Frames in ASP.NET

[Mark]

Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and another
on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Anoj]

Hi Mark,

There is nothing to do with ASP.NET if you want to put frames, you can
define frames using smple HTML.
Check how to create frames here : http://www.w3schools.com/HTML/html_frames.asp


/Anoj
[www.TheTechHub.com]

 

[Junior]

Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for
ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is generally considered the best way
to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset using a
Frame as a fixed header with a scrolling Frame of columnar data below it.
Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve I or
others may have better suggestions

 

[Mark]

Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet development
environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new page
on another frame without reloading the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.

 

[Eliyahu Goldin]

You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in a
iframe control.Alternatively you can look into Ajax-based solutions, depends
on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net

 

[Junior]

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree
AJAX will support what is wanted by refreshing a portion og the page without
a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages should be
considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as AJAX can
drag down performance if not used sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not
everything that has been created has proven to be usefull in --all--
circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying to beat
the stateless model of the web is a no-win compromise for the same reasons.

You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in a
iframe control.Alternatively you can look into Ajax-based solutions,
depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net

Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
development environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is not
supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new
page on another frame without reloading the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.

 

[Scott M.]

Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate
against.

Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to
provide.

-Scott

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree
AJAX will support what is wanted by refreshing a portion og the page
without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages
should be considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly
as AJAX can drag down performance if not used sparingly. Like iFrames and
Framesets not everything that has been created has proven to be usefull
in --all-- circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think
trying to beat the stateless model of the web is a no-win compromise for
the same reasons.

You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in
a iframe control.Alternatively you can look into Ajax-based solutions,
depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net

Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
development environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is not
supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new
page on another frame without reloading the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for
ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is generally considered the
best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search
engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset
using a Frame as a fixed header with a scrolling Frame of columnar data
below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve
I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Juan T. Llibre]

ere:
!> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.
!> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.

What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

???

Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.

Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.

-Scott

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree AJAX will support what is wanted by
refreshing a portion og the page without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages should be
considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as AJAX can drag down performance if not used
sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been created has proven to be usefull in --all--
circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying to beat the stateless model of the web is a no-win
compromise for the same reasons.

You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in a iframe control.Alternatively you can look
into Ajax-based solutions, depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net


Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet development environment(Visual Studio). It says
"element Frameset is not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new page on another frame without reloading the
menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is
generally considered the best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a
scrolling Frame of columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Scott M.]

You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work properly.
Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.

ere:
!> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.
!> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to
provide.

What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

???

Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.

Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used
to provide.

-Scott

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree
AJAX will support what is wanted by refreshing a portion og the page
without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages
should be considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very
sparingly as AJAX can drag down performance if not used sparingly. Like
iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been created has proven to
be usefull in --all-- circumstances and tends to get overused.
Personally, I think trying to beat the stateless model of the web is a
no-win compromise for the same reasons.

message You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page
in a iframe control.Alternatively you can look into Ajax-based
solutions, depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net


Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
development environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is
not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a
new page on another frame without reloading the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for
ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is generally considered the
best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search
engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset
using a Frame as a fixed header with a scrolling Frame of columnar
data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to
achieve I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Junior]

Nobody has established why validation even matters when the browsers are so
loosey goosey anyway.
Same goes for the CSS vs Tables argument. So what?

So many websites are FUBAR and the framework generates tables when using the
controls that come from Microsoft making --most-- of the concern an exercise
in futility does it not? Where to draw the line?

You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work properly.
Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.

ere:
!> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.
!> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to
provide.

What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

???

Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.

Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used
to provide.

-Scott

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I
agree AJAX will support what is wanted by refreshing a portion og the
page without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at
MasterPages should be considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very
very sparingly as AJAX can drag down performance if not used sparingly.
Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been created has
proven to be usefull in --all-- circumstances and tends to get
overused. Personally, I think trying to beat the stateless model of the
web is a no-win compromise for the same reasons.

message You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page
in a iframe control.Alternatively you can look into Ajax-based
solutions, depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net


Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
development environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is
not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a
new page on another frame without reloading the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready
for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is generally considered
the best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor
search engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset
using a Frame as a fixed header with a scrolling Frame of columnar
data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to
achieve I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Juan T. Llibre]

re:
!>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
!> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
!> attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work properly.

Gee, I wonder why this frameset and its frames work properly :

http://asp.net.do/test/frameset/default.aspx

???

re:
!> Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.

