Flash, ActiveX, Shockwave Etc...

Discussion in 'HTML' started by galt_57@hotmail.com, Dec 26, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    disabled.
    , Dec 26, 2006
    #1
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  2. cwdjrxyz Guest

    wrote:
    > Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    > disabled.


    I depends on what kind of site you have. For instance, flash clips(or
    wmv, rm, etc) of movies are very necessary if you are trying to sell
    videos on a site such as Netflix. They also are handy to demonstrate
    how many other products look and work. If properly designed, they just
    will not show if not supported or turned off, so someone can buy the
    widget from the description only. Then for many private web sites they
    may be quite useful, depending on your interest. At least in the US,
    well over half of net users are connected with broadband. Thus most
    will be able to turn on well designed media displays without undue
    delay. It is nice to use a button to allow the media to be turned on
    rather than autostarting, which can annoy many. Many flash displays are
    set to autostart, but this need not be the case.
    cwdjrxyz, Dec 26, 2006
    #2
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  3. wrote:
    > Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    > disabled.


    If you don' t like it, then turn it off. Pretty simple eh? The sites
    that use it won't miss you
    Travis Newbury, Dec 26, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    > > disabled.

    >
    > If you don' t like it, then turn it off. Pretty simple eh? The sites
    > that use it won't miss you


    That's good, because they won't get my business.
    , Dec 26, 2006
    #4
  5. Guest

    cwdjrxyz wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    > > disabled.

    >
    > I depends on what kind of site you have. For instance, flash clips(or
    > wmv, rm, etc) of movies are very necessary if you are trying to sell
    > videos on a site such as Netflix. They also are handy to demonstrate
    > how many other products look and work. If properly designed, they just
    > will not show if not supported or turned off, so someone can buy the
    > widget from the description only. Then for many private web sites they
    > may be quite useful, depending on your interest. At least in the US,
    > well over half of net users are connected with broadband. Thus most
    > will be able to turn on well designed media displays without undue
    > delay. It is nice to use a button to allow the media to be turned on
    > rather than autostarting, which can annoy many. Many flash displays are
    > set to autostart, but this need not be the case.


    Ok, but why not something much simpler such as animated Gif's and
    Mpeg's?
    , Dec 26, 2006
    #5
  6. Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, "" <galt_57
    @hotmail.com> vouchsafed:

    > Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    > disabled.


    Ditto. 'Tis best had it not been installed in the first place. It's sort
    of like converting a girlfriend into a wife...

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
    Neredbojias, Dec 26, 2006
    #6
  7. wrote:
    > > If you don' t like it, then turn it off. Pretty simple eh? The sites
    > > that use it won't miss you

    > That's good, because they won't get my business.


    And they are weeping right about now I am sure...
    Travis Newbury, Dec 27, 2006
    #7
  8. wrote:
    > > > Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    > > > disabled.

    > > I depends on what kind of site you have...

    > Ok, but why not something much simpler such as animated Gif's and
    > Mpeg's?


    Only someone ignorant of Flash would ask that.
    Travis Newbury, Dec 27, 2006
    #8
  9. cwdjrxyz wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    > > disabled.

    > I depends on what kind of site you have. For instance, flash clips(or
    > wmv, rm, etc) of movies are very necessary if you are trying to sell
    > videos on a site such as Netflix. They also are handy to demonstrate
    > how many other products look and work. If properly designed, they just
    > will not show if not supported or turned off, so someone can buy the
    > widget from the description only. Then for many private web sites they
    > may be quite useful, depending on your interest. At least in the US,
    > well over half of net users are connected with broadband. Thus most
    > will be able to turn on well designed media displays without undue
    > delay. It is nice to use a button to allow the media to be turned on
    > rather than autostarting, which can annoy many. Many flash displays are
    > set to autostart, but this need not be the case.


    One other point. A lot of people ENJOY Flash and WANT it. Everyone
    seems to forget that.
    Travis Newbury, Dec 27, 2006
    #9
  10. Andy Dingley Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:

    > > Ok, but why not something much simpler such as animated Gif's and
    > > Mpeg's?

    >
    > Only someone ignorant of Flash would ask that.


    Merry Christmas Travis, I'm going to agree with you here!

    (My new year's resolution will of course be to never have that happen
    again)
    Andy Dingley, Dec 27, 2006
    #10
  11. Andy Dingley Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:

    > > That's good, because they won't get my business.

    >
    > And they are weeping right about now I am sure...


    The investors of boo.com are still weeping and a lot of that site's
    problems were simply because of the use of Flash (arguably premature).
    Andy Dingley, Dec 27, 2006
    #11
  12. Andy Dingley wrote:
    > > > That's good, because they won't get my business.

    > > And they are weeping right about now I am sure...

    > The investors of boo.com are still weeping and a lot of that site's
    > problems were simply because of the use of Flash (arguably premature).


    6 years ago when this took place Flash was a toy for making cartoons.
    Useful Actionscript and dynamic loading of content, which is essencial
    for low bandwidth connections, was not implemented. Not to mention it
    sounds like the management team had no clue about the dynamics of their
    audience.

