Fixing text size

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Michael Laplante, May 7, 2006.

  1. I've replaced a page title -- formerly a graphic to maintain text size --
    with actual text. However, I don't want this title to re-size dramatically
    should a user change the font size in their browser. A little is okay, a lot
    no.

    #Opagetitle
    {position:absolute;z-index:6;visibility:visible;text-align:left;left:210px;top:175px;width:438px;height:24px;font-family:
    sans-serif;font-size: 18px;font-style: normal;font-weight:bold;color:
    #000080;}

    The above is in my stylesheet. In FF though, changing the font size via ctrl
    key causes pagetitle to change size dramatically. In IE, there is no change
    in text size -- it seems to respect the fixed pixel size where FF won't.

    What to do?

    M
     
    Michael Laplante, May 7, 2006
    #1
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  2. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Michael Laplante"
    <> writing in
    news:gnb7g.1646$Qq.830@clgrps12:

    > I've replaced a page title -- formerly a graphic to maintain text size
    > -- with actual text. However, I don't want this title to re-size
    > dramatically should a user change the font size in their browser. A
    > little is okay, a lot no.
    >
    > #Opagetitle
    > {position:absolute;z-index:6;visibility:visible;text-align:left;left:21
    > 0px;top:175px;width:438px;height:24px;font-family:
    > sans-serif;font-size: 18px;font-style: normal;font-weight:bold;color:
    > #000080;}
    >
    > The above is in my stylesheet. In FF though, changing the font size
    > via ctrl key causes pagetitle to change size dramatically. In IE,
    > there is no change in text size -- it seems to respect the fixed pixel
    > size where FF won't.
    >
    > What to do?
    >


    Correct, IE users cannot resize fixed type font size units. Most other
    modern browsers can.

    If you use a percentage, you might be better off:

    h1 {font-size:135%}
    h2 {font-size:130%}
    h3 {font-size:125%}
    h4 {font-size:120%}
    ..legalese {font-size:85%}
    #Opagetitle
    {position:absolute;z-index:6;visibility:visible;text-align:left;left:21
    0px;top:175px;width:438px;height:24px;}
    #Opagetitle h1 {font-size:130%; font-family:
    sans-serif;font-style: normal;font-weight:bold;color:
    #000080;}

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, May 7, 2006
    #2
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  3. Michael Laplante

    dorayme Guest

    In article <gnb7g.1646$Qq.830@clgrps12>,
    "Michael Laplante" <> wrote:

    > I've replaced a page title -- formerly a graphic to maintain text size --
    > with actual text. However, I don't want this title to re-size dramatically
    > should a user change the font size in their browser. A little is okay, a lot
    > no.
    >
    > #Opagetitle
    > {position:absolute;z-index:6;visibility:visible;text-align:left;left:210px;top
    > :175px;width:438px;height:24px;font-family:
    > sans-serif;font-size: 18px;font-style: normal;font-weight:bold;color:
    > #000080;}
    >
    > The above is in my stylesheet. In FF though, changing the font size via ctrl
    > key causes pagetitle to change size dramatically. In IE, there is no change
    > in text size -- it seems to respect the fixed pixel size where FF won't.
    >
    > What to do?
    >
    > M


    If % or ems are not good enough, you might have to wait till CSS
    4 for a logarithmic size-spec to font-size.

    "Base 10 or e, with or without milk, anyone?

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 7, 2006
    #3
  4. On Sun, 07 May 2006 02:41:48 +0200, Michael Laplante
    <> wrote:

    > I've replaced a page title -- formerly a graphic to maintain text size --
    > with actual text. However, I don't want this title to re-size
    > dramatically should a user change the font size in their browser.
    > A little is okay, a lot no.
    >
    > #Opagetitle
    > {position:absolute;z-index:6;visibility:visible;text-align:left;left:210px;top:175px;width:438px;height:24px;font-family:
    > sans-serif;font-size: 18px;font-style: normal;font-weight:bold;color:
    > #000080;}
    >
    > The above is in my stylesheet. In FF though, changing the font size via
    > ctrl key causes pagetitle to change size dramatically. In IE, there is
    > no change in text size -- it seems to respect the fixed pixel size where
    > FF won't.
    >
    > What to do?


