes:


    >
    > i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity
    > template background. i'm looking for a good python web development
    > tool, and hope to find some suggestions here.



    ZOPE

    Klaus Schilling
     
    , Aug 18, 2004
    #7
  8. mike

    Rene Pijlman Guest

    mike:
    >i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    >background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    >hope to find some suggestions here.


    Webware hasn't been mentioned yet :)

    --
    René Pijlman
     
    Rene Pijlman, Aug 18, 2004
    #8
  9. mike wrote:

    > [...]
    > i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and hope to find
    > some suggestions here.
    > [...]


    I have used Albatross (
    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross ) to be a fast and
    easy to learn, powerful, and flexible toolkit. Used on a LAPM (linux,
    apache, python, mysql) box. MVC architecture is promoted and the
    view-side tags are extremely simple, most are easy enough for a designer
    to grok in one telling and run with later on. Which says a lot, IMHO.
    Other than Albatross, I also looked at Quixote, and it seemed fairly
    swell, too. ;)

    Gabriel.
     
    Gabriel Cooper, Aug 18, 2004
    #9
  10. On 2004-08-17, mike <> wrote:
    > hi all -
    >
    >
    > i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    > background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    > hope to find some suggestions here.
    >

    I'm using SkunkWeb (skunkweb,sourceforge.net).
    realy simple framework and very very fast :)


    --
    Marcin Jurczuk, NIC-HDL: MJ1679-RIPE
     
    Marcin Jurczuk, Aug 18, 2004
    #10
  11. Am Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:43:22 -0400 schrieb mike:

    > hi all -
    >
    >
    > i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    > background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    > hope to find some suggestions here.
    >
    > given my background, webware+cheetah feels comfortingly familiar, and
    > i'm leaning toward it. before i dive in, though, i'm wondering what you
    > experienced users think about it, compared to the other tools that are
    > out there. eg, does the python environment have strengths that are
    > better exploited with something other than a servlet-like model?


    Hi,

    I use quixote (without PTL and Form library) and ZODB.

    Many don't like it, but I do:

    def foo(self, request):
    ret=[]
    ret.append(self.header())
    ret.append('<b>Hello World!</b>')
    ret.append(self.footer())
    return ''.join(ret)

    100% Python

    with the filter_output hook, every page
    is checked with html-tidy during development.

    Uncaught exceptions on the production
    site get to me by email as soon as they occur.

    A nightly unittest checks for errors.

    HTH,
    Thomas
     
    Thomas Guettler, Aug 18, 2004
    #11
  12. mike

    Jon Perez Guest

    mike wrote:

    > hi all -
    >
    >
    > i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    > background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    > hope to find some suggestions here.
    >
    > given my background, webware+cheetah feels comfortingly familiar, and
    > i'm leaning toward it. before i dive in, though, i'm wondering what you
    > experienced users think about it, compared to the other tools that are
    > out there. eg, does the python environment have strengths that are
    > better exploited with something other than a servlet-like model?


    For those coming from a PHP/ASP/JSP background, Spyce will be the
    most readily familiar and it rocks for those who use this approach.

    I've never had a use for a templating solution but Spyce
    is also supposed to support Cheetah well.
     
    Jon Perez, Aug 18, 2004
    #12
  13. Ksenia Marasanova, Aug 18, 2004
    #13
  14. > given my background, webware+cheetah feels comfortingly familiar, and
    > i'm leaning toward it. before i dive in, though, i'm wondering what you
    > experienced users think about it, compared to the other tools that are
    > out there. eg, does the python environment have strengths that are
    > better exploited with something other than a servlet-like model?


    Have a look at mod_python 3.1 - I've found performance very good. I
    benchmarked it against a commercial oversized J2EE app server and for
    non complex app found it faster. It includes session handling and a
    basic template system. However, you can use whichever templating
    language you like with it. Cheetah is nice

    Also have a look at SQL Object and db_rows
    http://www.sqlobject.org/

    SQL object is worth checking out -SQLObject is an object-relational
    mapper. It allows you to translate RDBMS table rows into Python
    objects, and manipulate those objects to transparently manipulate the
    database.
    It allows you to use something like
    >>> p = animal.new(name="Giraffe", category="mammal")

    to create a new animal instead of
    >>> db.execute(("INSERT into animals (name, category) values %s, %s),

    "Giraffe", "mammal")

    a simpler alternative - db_rows
    http://opensource.theopalgroup.com/

    (http://xminc.com/linux/db_rows.txt)

    Anthony
    http://xminc.com/linux/
     
    Anthony_Barker, Aug 18, 2004
    #14
  15. At some point, Ksenia Marasanova <> wrote:

    >> i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity
    >> template background. i'm looking for a good python web development
    >> tool, and hope to find some suggestions here.