    And of course, an e-commerce site is (probably) not a good choice for a
    Flash site. Though there are exceptions. I made an awesome tool for a
    local mom and pop on-line t-shirt store that let people design, view,
    and order custom t-shirts. You could upload graphics, drag the
    graphics and create text in various fonts on both the front and back of
    t-shirts, sweat-shirts, and pullovers, then preview it. Both the users
    and the store loved it, and there was a substantial increase in revenue
    because people were in complete control of their design and pay via CC.
    If you didn't use flash, you had to do it the old fashion way over the
    phone or in person. Nothing better than spontaneous purchases...
    Travis Newbury, Dec 27, 2006
    #12
  13. Andy Dingley Guest

    wrote:

    > Is this stuff justified?


    What stuff?

    Flash is excellent for any site that needs (NB - needs) to have
    animated graphics beyond that easily obtained by trivial CSS or
    JavaScript. This doesn't include trivial page logos, and especially not
    crucial nav menu buttons. However there's still plenty where Flash is
    appropriate and useful.

    ActiveX is also useful, for a bare handful of "well-known" controls.
    But after you've installed them on your new desktop from the half-dozen
    trustworthy sites that offer them, then lock the machine down hard and
    never install another.

    The difference between Flash and ActiveX is in the separation of risk
    and content. Flash is a high-risk component from one site (hopefully
    and which can be trustworthy) that allows you safe promiscuous access
    to Flash content from many untrustworthy sites. You _install_ it
    carefully, then you're safe to go anywhere.

    ActiveX is sometimes like this (good, as described above) but
    potentially different and hazardous. With random ActiveX components
    from different sites it's a promiscuous install, and that's where the
    danger lies. Certainly don't allow them to be installed from anywhere.

    ActiveX also has some other problems. It's from M$oft, who don't have a
    credible track-record for security. It's also harder to prove that an
    ActiveX from a trusted source is still safe when deliberately
    mis-handled by a rogue site (M$oft shipped a real doozy for this back
    in '97, in the very first release of ActiveX). Also the "signed" aspect
    of ActiveX is laughably insecure.
    Andy Dingley, Dec 27, 2006
    #13
  14. Travis Newbury wrote:
    > wrote:
    >> Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    >> disabled.

    >
    > If you don' t like it, then turn it off. Pretty simple eh? The sites
    > that use it won't miss you
    >

    I guess all those stories about the lengths to which people go to
    attract users to their sites are apocryphal, if they really don't care
    when users decide to avoid them.
    Harlan Messinger, Dec 27, 2006
    #14
  15. Travis Newbury wrote:
    > cwdjrxyz wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>> Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    >>> disabled.

    >> I depends on what kind of site you have. For instance, flash clips(or
    >> wmv, rm, etc) of movies are very necessary if you are trying to sell
    >> videos on a site such as Netflix. They also are handy to demonstrate
    >> how many other products look and work. If properly designed, they just
    >> will not show if not supported or turned off, so someone can buy the
    >> widget from the description only. Then for many private web sites they
    >> may be quite useful, depending on your interest. At least in the US,
    >> well over half of net users are connected with broadband. Thus most
    >> will be able to turn on well designed media displays without undue
    >> delay. It is nice to use a button to allow the media to be turned on
    >> rather than autostarting, which can annoy many. Many flash displays are
    >> set to autostart, but this need not be the case.

    >
    > One other point. A lot of people ENJOY Flash and WANT it. Everyone
    > seems to forget that.


    That makes sense for lifestyle websites, where users are the kind of
    people who are there to hang out or have an "experience". For sites
    where people go to buy toasters or books or get product reviews or
    answers to questions orr otherwise just accomplish something and get ou,
    animation and custom interfaces are mostly a distraction and a
    hindrance, whereas no one who goes to such a site that doesn't have such
    visual candy feels that their experience has been terribly diminished by
    its absence.
    Harlan Messinger, Dec 27, 2006
    #15
  16. Harlan Messinger wrote:
    > >> Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    > >> disabled.

    > > If you don' t like it, then turn it off. Pretty simple eh? The sites
    > > that use it won't miss you

    > I guess all those stories about the lengths to which people go to
    > attract users to their sites are apocryphal, if they really don't care
    > when users decide to avoid them.


    So there is no possibility that a site may use Flash to attract people
    to their site?
    Travis Newbury, Dec 27, 2006
    #16
  17. dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Harlan Messinger <> wrote:

    > Travis Newbury wrote:
    > > wrote:
    > >> Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
    > >> disabled.

    > >
    > > If you don' t like it, then turn it off. Pretty simple eh? The sites
    > > that use it won't miss you
    > >

    > I guess all those stories about the lengths to which people go to
    > attract users to their sites are apocryphal, if they really don't care
    > when users decide to avoid them.


    This is an example of a common mistake in argument. Aristotle had
    a name for it, it is listed at the end of such as "Argumentum ad
    Hominem" and others. It is called "Argumentum ad Exaggeratem" and
    indicates the caricaturing of a position. In other words, Travis
    had some stats behind his idea, you abstract from them.

    I have been defending Travis from well before Xmas, fat lot he
    appreciates it of course, but I explained my reasons (to keep him
    as sport for myself, not to have him destroyed too early). AD's
    motives are less evil, mere Xmas cheer!

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Dec 27, 2006
    #17
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