framed

Discussion in 'ASP .Net Web Controls' started by barret bonden, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. A client of mine has a young man who has written a web app (a CRM in dot.net
    1.1) using many frames .it looks good , but is hard to maintain, passing, as
    it does, parameters from one frame to the next. These parameters allow the
    synchronization of datagirds, leading to my technically naive question (as I've
    only played with VS 2003 ) : are frames at all necessary in a web app ? It
    seems to me that eliminating them would allow for the use of simpler
    variables to synch the datagrids ..
     
    barret bonden, Apr 27, 2006
    #1
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  2. You're right that frames can be difficult to use in ASP.NET. I try to avoid
    them and I suggest you do too.
    Usually you're better off using Master Pages or User controls to divide up
    logical sections of a page. These approaches are far more maintainable.

    --
    I hope this helps,
    Steve C. Orr, MCSD, MVP
    http://SteveOrr.net


    "barret bonden" <> wrote in message
    news:Ep34g.590$...
    >A client of mine has a young man who has written a web app (a CRM in
    >dot.net 1.1) using many frames .it looks good , but is hard to maintain,
    >passing, as it does, parameters from one frame to the next. These
    >parameters allow the synchronization of datagirds, leading to my
    >technically naive question (as I've only played with VS 2003 ) : are frames
    >at all necessary in a web app ? It seems to me that eliminating them would
    >allow for the use of simpler variables to synch the datagrids ..
    >
     
    Steve C. Orr [MVP, MCSD], Apr 28, 2006
    #2
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  3. barret bonden

    CMM Guest

    Although I agree with both yours and Steve C.'s observations concerning
    maintainability, Frames (properly implemented) still serve a very nice
    purpose in terms of UI design... when the application must behave more like
    a Desktop Application. How annoying would it be if everytime you scrolled a
    message in outlook, your Folder Tree scrolled up and disappeared?

    CRM apps are a good example of this. Some UI things are really only (easily)
    possible using frames. For instance, in a CRM app your navigation shortcuts
    are on the left side.... and you want them to ALWAYS be visible even if a
    huge grid is loaded on the right.

    You can replace frames using scrollable divs... but they introduce other
    problems- such as hard-to-pin-down placement settings so as not to trigger
    the browser's built-in scrollbars (which creates a highly confusing
    user-unfriendly UI experience) and, of course, cross-browser compatibility
    issues.

    I think that, properly used and for certain applications, frames should not
    be dismissed outright. At least not until the browser makers squash all the
    anomolies with scrollable divs and abs placement quirks.

    --
    -C. Moya
    www.cmoya.com
    "barret bonden" <> wrote in message
    news:Ep34g.590$...
    >A client of mine has a young man who has written a web app (a CRM in
    >dot.net 1.1) using many frames .it looks good , but is hard to maintain,
    >passing, as it does, parameters from one frame to the next. These
    >parameters allow the synchronization of datagirds, leading to my
    >technically naive question (as I've only played with VS 2003 ) : are frames
    >at all necessary in a web app ? It seems to me that eliminating them would
    >allow for the use of simpler variables to synch the datagrids ..
    >
     
    CMM, Apr 28, 2006
    #3
  4. You've got some good points, but luckily AJAX has come along to solve most
    of the problems you've mentioned.

