Flash, ActiveX, Shockwave Etc...

[galt_57]

Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
disabled.

 

[cwdjrxyz]

Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
disabled.

I depends on what kind of site you have. For instance, flash clips(or
wmv, rm, etc) of movies are very necessary if you are trying to sell
videos on a site such as Netflix. They also are handy to demonstrate
how many other products look and work. If properly designed, they just
will not show if not supported or turned off, so someone can buy the
widget from the description only. Then for many private web sites they
may be quite useful, depending on your interest. At least in the US,
well over half of net users are connected with broadband. Thus most
will be able to turn on well designed media displays without undue
delay. It is nice to use a button to allow the media to be turned on
rather than autostarting, which can annoy many. Many flash displays are
set to autostart, but this need not be the case.

 

[Travis Newbury]

Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
disabled.

If you don' t like it, then turn it off. Pretty simple eh? The sites
that use it won't miss you

 

[galt_57]

If you don' t like it, then turn it off. Pretty simple eh? The sites
that use it won't miss you

That's good, because they won't get my business.

 

[galt_57]

I depends on what kind of site you have. For instance, flash clips(or
wmv, rm, etc) of movies are very necessary if you are trying to sell
videos on a site such as Netflix. They also are handy to demonstrate
how many other products look and work. If properly designed, they just
will not show if not supported or turned off, so someone can buy the
widget from the description only. Then for many private web sites they
may be quite useful, depending on your interest. At least in the US,
well over half of net users are connected with broadband. Thus most
will be able to turn on well designed media displays without undue
delay. It is nice to use a button to allow the media to be turned on
rather than autostarting, which can annoy many. Many flash displays are
set to autostart, but this need not be the case.

Ok, but why not something much simpler such as animated Gif's and
Mpeg's?

 

[Neredbojias]

To further the education of mankind, "(e-mail address removed)" <galt_57
@hotmail.com> vouchsafed:

Is this stuff justified? I usually find it annoying and keep it
disabled.

Ditto. 'Tis best had it not been installed in the first place. It's sort
of like converting a girlfriend into a wife...

 

[Travis Newbury]

That's good, because they won't get my business.

And they are weeping right about now I am sure...

 

[Travis Newbury]

Ok, but why not something much simpler such as animated Gif's and
Mpeg's?

Only someone ignorant of Flash would ask that.

 

[Travis Newbury]

I depends on what kind of site you have. For instance, flash clips(or
wmv, rm, etc) of movies are very necessary if you are trying to sell
videos on a site such as Netflix. They also are handy to demonstrate
how many other products look and work. If properly designed, they just
will not show if not supported or turned off, so someone can buy the
widget from the description only. Then for many private web sites they
may be quite useful, depending on your interest. At least in the US,
well over half of net users are connected with broadband. Thus most
will be able to turn on well designed media displays without undue
delay. It is nice to use a button to allow the media to be turned on
rather than autostarting, which can annoy many. Many flash displays are
set to autostart, but this need not be the case.

One other point. A lot of people ENJOY Flash and WANT it. Everyone
seems to forget that.

 

[Andy Dingley]

Only someone ignorant of Flash would ask that.

Merry Christmas Travis, I'm going to agree with you here!

(My new year's resolution will of course be to never have that happen
again)

 

[Andy Dingley]

And they are weeping right about now I am sure...

The investors of boo.com are still weeping and a lot of that site's
problems were simply because of the use of Flash (arguably premature).

 

[Travis Newbury]

The investors of boo.com are still weeping and a lot of that site's
problems were simply because of the use of Flash (arguably premature).

6 years ago when this took place Flash was a toy for making cartoons.
Useful Actionscript and dynamic loading of content, which is essencial
for low bandwidth connections, was not implemented. Not to mention it
sounds like the management team had no clue about the dynamics of their
audience.

And of course, an e-commerce site is (probably) not a good choice for a
Flash site. Though there are exceptions. I made an awesome tool for a
local mom and pop on-line t-shirt store that let people design, view,
and order custom t-shirts. You could upload graphics, drag the
graphics and create text in various fonts on both the front and back of
t-shirts, sweat-shirts, and pullovers, then preview it. Both the users
and the store loved it, and there was a substantial increase in revenue
because people were in complete control of their design and pay via CC.
If you didn't use flash, you had to do it the old fashion way over the
phone or in person. Nothing better than spontaneous purchases...

 

[Andy Dingley]

Is this stuff justified?

What stuff?

Flash is excellent for any site that needs (NB - needs) to have
animated graphics beyond that easily obtained by trivial CSS or
JavaScript. This doesn't include trivial page logos, and especially not
crucial nav menu buttons. However there's still plenty where Flash is
appropriate and useful.

ActiveX is also useful, for a bare handful of "well-known" controls.
But after you've installed them on your new desktop from the half-dozen
trustworthy sites that offer them, then lock the machine down hard and
never install another.

The difference between Flash and ActiveX is in the separation of risk
and content. Flash is a high-risk component from one site (hopefully
and which can be trustworthy) that allows you safe promiscuous access
to Flash content from many untrustworthy sites. You _install_ it
carefully, then you're safe to go anywhere.

ActiveX is sometimes like this (good, as described above) but
potentially different and hazardous. With random ActiveX components
from different sites it's a promiscuous install, and that's where the
danger lies. Certainly don't allow them to be installed from anywhere.

ActiveX also has some other problems. It's from M$oft, who don't have a
credible track-record for security. It's also harder to prove that an
ActiveX from a trusted source is still safe when deliberately
mis-handled by a rogue site (M$oft shipped a real doozy for this back
in '97, in the very first release of ActiveX). Also the "signed" aspect
of ActiveX is laughably insecure.

 

[Harlan Messinger]

If you don' t like it, then turn it off. Pretty simple eh? The sites
that use it won't miss you

I guess all those stories about the lengths to which people go to
attract users to their sites are apocryphal, if they really don't care
when users decide to avoid them.

 

[Harlan Messinger]

One other point. A lot of people ENJOY Flash and WANT it. Everyone
seems to forget that.

That makes sense for lifestyle websites, where users are the kind of
people who are there to hang out or have an "experience". For sites
where people go to buy toasters or books or get product reviews or
answers to questions orr otherwise just accomplish something and get ou,
animation and custom interfaces are mostly a distraction and a
hindrance, whereas no one who goes to such a site that doesn't have such
visual candy feels that their experience has been terribly diminished by
its absence.

 

[Travis Newbury]

I guess all those stories about the lengths to which people go to
attract users to their sites are apocryphal, if they really don't care
when users decide to avoid them.

So there is no possibility that a site may use Flash to attract people
to their site?

 

[dorayme]

I guess all those stories about the lengths to which people go to
attract users to their sites are apocryphal, if they really don't care
when users decide to avoid them.

This is an example of a common mistake in argument. Aristotle had
a name for it, it is listed at the end of such as "Argumentum ad
Hominem" and others. It is called "Argumentum ad Exaggeratem" and
indicates the caricaturing of a position. In other words, Travis
had some stats behind his idea, you abstract from them.

I have been defending Travis from well before Xmas, fat lot he
appreciates it of course, but I explained my reasons (to keep him
as sport for myself, not to have him destroyed too early). AD's
motives are less evil, mere Xmas cheer!