Frames page links

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Brian Robertson, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. Can anyone help with what is probably a simple question?

    I have a frames based page at
    http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/britishrailways1960

    I want to link to this page from other sites, but I want to be able to
    change what appears in the main frame, rather than it being the default
    home page. How do I do this?

    Brian.
    Brian Robertson, Apr 27, 2007
    #1
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  2. Brian Robertson

    Amos E Wolfe Guest

    "Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in message
    news:8SlYh.2335$...
    > Can anyone help with what is probably a simple question?
    >
    > I have a frames based page at
    > http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/britishrailways1960
    >
    > I want to link to this page from other sites, but I want to be able to
    > change what appears in the main frame, rather than it being the default
    > home page. How do I do this?
    >


    If you continue to use frames you will need to create a separate frameset
    page with different content in the main frame area. Other members of this
    group will no doubt be along shortly to advise you with a number of reasons
    why using frames is a bad idea.

    I would recommend using an alternative, such as server-side scripting. I use
    php which is extremely simple once you get the hang of a few basic commands.
    For example, this site http://www.jacomputers.co.uk/ has a header, footer
    and menu which stay the same, and the end of the url designates which page
    is to be loaded into the main area, as in this example
    http://www.jacomputers.co.uk/index.php?id=design

    There are many free resources on the Internet which can help you with
    learning php.
    Start here perhaps: http://snipurl.com/1iet4


    -=# Amos E Wolfe #=-
    Get Firefox: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=user/register&r=122394
    Amos E Wolfe, Apr 27, 2007
    #2
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  3. Amos E Wolfe wrote:
    > "Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in message
    > news:8SlYh.2335$...
    >> Can anyone help with what is probably a simple question?
    >>
    >> I have a frames based page at
    >> http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/britishrailways1960
    >>
    >> I want to link to this page from other sites, but I want to be able to
    >> change what appears in the main frame, rather than it being the default
    >> home page. How do I do this?
    >>

    >
    > If you continue to use frames you will need to create a separate frameset
    > page with different content in the main frame area. Other members of this
    > group will no doubt be along shortly to advise you with a number of reasons
    > why using frames is a bad idea.
    >
    > I would recommend using an alternative, such as server-side scripting. I use
    > php which is extremely simple once you get the hang of a few basic commands.
    > For example, this site http://www.jacomputers.co.uk/ has a header, footer
    > and menu which stay the same, and the end of the url designates which page
    > is to be loaded into the main area, as in this example
    > http://www.jacomputers.co.uk/index.php?id=design
    >
    > There are many free resources on the Internet which can help you with
    > learning php.
    > Start here perhaps: http://snipurl.com/1iet4
    >
    >
    > -=# Amos E Wolfe #=-
    > Get Firefox: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=user/register&r=122394
    >
    >


    Thanks for taking the trouble to reply and I agree that frames are a
    poor answer to the problem of layout BUT it is an answer that I largely
    understand and right now the content of the site itself is taking up all
    my time, running into well over 1,000 pages that all need a lot of work
    doing on them. In time, as I near completion in the information that I
    am presenting, I will certainly try to look for other solutions.

    I think you are missunderstanding my problem though. I want to include
    links to my website from outside, say on Wikipedia. So I want the same
    top frame to appear and the same menu in the left frame, but I don't
    want people to have to navigate from my main page through to the
    relevant article. So in an article about, for instance, a station in
    Manchester called Guide Bridge, I want the link to be
    http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/british railways 1960 and then something
    else to overide the instruction to put indexmain.html into the main
    frame and to instead put the page relevant to Guide Bridge. Does this
    make sense? I am probably explaining this badly.

    Thanks anyway.

    Brian.
    Brian Robertson, Apr 27, 2007
    #3
  4. Brian Robertson

    John Hosking Guest

    Brian Robertson wrote:
    > Amos E Wolfe wrote:
    >> "Brian Robertson" <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote in message
    >> news:8SlYh.2335$...
    >>>
    >>> I have a frames based page at
    >>> http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/britishrailways1960
    >>>

    >>
    >> If you continue to use frames you will need to create a separate
    >> frameset page with different content in the main frame area. Other
    >> members of this group will no doubt be along shortly to advise you
    >> with a number of reasons why using frames is a bad idea.
    >>
    >> I would recommend using an alternative, such as server-side scripting.
    >>

    >
    > Thanks for taking the trouble to reply and I agree that frames are a
    > poor answer to the problem of layout BUT it is an answer that I largely
    > understand and right now the content of the site itself is taking up all
    > my time, running into well over 1,000 pages that all need a lot of work
    > doing on them. In time, as I near completion in the information that I
    > am presenting, I will certainly try to look for other solutions.
    >
    > I think you are missunderstanding my problem though. I want to include
    > links to my website from outside, say on Wikipedia. So I want the same
    > top frame to appear and the same menu in the left frame, but I don't
    > want people to have to navigate from my main page through to the
    > relevant article. So in an article about, for instance, a station in
    > Manchester called Guide Bridge, I want the link to be
    > http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/british railways 1960 and then something
    > else to overide the instruction to put indexmain.html into the main
    > frame and to instead put the page relevant to Guide Bridge.


    This is one of the reasons Frames Are Evil. Frames prevent sensible
    bookmarking, which equates to the same limitation you're facing, no
    direct linking to specific framed content.

    See for example Reason 0 at
    http://www.mattheerema.com/archive/exactly-why-are-frames-bad or
    "Bookmarking" at http://www.html-faq.com/htmlframes/?FramesAreEvil. The
    second reference especially shows that Amos did not misunderstand your
    problem, it's the only other way (besides SSI or disposing of the
    frames) to link directly to the page.