    Accept it? It may come as a surprise to you, but to many people the
    ability to control font size in their browser is a blessing. Don't try to
    set a fixed font at all.
    BTW: you might rethink your use of #Opagetitle. It looks to me like you
    really want that bit of text to be the main heading in your page. For that
    you should use h1.

    --
    ______PretLetters:
    | weblog | http://www.pretletters.net/weblog/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://www.pretletters.net/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://www.pretletters.net/html/vliegen.html |
     
    Barbara de Zoete, May 7, 2006
    #4
  5. __/ [ Barbara de Zoete ] on Sunday 07 May 2006 05:48 \__

    > On Sun, 07 May 2006 02:41:48 +0200, Michael Laplante
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> I've replaced a page title -- formerly a graphic to maintain text size --
    >> with actual text. However, I don't want this title to re-size
    >> dramatically should a user change the font size in their browser.
    >> A little is okay, a lot no.
    >>
    >> #Opagetitle
    >>

    {position:absolute;z-index:6;visibility:visible;text-align:left;left:210px;top:175px;width:438px;height:24px;font-family:
    >> sans-serif;font-size: 18px;font-style: normal;font-weight:bold;color:
    >> #000080;}
    >>
    >> The above is in my stylesheet. In FF though, changing the font size via
    >> ctrl key causes pagetitle to change size dramatically. In IE, there is
    >> no change in text size -- it seems to respect the fixed pixel size where
    >> FF won't.



    For Firefox: it's a feature, not a bug. the /USER/ is in charge.

    For IE: it's a known bug, not a feature. Zooming in IE is notorious and a
    friend of mine who is 77 moved to Firefox partly due to that factor.


    >> What to do?

    >
    > Accept it? It may come as a surprise to you, but to many people the
    > ability to control font size in their browser is a blessing. Don't try to
    > set a fixed font at all.
    > BTW: you might rethink your use of #Opagetitle. It looks to me like you
    > really want that bit of text to be the main heading in your page. For that
    > you should use h1.



    Taking zooming into account when designing Web page is a bad idea. What I
    mean to say is this: assume nothing about font size, but *do* ensure that
    increase in font size does not obstruct, e.g. text 'leaking' outside the
    screen. Forget about aesthetics, which should not lead to accessibility
    being compromised. Assume normal (unzoomed) fonts, which would probably
    cover over 90% of the visitors (depending how big/miniscule your fonts
    are, by default).

    Best wishes,

    Roy

    --
    Roy S. Schestowitz | Community is code, code is community
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux ¦ PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    8:25am up 9 days 15:22, 12 users, load average: 0.50, 0.87, 0.69
    http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms
     
    Roy Schestowitz, May 7, 2006
    #5
  6. Michael Laplante

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, Roy Schestowitz
    <> vouchsafed:

    > For Firefox: it's a feature, not a bug. the /USER/ is in charge.
    >
    > For IE: it's a known bug, not a feature. Zooming in IE is notorious
    > and a friend of mine who is 77 moved to Firefox partly due to that
    > factor.


    When did you start hanging out with the younger crowd?

    > Best wishes,
    >
    > Roy
    >




    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 7, 2006
    #6
  7. Michael Laplante

    Nije Nego Guest

    On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:41:48 GMT, Michael Laplante wrote:

    > #Opagetitle
    > {position:absolute;z-index:6;visibility:visible;text-align:left;left:210px;top:175px;width:438px;height:24px;font-family:
    > sans-serif;font-size: 18px;font-style: normal;font-weight:bold;color:
    > #000080;}


    Some of the definitions here are noot needed, since they are set by
    default, you can easily remove them:

    visibility: visible;
    text-align: left;
    font-style: normal;

    Font size should be empty, 100% or 1em.

    Since this is a page title you should put all the text in between
    <h1>text goes here</h1>
    and define h1 in your css.