    >
    > You may find this url interesting:
    > http://www.colorstudy.com/docs/shootout.html
    >
    > I use Quixote and for some projects also Quixote + HTMLTemplate
    > (http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/htmltemplate.html)


    I'll second Quixote and HTMLTemplate. Quixote gives a nice framework
    (handling requests, URL mapping, etc.), and HTMLTemplate does the
    separation of presentation and content.

    --
    |>|\/|<
    /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
    |David M. Cooke
    |cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca
     
    David M. Cooke, Aug 18, 2004
    #15
  16. mike

    Paul Boddie Guest

    mike <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > hi all -
    >
    >
    > i'm fairly new to python, coming from a java servlet / velocity template
    > background. i'm looking for a good python web development tool, and
    > hope to find some suggestions here.


    Well, <insert screaming advocacy here>. Alternatively, you could take
    a look at the WebProgramming section [1] of the PythonInfo Wiki [2].
    And if other respondents contributed their opinions to that resource,
    we wouldn't necessarily have the situation where people regard that
    resource as confusing whilst giving a parade of the frameworks every
    time someone asks how to do CGI with Python.

    > given my background, webware+cheetah feels comfortingly familiar, and
    > i'm leaning toward it. before i dive in, though, i'm wondering what you
    > experienced users think about it, compared to the other tools that are
    > out there. eg, does the python environment have strengths that are
    > better exploited with something other than a servlet-like model?


    I've heard that Webware plus Cheetah is a fairly equivalent
    combination to Java Servlet API plus Velocity, at least in style. I
    think it's widely accepted that if you're doing content management,
    you might be better served with something like Zope or a derivative
    such as Plone.

    If you look at the OriginalWebProgrammingClassification [3] on the
    Wiki, you'll get a better impression of what is available, in my
    opinion. That classification, combined with the
    PresentationTechnologies [4] page (now mysteriously delinked in some
    "tidying up" activity), is more concise and doesn't try and blind you
    with pseudo-science in the way that the main classification does:
    "Variable Insertion-Replacement Templating Applications
    (Pre-processors)" anyone?

    Paul

    [1] http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming
    [2] http://www.python.org/moin/FrontPage
    [3] http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/OriginalWebProgrammingClassification
    [4] http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PresentationTechnologies
     
    Paul Boddie, Aug 19, 2004
    #16
  17. Am Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:22:43 -0700 schrieb Anthony_Barker:

    >> given my background, webware+cheetah feels comfortingly familiar, and
    >> i'm leaning toward it. before i dive in, though, i'm wondering what you
    >> experienced users think about it, compared to the other tools that are
    >> out there. eg, does the python environment have strengths that are
    >> better exploited with something other than a servlet-like model?

    >
    > Have a look at mod_python 3.1 - I've found performance very good. I
    > benchmarked it against a commercial oversized J2EE app server and for
    > non complex app found it faster. It includes session handling and a
    > basic template system. However, you can use whichever templating
    > language you like with it. Cheetah is nice


    Hi Anthony,

    Did you compare it to SCGI, too?
    http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/scgi/

    Thomas
     
    Thomas Guettler, Aug 19, 2004
    #17
  18. > > Have a look at mod_python 3.1 - I've found performance very good. I
    > > benchmarked it against a commercial oversized J2EE app server and for
    > > non complex app found it faster. It includes session handling and a
    > > basic template system. However, you can use whichever templating
    > > language you like with it. Cheetah is nice

    >
    > Hi Anthony,
    >
    > Did you compare it to SCGI, too?
    > http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/scgi/
    >
    > Thomas


    No didn't test scgi. I mod_python found it slightly faster than
    mod_php and hugely faster than zope and lotus domino. Didn't test
    scgi.

    Prefer to stick to the official apache project thinking that it will
    be around longer. scgi does less than mod_python, so it may be quicker
    - you should test it out.
     
    Anthony_Barker, Aug 23, 2004
    #18
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