    Here's more info:
    http://SteveOrr.net/articles/AJAX.aspx

    --
    I hope this helps,
    Steve C. Orr, MCSD, MVP
    http://SteveOrr.net



    "CMM" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Although I agree with both yours and Steve C.'s observations concerning
    > maintainability, Frames (properly implemented) still serve a very nice
    > purpose in terms of UI design... when the application must behave more
    > like a Desktop Application. How annoying would it be if everytime you
    > scrolled a message in outlook, your Folder Tree scrolled up and
    > disappeared?
    >
    > CRM apps are a good example of this. Some UI things are really only
    > (easily) possible using frames. For instance, in a CRM app your navigation
    > shortcuts are on the left side.... and you want them to ALWAYS be visible
    > even if a huge grid is loaded on the right.
    >
    > You can replace frames using scrollable divs... but they introduce other
    > problems- such as hard-to-pin-down placement settings so as not to trigger
    > the browser's built-in scrollbars (which creates a highly confusing
    > user-unfriendly UI experience) and, of course, cross-browser compatibility
    > issues.
    >
    > I think that, properly used and for certain applications, frames should
    > not be dismissed outright. At least not until the browser makers squash
    > all the anomolies with scrollable divs and abs placement quirks.
    >
    > --
    > -C. Moya
    > www.cmoya.com
    > "barret bonden" <> wrote in message
    > news:Ep34g.590$...
    >>A client of mine has a young man who has written a web app (a CRM in
    >>dot.net 1.1) using many frames .it looks good , but is hard to maintain,
    >>passing, as it does, parameters from one frame to the next. These
    >>parameters allow the synchronization of datagirds, leading to my
    >>technically naive question (as I've only played with VS 2003 ) : are
    >>frames at all necessary in a web app ? It seems to me that eliminating
    >>them would allow for the use of simpler variables to synch the datagrids
    >>..
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Steve C. Orr [MVP, MCSD], Apr 28, 2006
    #4
  5. barret bonden

    CMM Guest

    I'm by no means an expert in AJAX (yet! ;) ) but, I don't see what AJAX has
    to do with window positioning and layout. For instance, Outlook Web Access
    2003 would not have the UI that it does without frames. Check it out for
    yourself.

    I guess it would make *working* with frames easier? I don't know. But it
    doesn't replace them (in the way scrollable divs promises to but has yet to
    deliver on).

    --
    -C. Moya
    www.cmoya.com
     
    CMM, Apr 28, 2006
    #5
  6. I must agree with you that there are some scrolling situations where I would
    still consider using frames, but that's rare... I haven't had to use them
    for years and that makes me happy.

    AJAX allows pieces of the page to refresh independently of the page itself,
    thus gaining the main performance efficiency that frames has to offer
    without having to use frames.

    --
    I hope this helps,
    Steve C. Orr, MCSD, MVP
    http://SteveOrr.net



    "CMM" <> wrote in message
    news:OU%...
    > I'm by no means an expert in AJAX (yet! ;) ) but, I don't see what AJAX
    > has to do with window positioning and layout. For instance, Outlook Web
    > Access 2003 would not have the UI that it does without frames. Check it
    > out for yourself.
    >
    > I guess it would make *working* with frames easier? I don't know. But it
    > doesn't replace them (in the way scrollable divs promises to but has yet
    > to deliver on).
    >
    > --
    > -C. Moya
    > www.cmoya.com
    >
     
    Steve C. Orr [MVP, MCSD], Apr 29, 2006
    #6
  7. barret bonden

    CMM Guest

    I agree. My point was for web apps that must behave like desktop apps
    (Outlook Web Access 2003 is a perfect example) with different scrolling
    regions. For them, frames are still a necessity. I'm having to write one
    right now... where desktop app experience is the main goal. After much
    (much!) experimentation.... frames were the only solution.


    --
    -C. Moya
    www.cmoya.com
    "Steve C. Orr [MVP, MCSD]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I must agree with you that there are some scrolling situations where I
    >would still consider using frames, but that's rare... I haven't had to use
    >them for years and that makes me happy.
    >
    > AJAX allows pieces of the page to refresh independently of the page
    > itself, thus gaining the main performance efficiency that frames has to
    > offer without having to use frames.
    >
    > --
    > I hope this helps,
    > Steve C. Orr, MCSD, MVP
    > http://SteveOrr.net
    >
    >
    >
    > "CMM" <> wrote in message
    > news:OU%...
    >> I'm by no means an expert in AJAX (yet! ;) ) but, I don't see what AJAX
    >> has to do with window positioning and layout. For instance, Outlook Web
    >> Access 2003 would not have the UI that it does without frames. Check it
    >> out for yourself.
    >>
    >> I guess it would make *working* with frames easier? I don't know. But it
    >> doesn't replace them (in the way scrollable divs promises to but has yet
    >> to deliver on).
    >>
    >> --
    >> -C. Moya
    >> www.cmoya.com
    >>

    >
    >
     
    CMM, Apr 29, 2006
    #7
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