    A standard h1 would render at 200% default font size (as defined in body or
    otherwhere).
    http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/relative/

    --
    buy, bought, bye
     
    Nije Nego, May 7, 2006
    #7
  8. Michael Laplante

    Nije Nego Guest

    On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:41:48 GMT, Michael Laplante wrote:

    > I don't want this title to re-size dramatically
    > should a user change the font size in their browser. A little is okay, a lot
    > no.


    Having default font-size empty (or at 100% or 1em), 99% of users will not
    have to resize and adjust the font size - only if they are in control you
    could be in control.

    --
    buy, bought, bye
     
    Nije Nego, May 7, 2006
    #8
  9. __/ [ Neredbojias <http://www.neredbojias.com/fliam.php?cat=alt.html> ] on
    Sunday 07 May 2006 10:19 \__

    > To further the education of mankind, Roy Schestowitz
    > <> vouchsafed:
    >
    >> For Firefox: it's a feature, not a bug. the /USER/ is in charge.
    >>
    >> For IE: it's a known bug, not a feature. Zooming in IE is notorious
    >> and a friend of mine who is 77 moved to Firefox partly due to that
    >> factor.

    >
    > When did you start hanging out with the younger crowd?


    It's like life in reverse... I can't find that George Costanza cartoon which
    illustrates this... it used to circulate around the Net quite heavily...
     
    Roy Schestowitz, May 7, 2006
    #9
  10. Michael Laplante

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, Roy Schestowitz
    <> vouchsafed:

    >>> For IE: it's a known bug, not a feature. Zooming in IE is notorious
    >>> and a friend of mine who is 77 moved to Firefox partly due to that
    >>> factor.

    >>
    >> When did you start hanging out with the younger crowd?

    >
    > It's like life in reverse... I can't find that George Costanza cartoon
    > which illustrates this... it used to circulate around the Net quite
    > heavily...


    At age 4 success is not peeing in your pants.
    At age 12 success is having friends.
    At age 16 success is having a drivers license.
    At age 20 success is having sex.
    At age 35 success is having money.
    At age 50 success is having money.
    At age 60 success is having sex.
    At age 70 success is having a drivers license.
    At age 75 success is having friends.
    At age 80 success is not peeing in your pants.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 7, 2006
    #10
  11. __/ [ Neredbojias ] on Sunday 07 May 2006 11:08 \__

    > To further the education of mankind, Roy Schestowitz
    > <> vouchsafed:
    >
    >>>> For IE: it's a known bug, not a feature. Zooming in IE is notorious
    >>>> and a friend of mine who is 77 moved to Firefox partly due to that
    >>>> factor.
    >>>
    >>> When did you start hanging out with the younger crowd?

    >>
    >> It's like life in reverse... I can't find that George Costanza cartoon
    >> which illustrates this... it used to circulate around the Net quite
    >> heavily...

    >
    > At age 4 success is not peeing in your pants.
    > At age 12 success is having friends.
    > At age 16 success is having a drivers license.
    > At age 20 success is having sex.
    > At age 35 success is having money.
    > At age 50 success is having money.
    > At age 60 success is having sex.
    > At age 70 success is having a drivers license.
    > At age 75 success is having friends.
    > At age 80 success is not peeing in your pants.


    Seen this before. *smile*

    The one I thought about was a JPEG called "Life in Reverse. George explains
    that a better life would have begun when we are frail and end up in a cozy
    womb. It is pretty funny. Another one is this:

    What changes occur in females at each 10 year interval in their lives,
    beginning at age 8?

    At 8? Before she falls asleep in her bed, you tell her a story.

    At 18? You tell her a story and take her to bed.

    At 28 ? You don't need to tell her a story to take her to bed.

    At 38 - She tells you a story and takes you to bed.

    At 48 ? She tells you a story to avoid going to bed.

    At 58 ? You stay in bed to avoid her story.

    At 68? If you take her to bed, that'll be a story!

    At 78 ? What story??? What bed??? Who the hell are you???