    --
    John
    John Hosking, Apr 27, 2007
    #4
  5. Brian Robertson wrote:

    > I think you are missunderstanding my problem though. I want to include
    > links to my website from outside, say on Wikipedia. So I want the same
    > top frame to appear and the same menu in the left frame, but I don't
    > want people to have to navigate from my main page through to the
    > relevant article. So in an article about, for instance, a station in
    > Manchester called Guide Bridge, I want the link to be
    > http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/british railways 1960 and then something
    > else to overide the instruction to put indexmain.html into the main
    > frame and to instead put the page relevant to Guide Bridge. Does this
    > make sense? I am probably explaining this badly.


    No Brian I think you are misunderstanding the situation, with frames
    externally linking or bookmarking specific site becomes nearly
    impossible because the outermost frame is only linkable. It is one of
    the *big* problems with frames. To overcome this limitation requires either

    A) Clever JavaScript processing which is a *bad* idea to depend on
    client-side scripting for navigation

    B) Server-side processing e.g.,
    www.conceptcrafts.co.uk?page=britishrailways1960

    The thing is either solution would require a *major overhaul* of your
    site and if your chose (B) server-side solution, the way you *should* do
    it, then you would not need the frames at all! You could use server-side
    to assemble the parts of the page, navigation banner and content,
    eliminating the *need* for frames.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Apr 27, 2007
    #5
  6. Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    > Brian Robertson wrote:
    >
    >> I think you are missunderstanding my problem though. I want to include
    >> links to my website from outside, say on Wikipedia. So I want the same
    >> top frame to appear and the same menu in the left frame, but I don't
    >> want people to have to navigate from my main page through to the
    >> relevant article. So in an article about, for instance, a station in
    >> Manchester called Guide Bridge, I want the link to be
    >> http://www.conceptcrafts.co.uk/british railways 1960 and then
    >> something else to overide the instruction to put indexmain.html into
    >> the main frame and to instead put the page relevant to Guide Bridge.
    >> Does this make sense? I am probably explaining this badly.

    >
    > No Brian I think you are misunderstanding the situation, with frames
    > externally linking or bookmarking specific site becomes nearly
    > impossible because the outermost frame is only linkable. It is one of
    > the *big* problems with frames. To overcome this limitation requires either
    >
    > A) Clever JavaScript processing which is a *bad* idea to depend on
    > client-side scripting for navigation
    >
    > B) Server-side processing e.g.,
    > www.conceptcrafts.co.uk?page=britishrailways1960
    >
    > The thing is either solution would require a *major overhaul* of your
    > site and if your chose (B) server-side solution, the way you *should* do
    > it, then you would not need the frames at all! You could use server-side
    > to assemble the parts of the page, navigation banner and content,
    > eliminating the *need* for frames.
    >


    Superb people. Yes, it was me that was getting the wrong end of the
    stick and now I understand exactly where I am at and the importance of
    dumping frames. How and when I can is another matter.

    Thanks again for answering my question and putting up with my dumbness.

    Brian.
    Brian Robertson, Apr 27, 2007
    #6
  7. Brian Robertson

    John Hosking Guest

    Brian Robertson wrote:
    >
    > Thanks again for answering my question and putting up with my dumbness.


    Don't worry; it won't happen again. ;-)

    --
    John
    John Hosking, Apr 27, 2007
    #7
  8. Brian Robertson

    dorayme Guest

    In article <IitYh.2563$>,
    Brian Robertson <brianrobertson@[nospam].com> wrote:

    > now I understand exactly where I am at and the importance of
    > dumping frames. How and when I can is another matter.


    In your case, I recommend, as a practical and quick first step to
    simply cast the whole site into a two col table, what you have in
    the left frame goes into the left col on each page, the right
    frame, of course, is replaced by the content into a right col.
    naturally, you will have to modify a few links but it is very
    easy work and the whole thing is greatly assisted by a good grasp
    of Search & Replace functions that come with good text editors.
    You can do a lot of this conversion out of frames automatically
    and quickly. Believe me, I have done it and was glad to be out of
    frames for a reasonable sized website a while back.

    When you have less time pressure, you can then look into getting
    rid of what many people will tell you is a (lesser than frames)
    evil: tables for layout. The next step, if you want to take it,
    is to later convert out of tables, a left floated navigation and
    right content is good if done carefully. But don't go there yet
    no matter what others say, you will get into time trouble.

    Your use of tables in your right frame is irrelevant to my advice
    here. But this one makeover will solve the problem you were
    facing about linking.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Apr 27, 2007
    #8
  9. Brian Robertson

    Neredbojias Guest

    On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:46:32 GMT Brian Robertson scribed:

    >> The thing is either solution would require a *major overhaul* of your
    >> site and if your chose (B) server-side solution, the way you *should*
    >> do it, then you would not need the frames at all! You could use
    >> server-side to assemble the parts of the page, navigation banner and
    >> content, eliminating the *need* for frames.
    >>

    >
    > Superb people. Yes, it was me that was getting the wrong end of the
    > stick and now I understand exactly where I am at and the importance of
    > dumping frames. How and when I can is another matter.


    I'd just like to add you might want to take a quick look at php because
    even minimal familiarity with that server-side scripting platform would
    solve your problem with or without frames.

    --
    Neredbojias
    He who laughs last sounds like an idiot.
    Neredbojias, Apr 28, 2007
    #9
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