Form elements not same size (text / textarea)

E

Elliot Lewis

I have created a simple form with these elements: input type text and
textarea.

The text areas have scrollbars. By visually looking at the form in I.E. 6 I
have set their size and cols values to 18, and they are both the same width
hand look good.

In my browser they line up, but look different in I.E. 5 and 5-5 and more
annoyingly different on the clients machine under I.E. 6.

Is there a way to keep these form elements the same width?

Elliot.
 
B

blib

In my browser they line up, but look different in I.E. 5 and 5-5 and more
annoyingly different on the clients machine under I.E. 6.

Is there a way to keep these form elements the same width?

Elliot.
I remember having to do this for a fussy client a few years back who wanted
his form to look the same in both IE4+ and NN 4.x . I used a bit of
unreliable JS to find out the User Agent and then created the form elements
on the fly with JS varying the size attribute.

Thomas
 
E

Elliot Lewis

I was hoping it wouldn't come to that. My main concern is the same form
having different width in I.E. 6 on different machines.
Surely the same browser should look the same on all versions of windows?
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Elliot Lewis pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:

[top posting corrected]
I was hoping it wouldn't come to that. My main concern is the same form
having different width in I.E. 6 on different machines.
Surely the same browser should look the same on all versions of windows?

Surely all your visitors cannot have the exact same window sizes, default
font sizes, screen resolution, maximized or otherwise browser.

You can't make them all look alike. You can't even make them look alike
for the *same* version of a browser.

What will you do when they start installing Mozilla or Opera? ..which
they will do as soon as the "Microsoft has stopped developing IE" gets
around more.
 
E

Elliot Lewis

Don't be an idiot.
I do expect a table with width 100 to be the same relational size across all
versions of the same browser.
Therefore I expect a text field of 18 to be the same width as a textarea of
18.
Obviously you don't care about professional looking work.



Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:
Elliot Lewis pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:

[top posting corrected]
I was hoping it wouldn't come to that. My main concern is the same form
having different width in I.E. 6 on different machines.
Surely the same browser should look the same on all versions of windows?

Surely all your visitors cannot have the exact same window sizes, default
font sizes, screen resolution, maximized or otherwise browser.

You can't make them all look alike. You can't even make them look alike
for the *same* version of a browser.

What will you do when they start installing Mozilla or Opera? ..which
they will do as soon as the "Microsoft has stopped developing IE" gets
around more.
 
W

William Tasso

Elliot Lewis wrote:
[please don't top post]
Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:
Elliot Lewis pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:

[top posting corrected]
In my browser they line up, but look different in I.E. 5 and 5-5
and more annoyingly different on the clients machine under I.E. 6.

Is there a way to keep these form elements the same width?

Elliot.

I remember having to do this for a fussy client a few years back
who wanted his form to look the same in both IE4+ and NN 4.x . I
used a bit of unreliable JS to find out the User Agent and then
created the form elements on the fly with JS varying the size
attribute.

Thomas
I was hoping it wouldn't come to that. My main concern is the same
form having different width in I.E. 6 on different machines.
Surely the same browser should look the same on all versions of
windows?

Surely all your visitors cannot have the exact same window sizes,
default font sizes, screen resolution, maximized or otherwise
browser.

You can't make them all look alike. You can't even make them look
alike for the *same* version of a browser.

What will you do when they start installing Mozilla or Opera?
..which they will do as soon as the "Microsoft has stopped
developing IE" gets around more.
Don't be an idiot.

may not be the most efficient motivational method to get the best out of
people
I do expect a table with width 100 to be the same relational size
across all versions of the same browser.

100 what?
Therefore I expect a text field of 18 to be the same width as a
textarea of 18.

18 what?
Obviously you don't care about professional looking work.

hmm - you really are trying hard to alienate the helpful and knowledgeable.
good luck.
 
R

rf

Elliot Lewis said:
Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:
Elliot Lewis pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:

[top posting corrected]
In my browser they line up, but look different in I.E. 5 and 5-5
and
Surely all your visitors cannot have the exact same window sizes, default
font sizes, screen resolution, maximized or otherwise browser.

[top posting corrected AGAIN]

Don't be an idiot.