    Best wishes,

    Roy

    --
    Roy S. Schestowitz
    http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux ¦ PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    11:20am up 9 days 18:17, 12 users, load average: 0.78, 0.58, 0.35
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project
     
    Roy Schestowitz, May 7, 2006
    #11
  12. Michael Laplante

    JDS Guest

    On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:41:48 +0000, Michael Laplante wrote:

    > I've replaced a page title -- formerly a graphic to maintain text size --
    > with actual text. However, I don't want this title to re-size dramatically
    > should a user change the font size in their browser. A little is okay, a lot
    > no.


    Then go back to the graphic

    --
    JDS |
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
     
    JDS, May 7, 2006
    #12
  13. Michael Laplante

    Greg N. Guest

    Michael Laplante wrote:
    > I've replaced a page title -- formerly a graphic to maintain text size --
    > with actual text. However, I don't want this title to re-size dramatically
    > should a user change the font size in their browser


    I suggest you don't worry.

    My vision is not what it used to be, and I use Firefox' text resize
    function a lot. I accept very much that every other web site's layout
    gets a bit out of whack when I do this, but I will not hold it against
    the web site author.

    When font sizes increase, a few extra line breaks and scroll bars is
    nothing for you to get anal about. All you need to do is make sure all
    parts of your site stay visible and readable.

    Take pleasure in my happiness to be able to read your stuff.

    --
    Gregor mit dem Motorrad auf Reisen:
    http://hothaus.de/greg-tour/
     
    Greg N., May 7, 2006
    #13
  14. Michael Laplante

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, Roy Schestowitz
    <> vouchsafed:

    > Seen this before. *smile*
    >
    > The one I thought about was a JPEG called "Life in Reverse. George
    > explains that a better life would have begun when we are frail and end
    > up in a cozy womb. It is pretty funny. Another one is this:


    Doesn't ring any bells with me but sounds like it could be a riot.

    > What changes occur in females at each 10 year interval in their lives,
    > beginning at age 8?
    >
    > At 8? Before she falls asleep in her bed, you tell her a story.
    >
    > At 18? You tell her a story and take her to bed.
    >
    > At 28 ? You don't need to tell her a story to take her to bed.
    >
    > At 38 - She tells you a story and takes you to bed.
    >
    > At 48 ? She tells you a story to avoid going to bed.
    >
    > At 58 ? You stay in bed to avoid her story.
    >
    > At 68? If you take her to bed, that'll be a story!
    >
    > At 78 ? What story??? What bed??? Who the hell are you???
    >
    > Best wishes,
    >
    > Roy


    <g> And it's true, too. You wouldn't believe how many girls thought I was
    a g-man when I was, uh, younger.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 7, 2006
    #14
  15. Michael Laplante

    Andy Dingley Guest

    Michael Laplante wrote:
    > I've replaced a page title -- formerly a graphic to maintain text size --
    > with actual text. However, I don't want this title to re-size dramatically
    > should a user change the font size in their browser.


    Set the size in pixels and set the text sizes for the rest of the page
    in ems or %. Make sure that body text remains at 1em and that "small
    print" doesn't go smaller than 0.67em.

    By this means, users should get good readability at their default text
    sizes and don't need to go around re-sizing things. IE users will also
    keep the pixel sizes constant (as they ought to), FF users will still
    see variation in the pixel sized text. This isn't perfect, but it's the
    best I know how to achieve.

    I do use pixel sizes where I need to constrain text to fit into a
    graphical design feature (such as breadcrumbs into a fixed height
    stripe) but I don't do it for "page titles" - they get em sizes, same
    as the other "content". As to usability, then I'm prepared to have the
    breadcrumbs become unusable for size-sensitive graphical readers,
    rather than break the page layout for everyone. They still work fine in
    text mode or with a browser that specifically recognises nav menus.

    You _might_ also use an IE conditional comment to reduce the body text
    size below 100%. This is needed because IE screws up default handling
    on large screen resolutions / not-so-large physical screens where users
    have used the Windows display properties of "Large fonts" to keep
    things readable. This is an IE 6 (and earlier) bug.
     
    Andy Dingley, May 8, 2006
    #15
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