VS 2008 validated the sample frameset I'm using as an example.
Look at the source for the default page...

It uses :
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

The moral of this story is : test, test and test,
if you are going to state that something doesn't work.

In this case, it does work.

The source for the test's files is attached as frameset.zip, so anybody can verify that :

1. The frameset does work properly
2. VS 2008 validates XHTML 1.0 Frameset

Thank you.

You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary attributes on the various tags to make the frames
actually work properly. Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.

ere:
!> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.
!> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.

What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

???

Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.

Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.

-Scott

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree AJAX will support what is wanted by
refreshing a portion og the page without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages should be
considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as AJAX can drag down performance if not used
sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been created has proven to be usefull in --all--
circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying to beat the stateless model of the web is a
no-win compromise for the same reasons.

You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in a iframe control.Alternatively you can
look into Ajax-based solutions, depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net


Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet development environment(Visual Studio). It says
"element Frameset is not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new page on another frame without reloading
the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is
generally considered the best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a
scrolling Frame of columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Eliyahu Goldin]

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets.
Don't know much about framesets, but iframes still have their place. I would
not hesitate using them if they fit into the design.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree
AJAX will support what is wanted by refreshing a portion og the page
without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages
should be considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly
as AJAX can drag down performance if not used sparingly. Like iFrames and
Framesets not everything that has been created has proven to be usefull
in --all-- circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think
trying to beat the stateless model of the web is a no-win compromise for
the same reasons.

You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in
a iframe control.Alternatively you can look into Ajax-based solutions,
depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net

Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
development environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is not
supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new
page on another frame without reloading the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for
ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is generally considered the
best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search
engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset
using a Frame as a fixed header with a scrolling Frame of columnar data
below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve
I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Scott M.]

You continue to amaze me Jaun. Your sarcastic tone just screams how
ignorant you can be to other points of view.

Didn't I say that you'd run into a quagmire when you attempt to use various
attributes of the frame and frameset tags that you might need in order to
get the frames to work as desired? I'm pretty sure I did. Seeing that you
made an example that does not make use of all the various tag attributes
that relate to frames, I'm not surprised that your example doesn't show what
I was referring to.

Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate" are
two different things.The W3C has designed the XHTML Frameset spec. such that
you can have one, but in some circumstances, not both. This is what I'm
addressing. Your "example" does not address this at all.

Also, I'm quite sure that you changed the DOCTYPE used in the code, since VS
provides the XHTML 1.0 DOCTYPE by default. So again, you aren't really
addressing anything that I said.

But thanks for your replies, because everytime I rebuild my machine, I
forget to put you back on the <plonk> list. Your messages just reminded me
to do it again.

re:
!>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
!> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
!> attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work
properly.

Gee, I wonder why this frameset and its frames work properly :

http://asp.net.do/test/frameset/default.aspx

???

re:
!> Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.

VS 2008 validated the sample frameset I'm using as an example.
Look at the source for the default page...

It uses :
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

The moral of this story is : test, test and test,
if you are going to state that something doesn't work.

In this case, it does work.

The source for the test's files is attached as frameset.zip, so anybody
can verify that :

1. The frameset does work properly
2. VS 2008 validates XHTML 1.0 Frameset

Thank you.

You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
attributes on the various tags to make the frames
actually work properly. Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0
Frameset.

ere:
!> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.
!> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to
provide.

What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

???





Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.

Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames
used to provide.

-Scott

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I
agree AJAX will support what is wanted by
refreshing a portion og the page without a noticeable PostBack but I
also think looking at MasterPages should be
considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as
AJAX can drag down performance if not used
sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been
created has proven to be usefull in --all--
circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying to
beat the stateless model of the web is a
no-win compromise for the same reasons.

message
You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page
in a iframe control.Alternatively you can
look into Ajax-based solutions, depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net


Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
development environment(Visual Studio). It says
"element Frameset is not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a
new page on another frame without reloading
the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready
for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is
generally considered the best way to create a web site that is not
user friendly nor search engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a
Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a
scrolling Frame of columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are
ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to
achieve I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[SteveT]

Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet development
environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new page
on another frame without reloading the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.

This is a great opportunity for you to use a masterpage with your
menus in it. Then create your web pages using the masterpage.

New to .Net? Here are some great tutorials to get you started:
http://www.asp.net/learn/data-access If you work through the first
20 or so of these tutorials, you'll be answering questions here.