The very first thing one must do to open a straw man argument
( http://www.google.com.au/search?q="straw+man+argument" )
is to call ones opponent to order and to suggest that they may be of less
than acceptable intelligence. This is mandatory. It sets the tone for the
argument and casts the first seed of doubt into the mind of the casual
observer.
I do expect a table with width 100 to be the same relational size across all
versions of the same browser.

One then provides some irrelevant information or opinion which everybody
must agree with, since it is usually quite true and accurate. This part of
ones argument builds on the seed of doubt instilled earlier on and lulls the
casual observer into a sense of security, leading said observer to believe
that one actually does have something useful and meaningful to say.
Therefore I expect a text field of 18 to be the same width as a textarea of
18.

After this one presents the meat of the straw man argument. One rides on the
sense of security and camaraderie one has established with the casual
observer and one sneakily flows into the argument the assertion that what
one "wants", *must* be so. It is crucial that one makes this part of the
argument unambiguous and not open to any sort of questioning or evaluation b
y the casual observer. It MUST be so. I EXPECT this to happen. This IS the
way it is.
Obviously you don't care about professional looking work.

One closes out ones argument with a parting shot at ones opponent, perhaps
questioning their professional qualifications to have any sort of opinion at
all on the matter to hand. Ones opponents reputation and even intelligence
is now under serious evaluation and any argument ones opponent may have made
is in tatters and must be seriously suspect.

</rant>


The subject of specifying the width of input elements in a consistent manner
across different browsers is raised in this newsgroup and in most of the
others at least once a month.

The general consensus is that no matter what is suggested it will never,
ever, look the same on all browsers. Some of them are wildly different.

This consensus is largely made by people who have been intimately involved
with HTML and the web in general for many years, many of them since its
inception.

Further consensus is that it does not matter. If a particular browser
renders the elements at a different width then it will have done so for all
pages the user of that browser has ever viewed. That user will be used to
seeing them like that.

The generally accepted rule is that there is no future in trying to make the
input elements pixel perfect in all browsers and that such time spent trying
to do so would be far better expended on refining the content of the page.

Cheers
Richard.
 
S

Steve Pugh

Elliot Lewis said:
Don't be an idiot.

Who is top posting and using insults?
I do expect a table with width 100 to be the same relational size across all
versions of the same browser.

Irregardless of the content of the table and the user's default font
size?

<table width="100"><tr><td>Hello!</td></tr></table>
Try that with a font size that means that the word Hello! can not fit
within 100 pixels.

The specs are quite clear that table widths are suggestions only and
that the browser should ignore them if the content demands that they
do so.
Therefore I expect a text field of 18 to be the same width as a textarea of
18.

<input size="18">
The 18 is the number of average width characters. The average width of
a character varies with the font used, and the size of the font. As
the different users may have very different font sizes set in their
configurations there is no way you can expect the same input to be the
same width in all browsers, even if they have the same name and
version number.

And you've probably already noticed that
<input size="18"> and <textarea cols="18"> don't give the same width
in many browsers anyway.

Your expectations are quite unrealistic.
Obviously you don't care about professional looking work.

Yeah whatever. Looking professional and being professional are
different beasts. Guess what calling people idiots says about
someone's professionalism.

Steve
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Elliot Lewis pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:
Don't be an idiot.
I do expect a table with width 100 to be the same relational size across all
versions of the same browser.
Therefore I expect a text field of 18 to be the same width as a textarea of
18.
Obviously you don't care about professional looking work.

<snip the rest as it obviously was not understood>

I've gotten back to the group and find that I am an idiot.

Thank you very much. Thanks to the other posters who already have said
everything I would want to say. My websites are very professional looking,
and all validate xhtml 1.0 strict with valid css as well.

Why not go curl up with a good book? Perhaps even one about usenet
guidelines?
 
E

Elliot Lewis

I've gotten back to the group and find that I am an idiot.

Thank you very much. Thanks to the other posters who already have said
everything I would want to say. My websites are very professional looking,
and all validate xhtml 1.0 strict with valid css as well.

Why not go curl up with a good book? Perhaps even one about usenet
guidelines?

That's the kind of comment that made me reply and call you an idiot. Your
reply had more intention of showing how clever you are about the web rather
than being helpful. I was after advice from other web developers that could
help me with a question I posted, not a lesson on how you cannot guarantee
that all people will have the same browser (which of course I am aware of).
Actually in this case I can guarantee they will, as the site is for an
intranet and the standard is I.E. 6. It would have been more helpful to have
answered the question or not posted a reply at all.

