T
Travis Newbury
rf said:What about your most important visitor: googlebot?
You are making the assumption that a ranking in Google is important.
rf said:What about your most important visitor: googlebot?
Mark said:That depends on what functionality the frames provide that you want to
replace.
There are a couple of common reasons people use frames. The first reason
is so that they only have to update 1 file e.g. for their menu. The link
Adrienne provided explains various other solutions for that. The other
main reason is so that the navigation or header stays on the screen all
the time (i.e. scrolls separately from the body). This can be achieved
through CSS and position: fixed; (IE doesn't support it, but there are
Javascript workarounds).
What do your frames do that you want to know how to replace (if not one
of the above)?
Not a problem with a well-designed frame-based site:rf said:What about your most important visitor: googlebot?
An excellent example of a framed site, and one that many people need toAlan said:It is possible to have a framed site like this, and to enable a
reasonably knowledgable user to bookmark the safety measures page for
isobutanol.
My chemical site uses some framed indexes, but has a "No frames" link
on each data sheet. Click the link and you have a complete page that
can be bookmarked in any browser that supports bookmarking.
<http://www.alanwood.net/pesticides/index_cn_frame.html>
WCB said:I have noticed this on a few sites. Now I understand.
It seem then that the guys who use frames should
be sure to have a next, previous, home link explicitly
working.
So its not then exactly a frame problem, but failure
to use frames right. Or am I not understanding this?
WCB said:I am just getting into HTML. I want to learn to use best practices,
at a fairly professional level.
As far as I can see, the main issue with
frames is...
CSS sheets are in, the rest seems to be a big nest of gotchyas no matter
what you do.
From: jake said:An excellent example of a framed site, and one that many people need to take
time out to study.
Travis said:"Professional Level" is in the eyes of the beholder. Look out for
people that say the words "Never" or "Always" They are usually your
fringe professionals that wear blinders to anything that does not
completely agree with their thoughts.
Like everything else, frames have their place. Each project you work on
will dictate what is right and what is wrong.
The only reason for this is that none of the browsers seem to do it the
same way. Again, the individual project will dictate how this will come
into play.
There is lots a great advice here. But remember it is only advice.
Learn for your self. Look at what others are doing. Look at what seem
to be trends in web development.
WCB said:Basically, I want to avoid stuff that that would make somebody hiring
rolls their eyes and think "Well no.. amateur"
And I want to avoid working hard to learn something I will some day
have to unlearn.
With neither quill nor qualm said:What about your most important visitor: googlebot?
Neredbojias said:With neither quill nor qualm, WCB quothed
As for browsers-in-use, I'd say less than 1%. All even halfway-modern
graphical browsers anyone's ever heard of support frames.
Travis said:Have a good solid understanding of HTML, CSS, client scripting, and some
flavor of Server scripting. Everything else will fall into place. As
far as specifics go, look at the kinds of sites representing the places
you will someday want to work. What do they do?
Yes. Like I say though, I want to avoid learning something I will have to
unlearn.
That is always the hard way. "Geeze! If I had only known!"
Try telling Sagem that the web browser built into my mobile phone is a
decade out of date, and that it should be ignoring the fact that framed
layouts don't work well on such a small screen.
And notice also your own words: _graphical_ browsers. OK, so there's no
real reason browsers like Lynx and Braille devices can't be made to
support frames, but the concept doesn't make much sense to a speech
synthesiser....
Neredbojias said:With neither quill nor qualm, Stewart Gordon quothed
I'm not quite sure what you're saying, but if you view each
"possibility" of a frames page as a separate page, what's the
difference? That's the real problem with frames: the address/url, and
the only significant problem I can see.
Do you mean such UAs should just display one frame at a time and provide
a means of switching between them?
Neredbojias said:With neither quill nor qualm, Stewart Gordon quothed
No. Let me exemplify.
Here's how I might do a frames system if I
wanted to be "proper".
Take a page with 3 frames:
1. The logo, same all the time.
2. Nav bar/column to call up the content, also the same all the time.
3. The content frame, receiving the results of the nav links.
When I click a link, it either:
a. Targets a whole new frames page with only the url of the 3rd frame
different, or -
b. Targets the same frames page with a query string loading the
correct content page into the 3rd frame via server-side scripting or
javascript.
This (these) ways, the address of the frames page is different for each
possible variation of content and no url-bookmarking anomalies would
exist.
True. However, some of the benefits of frames are lost:
1. It becomes necessary to have several versions of the frameset page,
taking up more space on your server and in the user's cache.
2. The browser must fetch two html files each time a link is followed,
which can slow things down a bit.
3. It adds to the duplication of effort involved in creating an unframed
version as well for those who do browse using Lynx or a mobile phone.
4. It becomes tricky to link to fragments. Suppose you want to provide
a navigation frame with links to various parts of various pages. Unless
you create a frameset for each _fragment_ of a page, changing the whole
frameset at once won't achieve this. Unless you pass the fragment ID as
a query string in the frameset URL itself, and rely on either
JavaScript (which will always shut out and/or annoy some users) or
server-side scripting (which will add to your server load and prevent
people from browsing your site offline) to pass it on.
5. Some kinds of interactive sites can certainly benefit from being able
to switch some frames without resetting the state of others.
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