Steve T.

 

[Juan T. Llibre]

re:
!> Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate" are two different things.

The frames work *and* the code validates.

re:
!> everytime I rebuild my machine, I forget to put you back on the <plonk> list

Just make sure to use the same email address every time you rebuild,
so that my bozo bin catches the same name.

<replonk>

You continue to amaze me Jaun. Your sarcastic tone just screams how ignorant you can be to other points of view.

Didn't I say that you'd run into a quagmire when you attempt to use various attributes of the frame and frameset tags
that you might need in order to get the frames to work as desired? I'm pretty sure I did. Seeing that you made an
example that does not make use of all the various tag attributes that relate to frames, I'm not surprised that your
example doesn't show what I was referring to.

Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate" are two different things.The W3C has designed
the XHTML Frameset spec. such that you can have one, but in some circumstances, not both. This is what I'm
addressing. Your "example" does not address this at all.

Also, I'm quite sure that you changed the DOCTYPE used in the code, since VS provides the XHTML 1.0 DOCTYPE by
default. So again, you aren't really addressing anything that I said.

But thanks for your replies, because everytime I rebuild my machine, I forget to put you back on the <plonk> list.
Your messages just reminded me to do it again.

re:
!>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
!> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
!> attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work properly.

Gee, I wonder why this frameset and its frames work properly :

http://asp.net.do/test/frameset/default.aspx

???

re:
!> Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.

VS 2008 validated the sample frameset I'm using as an example.
Look at the source for the default page...

It uses :
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

The moral of this story is : test, test and test,
if you are going to state that something doesn't work.

In this case, it does work.

The source for the test's files is attached as frameset.zip, so anybody can verify that :

1. The frameset does work properly
2. VS 2008 validates XHTML 1.0 Frameset

Thank you.

You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary attributes on the various tags to make the frames
actually work properly. Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.


ere:
!> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.
!> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.

What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

???





Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08 validate against.

Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to provide.

-Scott

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I agree AJAX will support what is wanted by
refreshing a portion og the page without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at MasterPages should be
considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as AJAX can drag down performance if not used
sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been created has proven to be usefull in --all--
circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying to beat the stateless model of the web is a
no-win compromise for the same reasons.

You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page in a iframe control.Alternatively you can
look into Ajax-based solutions, depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net


Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet development environment(Visual Studio). It says
"element Frameset is not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a new page on another frame without reloading
the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames
is
generally considered the best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor search engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a
scrolling Frame of columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to achieve I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Scott M.]

....and of course you didn't read my message beacuse your still talking about
the simple frames you built, which don't reproduce the scenario I was
describing.

If you actually READ my message, you'd sound like you know what you're
talking about, but you didn't so....

re:
!> Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate"
are two different things.

The frames work *and* the code validates.

re:
!> everytime I rebuild my machine, I forget to put you back on the <plonk>
list

Just make sure to use the same email address every time you rebuild,
so that my bozo bin catches the same name.

<replonk>

You continue to amaze me Jaun. Your sarcastic tone just screams how
ignorant you can be to other points of view.

Didn't I say that you'd run into a quagmire when you attempt to use
various attributes of the frame and frameset tags that you might need in
order to get the frames to work as desired? I'm pretty sure I did.
Seeing that you made an example that does not make use of all the various
tag attributes that relate to frames, I'm not surprised that your example
doesn't show what I was referring to.

Also, getting the frames to "work" and getting the code to "validate" are
two different things.The W3C has designed the XHTML Frameset spec. such
that you can have one, but in some circumstances, not both. This is what
I'm addressing. Your "example" does not address this at all.

Also, I'm quite sure that you changed the DOCTYPE used in the code, since
VS provides the XHTML 1.0 DOCTYPE by default. So again, you aren't
really addressing anything that I said.

But thanks for your replies, because everytime I rebuild my machine, I
forget to put you back on the <plonk> list. Your messages just reminded
me to do it again.

re:
!>> What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :
!> You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
!> attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work
properly.

Gee, I wonder why this frameset and its frames work properly :

http://asp.net.do/test/frameset/default.aspx

???

re:
!> Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.

VS 2008 validated the sample frameset I'm using as an example.
Look at the source for the default page...

It uses :
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

The moral of this story is : test, test and test,
if you are going to state that something doesn't work.

In this case, it does work.