As per my original post a text element set to 18 : <input name="newCostUnit"
type="text" id="newCostUnit" value="0" size="18">
and a text area underneath :<textarea name="newInfo" cols="18">, are the
same width on some machines under I.E.6 and different with others (in the
same browser version).

It seems from the other 'helpful' replies my 'expectations are quite
unrealistic'? But why? Isn't that the whole point of designing a layout?
Items set to the same char length with the same font should align.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Elliot Lewis pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:
That's the kind of comment that made me reply and call you an idiot. Your
reply had more intention of showing how clever you are about the web rather
than being helpful.

I am no more clever than all the others who replied.
I was after advice from other web developers that could
help me with a question I posted, not a lesson on how you cannot guarantee
that all people will have the same browser (which of course I am aware of).

It wasn't evident that you were aware.
Actually in this case I can guarantee they will, as the site is for an
intranet and the standard is I.E. 6.

An intranet? That does make a difference. You should have stated that.

Even on an intranet, all using IE6, you will have users with varying
default browser font sizes. Does the entire company consist of employees
with perfect eyesight? Is every monitor set to 800x600 with 96dpi?
It would have been more helpful to have
answered the question or not posted a reply at all.

I did provide an answer to your question. I suppose it wasn't the one you
wanted.

....
 
S

Steve Pugh

Elliot Lewis said:
As per my original post a text element set to 18 : <input name="newCostUnit"
type="text" id="newCostUnit" value="0" size="18">
and a text area underneath :<textarea name="newInfo" cols="18">, are the
same width on some machines under I.E.6 and different with others (in the
same browser version).

Running on the same OS? IE is part of the Windows operating system and
items such as form elements are inherited from the OS. So different
versions of Windows can give different effects. Or even the same
version of Windows with different settings.

And then there are the user settings within the browser itself.
It seems from the other 'helpful' replies my 'expectations are quite
unrealistic'? But why?

HTML is about marking up content. Once the content is marked up
browsers will display it in a number of ways. You can't expect
different elements with different attributes to display identically
just because you've given them the same value? The fact that one
element uses size and the other uses cols may have been a clue that
they are different.
Isn't that the whole point of designing a layout?

'designing a layout' sounds like a job for CSS to me, not HTML.
Items set to the same char length with the same font should align.

Is it the same font? By default my IE6 uses a proportional font for
input and a monospaced font for textarea.

Can you post a URL so that we can see the surrounding HTML and CSS?
These will obviously have an impact and the default situation I've
described above may be further complicated by your code.

Steve
 
P

PeterMcC

Elliot Lewis wrote:
developers that could help me with a question I posted, not a lesson
on how you cannot guarantee that all people will have the same
browser (which of course I am aware of). Actually in this case I can
guarantee they will, as the site is for an intranet and the standard
is I.E. 6. It would have been more helpful to have answered the
question or not posted a reply at all.

A quick hint for future posts: it would have been more helpful to have
mentioned the intranet - that makes a huge difference to the nature of
likely replies since a great deal of what gets asked here does need a
response pointing out that the Internet is not a standardised environment.

The majority of posters asking the type of question posed by yourself are
not aware of the differences that browsers, monitors and personal
preferences can make - it is helpful to them and their visitors that replies
point out that it is impossible to get an exact duplication of a site's
appearance across all situations. As it happens, that didn't apply to you
but the respondents weren't aware of that.

There is a reasonable assumption hereabouts that questions refer to the
Internet unless othwise stated - had you been trying to get a match across
all platforms on the Internet, the advice given would have saved you hours
if not days of frustration.
 
H

Headless

William Tasso said:
How am I doing?

Let's find out. There is only one correct answer, attempts to cheat
result in failing the exam, you have 1 minute to complete it. When you
have finished, get up from your desk (without disturbing any of the
other examinees) and turn in your work to the exam supervisor at the
front of the hall. Smoking is not allowed, answers in HTML will be
discarded.

This is your exam question: Which part of the following text should be
quoted in a usenet follow-up:

I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.
I shall quote only those parts of a previous post that are directly
relevant to my reply.


Headless
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
473,744
Messages
2,569,483
Members
44,903
Latest member
orderPeak8CBDGummies

Latest Threads

Top