The source for the test's files is attached as frameset.zip, so anybody
can verify that :

1. The frameset does work properly
2. VS 2008 validates XHTML 1.0 Frameset

Thank you.




You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
attributes on the various tags to make the frames
actually work properly. Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML
1.0 Frameset.


ere:
!> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.
!> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to
provide.

What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

???





Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.

Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames
used to provide.

-Scott

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I
agree AJAX will support what is wanted by
refreshing a portion og the page without a noticeable PostBack but I
also think looking at MasterPages should be
considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very very sparingly as
AJAX can drag down performance if not used
sparingly. Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been
created has proven to be usefull in --all--
circumstances and tends to get overused. Personally, I think trying
to beat the stateless model of the web is a
no-win compromise for the same reasons.

in message
You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new
page in a iframe control.Alternatively you can
look into Ajax-based solutions, depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net


Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
development environment(Visual Studio). It says
"element Frameset is not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show
a new page on another frame without reloading
the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready
for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is
generally considered the best way to create a web site that is
not user friendly nor search engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a
Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a
scrolling Frame of columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets
are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to
achieve I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left
and another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Scott M.]

Nobody has established why validation even matters when the browsers are
so loosey goosey anyway.

I'm not sure that this statement is in any way true. While today's browsers
may not perform validation, much of the content that is delivered to them is
dynamically generated and for that to work reliably, you need statndards.

Same goes for the CSS vs Tables argument. So what?

Because Framesets represent a different situation than tables vs. CSS.
Tables are still fully supported by the W3C, framesets are not.

So many websites are FUBAR and the framework generates tables when using
the controls that come from Microsoft making --most-- of the concern an
exercise in futility does it not? Where to draw the line?

I would argue that unless and until we get good standards, those sites will
continue to be FUBAR and standards are the only way to resolve that.

You get stuck in a quagmire since it doesn't support the necessary
attributes on the various tags to make the frames actually work properly.
Not to mention that VS doesn't validate XHTML 1.0 Frameset.

ere:
!> Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.
!> people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames used to
provide.

What happens if you use the XHTML 1.0 Frameset dtd :

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-frameset.dtd">

???





Framesets are not supported in XHTML 1.0, which is what VS 2005/08
validate against.

Generally, people tend to use CSS and DHTML to simulate what frames
used to provide.

-Scott

I avoid iFrames like the plague for the same reason as Framesets. I
agree AJAX will support what is wanted by refreshing a portion og the
page without a noticeable PostBack but I also think looking at
MasterPages should be considered. I would avoid AJAX though or use very
very sparingly as AJAX can drag down performance if not used sparingly.
Like iFrames and Framesets not everything that has been created has
proven to be usefull in --all-- circumstances and tends to get
overused. Personally, I think trying to beat the stateless model of the
web is a no-win compromise for the same reasons.

message You don't need to put the menu into a frame. Instead, show a new page
in a iframe control.Alternatively you can look into Ajax-based
solutions, depends on your task.

--
Eliyahu Goldin,
Software Developer
Microsoft MVP [ASP.NET]
http://msmvps.com/blogs/egoldin
http://usableasp.net


Thanks for the reply.
I have a HTML page with frames, but I cannot open it in Dotnet
development environment(Visual Studio). It says "element Frameset is
not supported".

If frames are not good then I am ready to remove it.
As a junior developer please suggest me how to do it?
I have one menu page with few hyperlinks. On click I want to show a
new page on another frame without reloading the menu page.
Let me know if it is possible or any other way to do it.

Please help this junior developer.
Thanks, Mark.


Frames are HTML and if you can't write HTML yet you are not ready
for ASP.NET. Furthermore, the use of Frames is generally considered
the best way to create a web site that is not user friendly nor
search engine friendly.

IMO Frames are only useful for very limited tasks such as a
Frameset using a Frame as a fixed header with a scrolling Frame of
columnar data below it. Otherwise? Framesets are ca-ca

As a neophyte though if you explain what you think you need to
achieve I or others may have better suggestions


Hi Guys,
I am very new to ASP.NET world.
I need to create three frames. One at the top, one on the left and
another on the right side.
I don't know how to do it. So please help me with it.

I'll appreciate any help/example you can provide.
I am using visual studio 2005.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Marc]

Nobody has established why validation even matters when the browsers are
so loosey goosey anyway.
Same goes for the CSS vs Tables argument. So what?

Not at all. CSS vs Frames is about laying out text in a symantec way... so
search engines and screen readers can make sense of them.

Marc